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Equinox Mirage build your own LMP sports racing car
equinoxms - 27/7/12 at 02:04 PM

I made this post in another thread, but, thought i ought to make it under it's own thread. I'll start adding further details as and when to this thread.

We've made a hint of this in a press release to Total Kit Car, but, as there are clearly some interested parties and the concept fits well with this forum here is what we are currently planning.

Equinox Products are currently designing and building a new sports racing car that can be used on road and track, using a space frame chassis, modern sports prototype bodywork and commonly avaialble (cheap) high performance donor vehicle. We are going to encourage people to build this car themselves in a similar way to the original Locost concept.

We are going to be releasing the chassis drawings for the new car, provisionally named the Equinox Mirage, so people can build the chassis etc themselves. We have a racing club prepared in principle to put on a single make championship for the new car. The projected cost for this type of build as a race car is £6,500.

We are proposing to release the details of the chassis etc in an article, and then the build of a car in a further article(s) published in a build diary on this forum, as well as a downloadable e-book from our website, or if they are keen one of the industry magazines.

Overall what we are hoping to achieve is a single make racing series like the Locost championship. Obviously it's very early days at the moment and nothing is cast in stone, but we've had some good feedback from a racing club on the basic principle.

Although I keep refering to the racing side of things, the car is going to be suitable for use as a road car, it's just the racing side seems to be coming together nicely with the overall concept at present.


bartonp - 27/7/12 at 02:19 PM

£250 - £6500 ... guess that's inflation!


big_wasa - 27/7/12 at 02:23 PM

A new project

[Edited on 27/7/12 by big_wasa]


bi22le - 27/7/12 at 03:53 PM

Photos?

Size of car?

Engine Choice?


AndyW - 27/7/12 at 04:26 PM

quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
A new project

[Edited on 27/7/12 by big_wasa]



Thought you might like that!! Sort the locost first!!


equinoxms - 27/7/12 at 04:50 PM

Details all in good time......

So impatient, what goods a project if it's all laid out with no suspense?

<<<<<<Photo
Size - 2 seater mid engined LMP


[Edited on 27/7/12 by equinoxms]


Slimy38 - 27/7/12 at 04:50 PM

This?

http://www.totalkitcar.com/2012/07/19/well-balanced/


designer - 27/7/12 at 05:38 PM

quote:

Details all in good time......



You have announced it too early then!

You are announcing to a small band of DIYers, why do it now if you can't give more info?


Ben_Copeland - 27/7/12 at 05:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by designer
quote:

Details all in good time......



You have announced it too early then!

You are announcing to a small band of DIYers, why do it now if you can't give more info?


Probably to gauge some sort of level of interest. No point in going full out on a new concept if no ones interested.


40inches - 27/7/12 at 07:37 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Ben_Copeland
quote:
Originally posted by designer
quote:

Details all in good time......



You have announced it too early then!

You are announcing to a small band of DIYers, why do it now if you can't give more info?


Probably to gauge some sort of level of interest. No point in going full out on a new concept if no ones interested.

Then again how can anyone express an interest if they know nothing about it? It's probably like a Spire or Sabre, but who knows?


zilspeed - 27/7/12 at 07:45 PM

Love to know how this will be made to work regarding transaxle etc.

Other than the Audi / VW one (correct config, very heavy) you're into Hewlands which aren't exactly road car boxes.

It would be a shame to saddle it with a transverse engine just for expediency.

Shall follow with interest.


ceebmoj - 27/7/12 at 09:29 PM

Subaru engine and box?


zilspeed - 27/7/12 at 09:58 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ceebmoj
Subaru engine and box?


Point taken.
It does dictate the chassis at the back though as it's fundamentally different to the "road going Sports 2000" that the website mentions as inspiration.

I'm just curious, that's all.


Mr C - 27/7/12 at 10:44 PM

Defo interested if its scooby based, got a spare engine waiting for a car, was thinking about throwing it in a Spire


ceebmoj - 27/7/12 at 11:01 PM

quote:
Originally posted by zilspeed
It does dictate the chassis at the back though as it's fundamentally different to the "road going Sports 2000" that the website mentions as inspiration.


Do you have a link to the web-sight?


zilspeed - 28/7/12 at 02:42 PM

From Total Kit Car

http://www.totalkitcar.com/2012/07/19/well-balanced/

"Buoyed by the reaction to their range of Haynes Roadster components, Equinox has begun the design study for a new car loosely based as a Sports 2000 racecar for the road. The chassis will be available as build it yourself plans as well as turnkey and it willí make use of a freely available, cheap and high performance donor that will have the whole industry asking why they didnít think of that firstí, according to the press release."


