LocostBuilders - powered by XMB

duratec st170

kentmagpie - 26/4/15 at 07:55 PM

Hi guys,

I'm currently running the rule over a mk indy with this engine in it running megasquirt ecu roughly hitting 180bhp. I've owned 3 BECs now and am looking for a change. I don't wanna start an argument over what's better I just want some opinions and advice on what this setup may be like in comparison?
Thanks in advance

austin man - 26/4/15 at 08:28 PM

You will get close to 200 if you fit bigger throttle bodies and injectors ditch the cat etc get it mapped etc. Always a can of worms the BEC vs CEC I run a 1.8 silvertop on carbs with 2 litre cams thats around the 150 mark plenty for what I need would like ,ore when doing trackdays but cant warrant the cost

kentmagpie - 26/4/15 at 08:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by austin man
You will get close to 200 if you fit bigger throttle bodies and injectors ditch the cat etc get it mapped etc. Always a can of worms the BEC vs CEC I run a 1.8 silvertop on carbs with 2 litre cams thats around the 150 mark plenty for what I need would like ,ore when doing trackdays but cant warrant the cost

Due to the price work would be limited and therefore it'd be left as it is.

big-vee-twin - 26/4/15 at 09:04 PM

An ST170 is not a Duratec engine it is a Zetec with VVT.

austin man - 26/4/15 at 09:12 PM

you would still get 180 plus with a set up on the Rolling road get a set of bike carbs and use them as Throttle bodies

kentmagpie - 26/4/15 at 09:15 PM

quote:
Originally posted by big-vee-twin
An ST170 is not a Duratec engine it is a Zetec with VVT.

Well picked up I'd never even thought of that, I'll show you two different adverts it's been listed in. The first was the original sale from last year and the autotrader one is the current ad. I've just realised the current ad dies not say it's an ST170 but the original does:

http://www.uksportsandprestige.co.uk/used/mk/indy/r-kit-car-great-example/harrogate/north-yorkshire/15489559#

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201504082427554/sort/atcustom/postcode/br60ew/radius/1500/make/MK/model/indy_r/page/1/usedcars

I remembered the car and traced the current sales photos to find the trader that originally sold it to get more info. So where dies the 180 bhp figure come from? Am I right in saying a Duratec St punched out 150bhp?

big-vee-twin - 26/4/15 at 09:20 PM

Standard Duratec is 150hp.

That's s real nice car though

[Edited on 26/4/15 by big-vee-twin]

kentmagpie - 26/4/15 at 09:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by big-vee-twin
Standard Duratec is 150hp.

That's s real nice car though

[Edited on 26/4/15 by big-vee-twin]

Is it possible to squeeze an extra 30hp with just and ecu upgrade? What's the boost button as well? Never heard of this!!

snapper - 27/4/15 at 05:30 AM

Proper Duratec has inlet on the left exhaust on the right
You have the ST Zetec in that
Still a good engine and should give 167 bhp in standard form

kentmagpie - 27/4/15 at 06:48 AM

quote:
Originally posted by snapper
Proper Duratec has inlet on the left exhaust on the right
You have the ST Zetec in that
Still a good engine and should give 167 bhp in standard form

I'm confused as a simple image search on Google for duratec St engine shows a number of engine bays with exactly the same setup as that mk. So is that suggesting Ford bunged a load of duratec rocker covers on zetec engines?

threadbare wallet - 27/4/15 at 07:08 AM

Yes thats exactly what they did,they coukdnt have the performance model to be seen with "last years engine" so badged it as a duratec as well.its still a zetec but with vvt,not a bad thing just not as light as the " real" duratec.still a lot of gains to be had and a lot lot cheaper.

MikeRJ - 27/4/15 at 07:11 AM

quote:
Originally posted by kentmagpie

quote:
Originally posted by snapper
Proper Duratec has inlet on the left exhaust on the right
You have the ST Zetec in that
Still a good engine and should give 167 bhp in standard form

I'm confused as a simple image search on Google for duratec St engine shows a number of engine bays with exactly the same setup as that mk. So is that suggesting Ford bunged a load of duratec rocker covers on zetec engines?

Ford stuck Duratec stickers on virtually every engine they made.

