theprisioner
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| posted on 14/6/13 at 10:26 AM |
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Sylva J15 IVA fail - help needed
Sylva J15 IVA fail - help needed
Ford Puma 1.7 engine with original Ford ECU
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I have just returned from VOSA and the good news is only one item fail - Emissions (Lambda) to high.
I guess what I need from you guys (and girls) is advice about how to fix it.
On Wednesday earlier in the week I did an MoT on a chassis number and it passed at 1.05.
Today (Friday) it fails at 1.05 on different limits set by VOSA at 1.03.
I guess it is possible that I am pulling air from somewhere rising the emissions, but the original MoT guy used Puma 1997 figures whereas the VOSA
guy used non specific make 2013 figures.
The key question is will that engine ever pass or am I trying to achieve the impossible?
http://sylvabuild.blogspot.com/
http://austin7special.blogspot.co.uk/
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coozer
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| posted on 14/6/13 at 10:35 AM |
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Did you not have the letter from Ford stating the engine age? Sounds like the Vosa man has defaulted to current settings because no proof of engine
age.
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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iank
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| posted on 14/6/13 at 10:45 AM |
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Agree with Coozer, if you had no proof of engine age then IVA have to default to the latest 2013 limits.
Not sure if they accept the donor V5c as proof these days ask them, but a letter from ford stating the date that engine number was made is certainly
good enough.
Your choices are get some proof together and re-submit to be tested again against the proper limits - or re-map the engine to meet 2013 limits. The
letter is cheaper and quicker 
[Edited on 14/6/13 by iank]
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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monkeyarms
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| posted on 14/6/13 at 11:49 AM |
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At my IVA my J15 wouldnt pass using one standard on the machine, so the guy reset the testing machine to another standard to which my car passed. I
cant remember which way round it was, earlier or later etc.
The testing guy was a star.
I did have a photocopy of the V5 from doner car so proved engine age.
I dont know if that helps, sorry.
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inkafone
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| posted on 14/6/13 at 11:53 AM |
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As you're on a standard ECU a remap isn't going to be cheap - can you fool the ECU into thinking that the mixture is too rich by sending
it a higher voltage from the lambda. The catalyst need to be really hot and a cold air feed to the air filter may help.
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loggyboy
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| posted on 14/6/13 at 11:59 AM |
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Try disconnecting the lambda sensor (discreetly) this should shift to default which is lean running, so dont drive it too far.
Got my old Nova through its MoT thanks to the tester telling me to do it!
Mistral Motorsport
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Jenko
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| posted on 14/6/13 at 12:02 PM |
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First of all.....well done thus far for getting it 'almost through' at least you know the build is sound........
If I remember, you used standard intake for the FRP, so I'm struggling to see why the emissions were high (I noticed on your blog there were
issues during the MOT).......Im wondering if the lambda sensor is doing it's job?....Or how are you regulating the fuel
pressure (Anything changed here?).
First off, as per other emails, check the test limits could be that they tested to the wrong limit.
As for air, obviously worth ckecking but the FRP plenum chamber as far as I remember still has just one throttle butterfly, so any air leak would
probably be off set by the butterfly adjustment.........Point being, if it's ticking over ok why would there be an issue...Obviously still worth
checking as there is some ago valve control too.
MY BLOG - http://westfieldv8.blogspot.co.uk/
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Paul AS
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| posted on 14/6/13 at 01:30 PM |
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Thats a brilliant effort mate - well done. I had to change my Lambda sensor when I had the car mapped! The new shiny one went in, rather than the
something thousand miler, and hey presto - happy days. A relatively cheap place to start and dead easy.
Proof of engine age will undoubtedly help. I believe you can evidence this from the engine number through Ford and get the appropriate
documentation.
Another way would be to dip your hand very deep into your pocket, (top side of £1K in total) buy an Omex or Emerald ECU, pay for a mapping session
that would guarantee an IVA pass.
On the new Emerald ECU I believe it holds up to three separate maps, so you could get an IVA (and MOT) compliant map for one, and a nice poky one for
afterwards.
If you were planning to upgrade stuff afterwards, a programmable ECU is a good investment anyway. Expensive, but the possibilities are endless.
Good Luck
Paul
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daveb666
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| posted on 14/6/13 at 01:52 PM |
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Proof of age letter would be the easiest thing:
Ford Technical Information Dept.
PO Box 300
Walsall
WS5 4QH
Proof of Engine Age - XX12345
Dear Ford Dude,
I am building a kit car using a Ford Engine No xx12345. I need to prove the age of the engine is pre-19xx, can you send me a letter stating the engine
age please.