Not Anumber - 28/7/12 at 04:56 PM

It will be especially interesting if they make an IVA achievable/ road legal version. With it's use of readilly available fwd running gear and realistic projected build costs it has potential to be the next big thing if it delivers.


CNHSS1 - 29/7/12 at 09:02 AM

quote:
Originally posted by zilspeed
Love to know how this will be made to work regarding transaxle etc.

Other than the Audi / VW one (correct config, very heavy) you're into Hewlands which aren't exactly road car boxes.

It would be a shame to saddle it with a transverse engine just for expediency.

Shall follow with interest.


Lotus Elise and Noble are benchmark handling mid engine cars both of which use ex-FWD saloon car transverse pacakges. In the case of the Elise, the super light K series engine and road box is same as say a zetec and hewland


ceebmoj - 29/7/12 at 10:43 AM

So is there any real information on the car?


procomp - 30/7/12 at 06:42 PM

Hi

Having seen a set of regulations for this "one make championship" What i can say is that it is based around the Audi 1.8 turbo and trans axle setup. So not exactly going to be brilliant in performance.
However the interesting bit is that the guy behind it all is as he put in his Email. An ex F1 designer with vast experience in the world of locost and ties to Rally design.

Step forward Mr Darren George. That's assuming that 2 + 2 = 4

Cheers Matt


equinoxms - 30/7/12 at 08:20 PM

The basis of the design was actually begun several years ago with a couple of contract ex F1/Sportscar designers for a Sports 2000 project. It's a wholly Equinox project, and as any one in the correct racing circles know we have undertaken these sort of projects ourselves on several occasions, and will know well what design sources we have contact with.

We can't release any further details for it at the moment as we are in discussions with a magazine about releasing the designs via them and they are requiring that they are released potentially exclusively through their pages.

We'll update information on here weekly as the situation with the magazine becomes clearer.


Mr C - 30/7/12 at 09:07 PM

quote:
Originally posted by procomp
Hi

Having seen a set of regulations for this "one make championship" What i can say is that it is based around the Audi 1.8 turbo and trans axle setup. So not exactly going to be brilliant in performance.
However the interesting bit is that the guy behind it all is as he put in his Email. An ex F1 designer with vast experience in the world of locost and ties to Rally design.

Step forward Mr Darren George. That's assuming that 2 + 2 = 4

Cheers Matt



Lets not speculate here chap and chapesses, although I appreciate the tell tale signs are worrying, I'm sure that Equinox's proximity to Canterbury, procomp's description of a spire gtr and Mr George propensity to rip off other peoples products (tornado / GTForte) are nothing more than coincidence. I'm sure that equinox have the integrity to do this without the expert assistance of Mr George.


Wadders - 30/7/12 at 09:08 PM

No axe to grind at all here, but the reply to procomp's post reads like the answer a politician would give when trying to
avoid a specific question......very vauge.

So to clarify, ......

Does Darren George, formally of GTS tuning have any involvement or association with Equinox Products or this particular project?

A simple yes or no answer would be appropriate.

Al


Originally posted by equinoxms
The basis of the design was actually begun several years ago with a couple of contract ex F1/Sportscar designers for a Sports 2000 project. It's a wholly Equinox project, and as any one in the correct racing circles know we have undertaken these sort of projects ourselves on several occasions, and will know well what design sources we have contact with.

We can't release any further details for it at the moment as we are in discussions with a magazine about releasing the designs via them and they are requiring that they are released potentially exclusively through their pages.

We'll update information on here weekly as the situation with the magazine becomes clearer.



gallons perminute - 30/7/12 at 09:53 PM

Is this not the Ray sports 2000 project that never got up to speed ?


zilspeed - 30/7/12 at 09:59 PM

quote:
Originally posted by equinoxms
The basis of the design was actually begun several years ago with a couple of contract ex F1/Sportscar designers for a Sports 2000 project. It's a wholly Equinox project, and as any one in the correct racing circles know we have undertaken these sort of projects ourselves on several occasions, and will know well what design sources we have contact with.

We can't release any further details for it at the moment as we are in discussions with a magazine about releasing the designs via them and they are requiring that they are released potentially exclusively through their pages.

We'll update information on here weekly as the situation with the magazine becomes clearer.


Thanks for your additional info.

I'm sure all interested parties will appreciate this pic of Damian Griffin's Ray Sports 2000 which is clearly the car in the pic.