For some inexplicable reason they have tried their hardest to confuse and complicate their engine names. The original Zetec was simple enough, but then they called the 1.6 Sigma engine a Zetec as well and then they used the Zetec name as a trim level badge. And then they developed the 2.0L/2.3L Duratec engine, and decided everything had to have a Duratec badge, including rattly old pushrod lumps with throwbacks to the 50's.

The ST170 is based on the iron blocked Zetec-E engine but with a redesigned head that includes variable valve timing. They were rather disappointing in the Focus, being miles behind the rival cars in terms of performance, but you can extract reasonable power from them. Dave Walker of PPC fame has written a few decent articles on this - properly controlling the VVC rather than just switching it on and off is very important to get the best out of them.

kentmagpie - 27/4/15 at 07:14 AM

quote:
Originally posted by threadbare wallet
Yes thats exactly what they did,they coukdnt have the performance model to be seen with "last years engine" so badged it as a duratec as well.its still a zetec but with vvt,not a bad thing just not as light as the " real" duratec.still a lot of gains to be had and a lot lot cheaper.

Ok well that's cleared that one up

so has anyone owned a CEC with this setup? Does anyone know how it goes in comparison to a BEC? I don't want to travel to see it and end up wasting his and my time.

kentmagpie - 27/4/15 at 07:18 AM

quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ

quote:
Originally posted by kentmagpie

quote:
Originally posted by snapper
Proper Duratec has inlet on the left exhaust on the right
You have the ST Zetec in that
Still a good engine and should give 167 bhp in standard form

I'm confused as a simple image search on Google for duratec St engine shows a number of engine bays with exactly the same setup as that mk. So is that suggesting Ford bunged a load of duratec rocker covers on zetec engines?

Ford stuck Duratec stickers on virtually every engine they made.

For some inexplicable reason they have tried their hardest to confuse and complicate their engine names. The original Zetec was simple enough, but then they called the 1.6 Sigma engine a Zetec as well and then they used the Zetec name as a trim level badge. And then they developed the 2.0L/2.3L Duratec engine, and decided everything had to have a Duratec badge, including rattly old pushrod lumps with throwbacks to the 50's.

The ST170 is based on the iron blocked Zetec-E engine but with a redesigned head that includes variable valve timing. They were rather disappointing in the Focus, being miles behind the rival cars in terms of performance, but you can extract reasonable power from them. Dave Walker of PPC fame has written a few decent articles on this - properly controlling the VVC rather than just switching it on and off is very important to get the best out of them.

I love the knowledge on this forum

mcerd1 - 27/4/15 at 07:51 AM

Search for 'ST170' on this forum, you'll find several people that have used them with various ways of controlling them

scutter - 27/4/15 at 07:58 AM

I had one before starting the V6 project, They are indeed Zetecs.

st engine

Mine ran a raised compression ratio, ported head, 1 3/4" primaries into a 2 1/4" system. GSXR throttle bodies running a Omex 500 ECU. Made 180hp, torque and power were great but had to make an airbox as I ran the VVC via a switched output from the ECU (only a simple ecu) and when it switched the intake noise used to get me black flagged for tripping the noise meters at Combe. You can see the rise in torque when the vvc kicks in at 2700, felt like a real shove on the road and your always above that on track, so it never really upset the car.

VVc

To get more from the engine it needed cams(pricey), better ECU for VVc control (also not cheap) and poss a cnc machined head (really expensive).

From reading not many ST170s made 170 in the Focus which is why the car always felt flat.

ATB Dan.

big-vee-twin - 27/4/15 at 08:23 AM

Ford used the name on a few engines the true Duratec is the HE look on Burton Power web site for info

coozer - 27/4/15 at 10:11 AM

Here you go... duratec ST, really a badged zetec E out of a Focus.

This made 166bhp on zx9r carbs, if id bothered to jet them properly it would have made more than:

178bhp on injection. Thousands spent installing injection for an extra 12bhp.. Doh. Like I said if only Id spent the money on setting the carbs up and buying a decent gearbox... Hindsight....

I simply used the megajolt (carbs) to switch the vvt then the shift light on the Omex. Never bothered with a true controller...

Now its had the vvt removed, the cam fixed and I think its making 206bhp, but its not in my hands now so cannot verify that one.

snakebelly - 27/4/15 at 10:27 AM

If you need to control the VVT properly then have a look at:

http://motorsport-electronics.co.uk/st170-vvt-control-cams-delete-vvt-pro.html

HTH

kentmagpie - 27/4/15 at 11:17 AM

This is all new to me as i've been a bec man. So what's people's views of the St running on a megasquirt ecu and the original fuel injection setup?

scutter - 27/4/15 at 11:29 AM

Great engine for the money, if a little limited. Have a read of Big_Wasa's thread int he fuel injection section.