Regards
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deeceee09
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| posted on 14/6/13 at 02:15 PM |
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Well done, only one issue to overcome. If my understanding of the IVA manual is correct I believe the Lambda is between 0.97 and 1.03 for a 1997
engine so the letter from Ford may not be much help. See http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/M1%20IVA%20Inspection%20Manual.pdf page 8 of section
02B.
I had to get my CAT really hot to get through. JP may be able to help he must have got some Sigma engined vehicles through over the years.
Good luck.
Treachery and old age will always triumph over youthful enthusiasm.
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adithorp
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| posted on 14/6/13 at 04:14 PM |
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1. It's a post cut of date engine for a non-cat test, so the tester used the correct test.
2. The limits at IVA (for the cat/BETS test) is lamda between 0.97-1.03.
It's not an MOT and the default figures that a Puma would fall back to if it failed MOT don't apply ('cos it's not a Puma or
an MOT).
Most likely cause is an air leak on one of your exhaust joints. Even the slightest bit will raise it that far. If it's the original Lamda sensor
it's worth changing for a new one. Don't use a cheap one though as they make things worse not better; NGK or preferably Bosch only.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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RichN
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| posted on 14/6/13 at 04:25 PM |
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Don't despair you've got this far and the readings aren't miles off the IVA requirement. I got my RIOT through with a Zetec-SE on
the Ford ECU.
I used a jointing paste on the exhaust joints.
Also what is your idle speed? Is it too high? On my ECU I had to connect the 2 power steering wires together because my original Fiesta had this
feature. Doing this reduced the idle speed to its normal setting.
Good luck.
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I predict a Riot
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| posted on 14/6/13 at 06:18 PM |
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That's a really good fail well done.
I know it's disappointing to fail on just a few silly things but most of us do and did.
I have three bits of advice for you based on my experiences -
1 change the Lambda. You have no way of knowing how old it is or whether it's a genuine OEM part, they do age and get damaged by dodgy fuel,
additives, silicon etc.
I tried several from breakers yards when I needed one and they were all as bad as each other, I bought a good quality new one and hey presto all was
well.
2 when the new Lambda is in put several tanks of fuel through the engine to let the ECU re-learn and get the engine very hot rev the nuts off of it
until the fan is cutting in regularly.
3 - when you are at the IVA re-test sit outside with the car and get the engine stinking hot again before you go in. I assume you are using the close
coupled cat from the puma, this sits directly after the exhaust manifold so it does get up tp temperature quickly but also cools quickly.
When you have got it passed rip of the horrible ugly cat and put one of Jeremy's lovely exhaust systems on, the popping and banging on over run
is delicious.
Hope that's of some help. It worked for me I also failed first time on emmissions.
Adrian
"Honesty is a very expensive gift. Do not expect it from cheap people ". Warren Buffet on Expectation
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ian locostzx9rc2
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| posted on 14/6/13 at 06:37 PM |
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Buy a new ngk sensor and it will more than likely pass make sure cat is v hot whilst its being tested..
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CRAIGR
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| posted on 14/6/13 at 06:51 PM |
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Welll done mate. Thats a damn good fail , hope you sort it soon .
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nickm
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| posted on 14/6/13 at 07:18 PM |
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Well done
Nearly there
The emerald i have has 3 maps they suggest test, economy and performance but my lambda only plugs the hole in the exhaust !!!
Nick M
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theprisioner
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| posted on 16/6/13 at 10:59 PM |
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Latest update:
http://sylvabuild.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/the-dreaded-iva.html
http://sylvabuild.blogspot.com/
http://austin7special.blogspot.co.uk/
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Madinventions
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| posted on 17/6/13 at 12:06 AM |
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Agree with the comments above. It's perfectly possible to get through the emissions test as you are, but you do need to ensure that
you've got ansolutely no air leaks whatsoever in the exhaust system (gum everything) and get that cat really really hot. Holding the revs at
2500rpm for 2-3 minutes is not uncommon in order to get the heat into it. Also, you definitely won't need to remap the ECU. Just put some
miles onto it on the way to the IVA test next time and give it plenty of opportunity to learn.
I also had problems with silicon contamination of one of my Lambda sensors but this made the car run super lean and overheat so it was pretty easy to
spot.
All in all, not a bad result at all! I have a feeling that you're going to really enjoy that engine in that car!
Ed.
Mojo build diary: http://www.madinventions.co.uk
Solo music project: Syrrenfor http://www.reverbnation.com/syrrenfor
View my band website:
http://www.shadowlight.org.uk
http://www.eastangliankitcars.co.uk/
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