Hope the project works out for you.



equinoxms - 31/7/12 at 04:40 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Wadders


A simple yes or no answer would be appropriate.

Al




No.

You are correct the picture that I use as my avatar is the Ray that Damien used to own.
Equinox Products developed the Ray BR09sc in association with Ray Sports Car Developments Ltd.

I find it very unprofessional that a member of the commitee who is privy to information feels it appropriate to share it on a public forum with out our permission.

Equinox has released this press release early to obtain your constructive feedback, so I would appreciate it if you could re visit your earlier posts and be more constructive.

With your help we hope this will become a project to interest the home build community as well as the track community.


bi22le - 31/7/12 at 05:09 PM

Well I love the LMP style car and will certainly be looking heavily into that style of car over any other if I get the chance to ever build new. At the moment though, I am just learning how to reasemble the things I have dismantled!!

Good luck with the project. Its good to see that new products companies and ideas are flowing in this industry. It will keep the competition high and products fresh.


equinoxms - 31/7/12 at 05:31 PM

Thanks Bi22le.

Maybe if you get the chance one day you can drop in and see us, and check us and the project out.


franky - 31/7/12 at 05:46 PM

Well I hope it does take off. However if you search all or either Darren George / equinox mirage in google it'll bring this thread up, with all the crap that surrounds his other 'business' dealings and GTS. That'll do you no favours at all and will cost you sales from the off.

I hope for the sake of your project he's not part of it.


equinoxms - 31/7/12 at 05:59 PM

Precisely!


big_wasa - 31/7/12 at 06:39 PM

I am interested and looking forward to updates

[Edited on 31/7/12 by big_wasa]


Ben_Copeland - 31/7/12 at 07:03 PM

I dropped in to see Dave (Equinox) today about the progress of my bonnet for my Haynes Roadster tonight.

Was chatting to him about this thread and basically he'd like it if i said: Dave is very independent and whilst welcomes anyones opinion certainly wouldn't want or need any one elses external involvement.

You just need to check out the feedback on his haynes bodywork turn around time and customer service and that in itself should show there's clearly not any GTS influence lol.


SCAR - 31/7/12 at 07:12 PM

A nice idea as a variation on the locost theme but the claimed £6500 build cost is a bit of a worry. How much does it cost to build a competative locost (not to buy, to build)? I've done several costings on self build performance cars and cant see £6500 being realistic, hope I'm wrong, if so this could be our next project. Will watch with interest


ceebmoj - 31/7/12 at 09:54 PM

I feel that this thread is a good example of why the apple method of product launch works so well. Don't tell people untill you can tell people every thing.


Mr C - 1/8/12 at 06:29 AM

quote:
Originally posted by ceebmoj
I feel that this thread is a good example of why the apple method of product launch works so well. Don't tell people untill you can tell people every thing.


...and are able to deliver the whole product when promised.

Its good to hear that this is an independent venture, as I'm totally hacked off with companies that don't give a sh!t, definitely very interested for my next projec, depends on engine choice for me.


D Beddows - 1/8/12 at 09:25 AM

quote:

Equinox has released this press release early to obtain your constructive feedback, so I would appreciate it if you could re visit your earlier posts and be more constructive.



so basically - if any of us aren't going to say what a wonderful idea it is/I'll definitely buy one/thank you for being so wonderful we can p*ss off??....that seems to be what you're saying or at least how it comes across!!

No axe to grind whatsoever, lovely looking car and I do genuinely wish you all the best with it but imho you've not really done yourself any favours with this thread


coyoteboy - 1/8/12 at 10:28 AM

There's a difference between feedback and constructive feedback. One is "that's ugly and useless" and the other is "I don't like that nose is a bit blunt and the engine options are limited". I presume they'd be OK with the latter or this is just a spam thread to sell wares.

To be fair, to me 6.5K for a race-ready car isn't much, depending on spec. You can buy dampers that are half that price without trying.

[Edited on 1/8/12 by coyoteboy]


gallons perminute - 1/8/12 at 11:26 AM

Very interested in this project because I have been there and done it. Back in 1995 I designed a series of cars that I felt could be the basis for many things. First off I came up with a road car that I felt would be the match for anything out there. This was followed by a hillclimb/sprint version and then we had the race version. The minimilist bodywork of the road car progressed to the point where we had a full bodied LMP type car. I did not put it into production because of the hassle of running the company that would make the cars. Other issues, notably liability insurance, was also a major problem and I felt that it was not worth taking the risk (too much to lose).