Regards Dan.

kentmagpie - 27/4/15 at 03:12 PM

Thanks for all your input, as always you guys are so reliable for good info

Dave Bailey - 27/4/15 at 04:54 PM

I'm running one on a DTA ECU with full cam control... And throttle bodies.... Made just under 180 on the dyno.....

Dave B

DazBam - 30/4/15 at 11:06 AM

Iv got an MK Indy running the ST170 2.0 on ZX9R carbs with MegaJolt management. When I got the car it was running a bit rough and over fueling massively a lot of tweaking and dyno time later, 172.3bhp and running sweet as a nut and seriously moves, keeps up with my mates cbr600! The sound from the carbs is lovely too!

kentmagpie - 30/4/15 at 11:08 AM

quote:
Originally posted by DazBam
Iv got an MK Indy running the ST170 2.0 on ZX9R carbs with MegaJolt management. When I got the car it was running a bit rough and over fueling massively a lot of tweaking and dyno time later, 172.3bhp and running sweet as a nut and seriously moves, keeps up with my mates cbr600! The sound from the carbs is lovely too!

Thanks for that. I'm actually just gonna go and see the car in question

DazBam - 30/4/15 at 11:10 AM

Iv seen the advert a lot, it's been on eBay a while, does look very smart though!!

kentmagpie - 30/4/15 at 02:33 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DazBam
Iv seen the advert a lot, it's been on eBay a while, does look very smart

Sorry to disappoint guys but I won't be buying it. Bottom line is its not the same car in the advert on autotrader. The guy should've taken photos from now as it looks quite a lot more worn now and it's only been 6 months. It was a state as well. At least clean the car. Luckily i only travelled 30 mins to see it otherwise I'd have been seriously pissed. Oh well onto the next one

DazBam - 30/4/15 at 02:45 PM
Ah what a shame! Like I say it has been up for sale a while and that normally means something isn't right! For the price of it you would expect it to be exactly as it looked and was described, real shame! Good luck looking!!

kentmagpie - 30/4/15 at 03:03 PM
quote:
Originally posted by DazBam
Ah what a shame! Like I say it has been up for sale a while and that normally means something isn't right! For the price of it you would expect it to be exactly as it looked and was described, real shame! Good luck looking!!

I've not seen it on ebay which worries me as I may be missing cars
It looked so tatty in comparison. He's gonna have to drop the price alot to achieve a sale if he leaves it looking like it was. Thanks for the advice anyway

DazBam - 30/4/15 at 03:08 PM
Stoneleigh is normally very good for buying, often there's cars for sale there that arnt for sale online from what Iv seen! Might be a bit far from you but I'll be going if weather is good, if I'm there don't mind taking you out so you can see how they run!

kentmagpie - 30/4/15 at 03:24 PM
quote:
Originally posted by DazBam
Stoneleigh is normally very good for buying, often there's cars for sale there that arnt for sale online from what Iv seen! Might be a bit far from you but I'll be going if weather is good, if I'm there don't mind taking you out so you can see how they run!

I'm really gonna try and get to Stoneleigh on monday but can't guarantee anything. Would like to go up there for the pure reason of buying a car might take u up on that offer if I go

DazBam - 30/4/15 at 06:08 PM
Well worth it if you have not been before, if you've been before you will know already how good it is! Have gone every year! Just have fingers and toes crossed weather is going to be good!!! Yeh of course, got some nice roads around the area too so not a drama!

threadbare wallet - 1/5/15 at 05:39 AM
Did ya drive? Did it compare to a bec? Maybe its beeb the company trackday toy for 6months!

kentmagpie - 1/5/15 at 06:00 AM
quote:
Originally posted by threadbare wallet
Did ya drive? Did it compare to a bec? Maybe its beeb the company trackday toy for 6months!

I did give it a quick blast up the road. I didn't get to fully boot it but from what I felt I was nowhere near as savage as my BECs. But again I say I didn't get fo fully floor it for a prolonged period. Honestly I was so dissapointed by everything about it. Imo it's worth 6k possibly 7 tops