cliftyhanger
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| posted on 7/3/16 at 12:06 PM |
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ST170 or 2.0 blacktop?
I plan to change my 1800 zetec next winter, so as usual want to get the planning bit done so I can start buying stuff (so it isn't as
painful!)
Currently have a very low miles 1800 silvertop with 2 litre cams, along with dunnell ECU and dunnell badged jenveys. Bought as a package from a poor
soul who had the misfortune to crash his car soon after it was built.
Pretty happy with it, but it lacks the mid range punch I was hoping for (in fact Paul Dunnell admitted 42mm jenveys would be better for that but at
the expense of absolute top end performance, though I doubt a std engine would be affected)
I was going to take the easy option. Crate 2.0 blacktop, and fit the dunnell stuff after having it re-programmed by dunnell. Total cost about £1k
However, the ST170 conversion is very tempting. The extra power, and more importantly wider torque curve is very appealing.
Downsides, not a new engine, though they do seem pretty hardy. But the big one is that the Dunnell ECU is locked so can't be remapped by
anybody, and won't control the VVT. So new ECU required.
That means financially I would be best off selling the engine etc as a package.
So, fitting an ST170 I "think" I would need an ecu that controls the VVT, there are a few.
A set of ITB's
Inlet manifold.
Am I right in assuming I can use the std st170 inlet manifold and injectors, then hose to attach a set of bike ITB's? If so that would be quite
simple.
Then once a base map loaded on the ecu, get it to a RR for a full mapping session.
Would I need a wideband sensor and controller?
At the moment I am thinking
engine £300 +£200 for new timing belt, maybe big ends/seals etc
ECU £600
ITB's £100
Mapping £400
Total about £1600, but my engine package should fetch £1200 or maybe a bit more? That makes it all a bit more "accessible!"
Have I missed anything?
If anybody can recommend particular ITB's, ECU or a mapper that would be great I am right down south, but happy to travel to somebody good.
And no rush, as nothing will get pulled out the car until early December.....
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big_wasa
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| posted on 7/3/16 at 12:28 PM |
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The st is a strong engine but by know means indistructable. I gave the scrap man two yesterday. As I ended up with two lemons on the trot.
A black top with some head work and a set of cams should reach 200bhp with the Dunnell package.
The st will do it with out the cams and head work or there abouts by either controlling or locking of the vvt.
Either way I wouldn't be getting rid of Jenveys in favour of bike tb's.
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 7/3/16 at 01:12 PM |
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That is the dilemma. I don't want a flat-out top end engine, I much prefer the mid-range grunt that more std cams produce. So happy to sacrifice
power for torque.
The dunnell ECU is probably worthless unless part of a package, unless somebody can re-map it (not holding my breath, I think they are locked up for a
reason!) And if I do go st170 then I will need to raise funds to buy a new ECU
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Ugg10
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| posted on 7/3/16 at 01:40 PM |
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£600 for the ecu may be optimistic if buying new, IIRC the only ones that can run it are Omex 710, DTA S60 and I think the Emerald has had a recent
tweak to allow it. You will need a new engine loom making up as well so add £100 for an unterminated flying lead version to your budget. The
alternative is the VCT controller which is £200 and then use any other non vct ecu. You can get the ST170 gong on the oem ecu but probably needs to
keep much of the iron/plastic work and sensors (MAF etc.) around the engine though.
There is also lots of debate as to whether you can control the VCT with an off/on/off mode aux output from and ECU. I have seen good results (Jenko on
here) on the Puma 1.7 engine which has a similar VCT but not sure it is Ok for this engine. Much of what I have read seems to say not (gain mid range
but loose loads of top end) but then a lot have not looked into turning the VCT off at high rpm and just use the off/on vtec type mode.
Other things to check will be the rotation of the water pump on these engines, may need an idle wheel adding to an impeller change, what you doing
about the sump, this may need shortening and I think there is a slight difference in the exhaust manifold position/shape that you may need to look
into as it may not be in the same position as your current one and assuming your exhaust manifold/system will be OK for the ST170 in terms of
primary/secondary size/length tuning. I would also budget for a new clutch kit whilst the engine/gearbox are apart.
[Edited on 7/3/16 by Ugg10]
---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 7/3/16 at 03:41 PM |
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http://motorsport-electronics.co.uk/me221-wire-in-ecu.html
That seems to do the job, whether it is any good is another matter! that is why I want to start thinking early on this engine swap.
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Ugg10
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| posted on 7/3/16 at 03:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
http://motorsport-electronics.co.uk/me221-wire-in-ecu.html
That seems to do the job, whether it is any good is another matter! that is why I want to start thinking early on this engine swap.
That's the one I eluded to in my response. Chester Sports Cars use it to good effect on their bike carb kit for the ST170 and the Puma 1.7
engine, they use it alongside a nodiz ecu to give you the spark in a bike carb setup - another alternative, think their kits are around £1k plus the
vct controller for nodiz ecu/manifold/re-jetted carbs/loom etc. may be worth dropping them a line as they also do throttle body set ups.
---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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kingster996
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| posted on 7/3/16 at 06:07 PM |
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I have an ST170 engine crated up and for sale. Also have hayabusa throttle bodies with trumpets& filter and inlet modded to suit
I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 7/3/16 at 06:20 PM |
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Patience!
Feel free to drop me a pm with details of condition and price, but in all honesty about 6 months too early. And 350 miles away.....
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big_wasa
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| posted on 7/3/16 at 07:11 PM |
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If it's not about the power then an st170 on standard management fits the bill and is cheap. Ecu can be had for £15. 
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