In 2006 I was involved in the UK FF championship and crossed paths with the Sports 2000 guys on a few occasions. This looked like a good formula that was coming back into vogue and I used one of the chassis I had lying about as the basis of a Pinto powered Sports 2000. We spend very little, under £5k to get on track. I enjoyed the experience and decided to produce a better car for later years. For 2010 I managed to find the time to run the new car in all rounds of the championship. It was good fun but running on a shoe string and with myself behind the wheel (56 and 15.7st ) things were compromised. Despite limited testing we still finished 12th O/a and third in class. We wanted to do more but without warning and with no rules being breached the car was outlawed by the organisers as having " an unfair aerodynamic advantage". Those in charge changed the bodywork rules after 35 years which made the car illegal and rather spoiled our plans.

S 2000 is an excellent formula. The cars are fast bearing in mind the limited power they have 135bhp Pinto, 205bhp + Duratec. Lap times are very quick and they achieve this by being light and having good aerodynamics. Many manufacturers have built cars for the formula and it always interests me where the failed projects/redundant bodywork moulds end up. The bodywork from the Robinson S2000 ended up being the first Radical. The Lola B07 car became the basis of the Caterham SP300 and now the Ray BR09 bodywork appearing here.

You have asked for imput so here we go.

Make sure you are properly covered by insurance. Selling plans/parts/kits might reduce your liability but I in this day and age there are people out there chasing compensation for the silliest of reasons.

Make sure you have a consistant parts supply that will last for years. We once did an Audi 5cyl project that was a cracking car but parts for the engines were not cheap and difficult to source.

Understand the market place. The Locost car has spawned plenty of other vehicles but ask anyone what is the best and to a man I think most would opt for an original Lotus 7.

Is LMP the way to go? I think that style has had its day. Why not go for something that is different.

Think things through. As you have already found out folk want everything yesterday. Waiting lists are no use in these days. Even the big boys let nothing out the bag until they are ready to sell.

Finally I would suggest doing proper market research. Seek legal advice to keep you on the right side of the law on legislation and say nothing till everything is in place.

Good luck.


maccmike - 1/8/12 at 11:43 AM

keep us updated..


tadltd - 13/8/12 at 11:53 PM

...got the t-shirt, spent a LOT of money, went bust, etc, etc...

What you see as cynicism from the forum on here is something our company had to face too, but it's not cynicism. A lot of the people on here and other forums are very skilled and experienced and their comments are valid. You'd be mistaken to see them as "amateurs" who don't know what they're talking about...

You'd better get used to the comments, too - when we started we had to take some very harsh criticism and face up to some harsh truths and facts. As we found out (too late) actions speak louder than words. Let your car do the talking on the track and only when it's ready should you consider telling the world that it's available to buy.

For me the experience of doing it was a double edged sword. On the one side it was amazing to have a blank sheet of paper to start from, but the sharper edge was the reality of trying to start a business, with all the financial, professional, and personal implications of doing that and at a time when the track-day market was burgeoning and people had money to spend on "toys".

Given the overheads you will face, your pricing seems ambitious, to say the least. You will need to have good legal counsel to ensure you do not fall foul of legislation for road use (it's YOUR design after all - don't make the mistake of washing your hands of responsibility by allowing people to buy plans and build cars themselves). You will also need very good insurance - as others have already pointed out.

If this is your "get rich plan", I'd suggest considering other plans...


hobbsy - 14/8/12 at 04:11 AM

Can't argue with that last post, shame your business didn't go well Steve.

In my (very limited) experience there seem to be so many ways to spend a lot of money and not succeed in the kit car industry and very few ways in which to be profitable.

Even those that appear to do well probably don't do that well.

Big start up costs and investments of time but always quite a small market.

But if people didn't bother we wouldn't have so much to choose from.

I like the LMP style cars so am keen to see how this progresses.


angliamotorsport - 5/9/12 at 10:54 AM

Nice looking car and whilst it may not appeal to everyone it should excite quite a few.

I'm wondering how a track version can be built for 6.5K when your website is stating
the full body package will cost you 3.9K and if you add the vat that's a whopping 4.68K.

That only leaves 1820 pound to build the chassis and buy the other parts. I can't even see a roller being built for that amount unless the bodywork cost is reduced.

I am sure there will be lots of guys thinking if this can be built for 6.5 K then I'm in, me included, but not wanting to be unfair, I just can't see it being possible.

However if there is some magic formula I am willing to be convinced.

Good luck with the project


equinoxms - 3/11/12 at 09:24 AM

The chassis for the new Mirage is starting to go together you can follow this on our facebook page
http://www.facebook.com/EquinoxProducts

[img][/img]


Wheels244 - 3/11/12 at 10:41 AM

Can you do a full set of Locost panels including side panels ?
I can't find anyone who can supply the full set.


Mr C - 3/11/12 at 10:45 AM

Coming along nicely. Just a quick belated thank you to Dave for taking the time to talk to me and show me some products when I popped in to equinox the other day. Very reassuring in terms of quality of products and the approach and attitude of Dave and the company The quality and finish of the body panels is second to none, no flashing, swirls, or imperfections of any sort, absolutely top notch. I'll be following closely and hope to do some business next year.

All the best with the project

Mike


designer - 3/11/12 at 11:40 AM

I trust you have a lot more upright members to add, there are a lot of tubes meeting without any triangular support.


scootz - 3/11/12 at 12:29 PM

quote:
Originally posted by designer
I trust you have a lot more upright members to add, there are a lot of tubes meeting without any triangular support.




And the winner of todays rhetorical question award is....


Confused but excited. - 3/11/12 at 12:50 PM

quote:
Originally posted by designer
I trust you have a lot more upright members to add, there are a lot of tubes meeting without any triangular support.


"The chassis for the new Mirage is starting to go together " I think the key word here is 'starting'.


Ben_Copeland - 3/11/12 at 12:59 PM

quote:
Originally posted by designer
I trust you have a lot more upright members to add, there are a lot of tubes meeting without any triangular support.



Really??????


Mr C - 3/11/12 at 01:36 PM

Some people just can't help themselves can they...


equinoxms - 3/11/12 at 02:26 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Wheels244
Can you do a full set of Locost panels including side panels ?
I can't find anyone who can supply the full set.


Yes I know of a complete set of moulds i could probably borrow to make you a set with.


Wheels244 - 3/11/12 at 02:54 PM

quote:
Originally posted by equinoxms
quote:
Originally posted by Wheels244
Can you do a full set of Locost panels including side panels ?
I can't find anyone who can supply the full set.


Yes I know of a complete set of moulds i could probably borrow to make you a set with.


Great stuff - could you U2U me a price please.
Thanks

Rob

Forgot to mention - it has a DeDion rear end so will need wide rear arches.
Can you do CSR style front arches ?

[Edited on 3/11/12 by Wheels244]


Ben_Copeland - 3/11/12 at 05:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Wheels244
Great stuff - could you U2U me a price please.
Thanks

Rob

Forgot to mention - it has a DeDion rear end so will need wide rear arches.
Can you do CSR style front arches ?

[Edited on 3/11/12 by Wheels244]


It'll be worth it mate! Daves doing my new Haynes Roadster bodywork and the quality is top.

What width rear arches do you need?

Yes he can for CSR as he's got a set of mine atm to copy



[Edited on 3/11/12 by Ben_Copeland]


Wheels244 - 3/11/12 at 08:43 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Ben_Copeland
quote:
Originally posted by Wheels244
Great stuff - could you U2U me a price please.
Thanks

Rob

Forgot to mention - it has a DeDion rear end so will need wide rear arches.
Can you do CSR style front arches ?

[Edited on 3/11/12 by Wheels244]


It'll be worth it mate! Daves doing my new Haynes Roadster bodywork and the quality is top.

What width rear arches do you need?

Yes he can for CSR as he's got a set of mine atm to copy



[Edited on 3/11/12 by Ben_Copeland]


Thanks Ben

I like to work on recommendation. I'll look forward to hearing from Dave.

The rear arches just need to fit a Sierra width rear end which I believe is wider than the standard Locost live axle set up.
Good news about the CSRs as well.

Did anything ever come of the Aero filler group buy ?

Oh, and I'll be fitting the oil pump shortly so stand by for more questions - got side tracked with other things but back on it now.

Cheers

Rob


Ben_Copeland - 3/11/12 at 08:55 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Wheels244

Thanks Ben

I like to work on recommendation. I'll look forward to hearing from Dave.

The rear arches just need to fit a Sierra width rear end which I believe is wider than the standard Locost live axle set up.
Good news about the CSRs as well.

Did anything ever come of the Aero filler group buy ?

Oh, and I'll be fitting the oil pump shortly so stand by for more questions - got side tracked with other things but back on it now.

Cheers

Rob


Yeah, aero cap buy came and went mate

Rear arches are 11inch wide, but he might have wider ones available.


wylliezx9r - 3/11/12 at 09:14 PM

User name "designer" .....says it all. Perhaps you should launch your own car ? Any relation to Neville Jones ?


big_wasa - 27/7/13 at 01:56 PM

Any progress on this ?