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Author: Subject: Scratch Build Midi?
coozer

posted on 29/7/13 at 08:14 PM Reply With Quote
Scratch Build Midi?

Whats the collective thoughts on building a midi with inline engine aka F1 using parts from the book, like the rear bulkhead, front suspension nose area and general design? Obviously removing the front engine bay section to give the forward seated rear engine look.

At the rear a bespoke layout to use an Audi V6 and transaxle. I'm figuring the V6 is shorter than the 4 pot?



My thoughts are to do away with the trans tunnel and make the chassis a bit narrower but tye the whole lot together with a full cage integrated into the chassis.

[Edited on 29/7/13 by coozer]





1972 V8 Jago

1980 Z750

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mark chandler

posted on 29/7/13 at 08:34 PM Reply With Quote
I started doing this as a single seater with Audi box

Chassis with engine in
Chassis with engine in


Then cut it up and throw away when moving house

It's the way to go, wish I had gone for v6 Audi such as that from the outset.

Cheers Mark

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big_wasa

posted on 29/7/13 at 08:35 PM Reply With Quote
I am thinking about a midi project. I am keeping an eye on the Midlana but I would think the book is another 2 years down the line.

I am no designer and really need an outline to start from like "The Book"

I was thinking about the Subaru boxer as its very short and with a low cg, huge tuning potential. Mgr kv6 would be cheap.

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Volvorsport

posted on 29/7/13 at 09:06 PM Reply With Quote
Rh were there before you &#55357;&#56838;&#55357;&#56864;&#55357;&#56394;are





www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus

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liam.mccaffrey

posted on 29/7/13 at 09:37 PM Reply With Quote
See if you can get a copy of high speed low cost by allan staniforth. After reading this you will be itching to build a special.
It will hold no fear for you





Build Blog
Build Photo Album

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coozer

posted on 29/7/13 at 11:08 PM Reply With Quote
I'm not scared, I think its easy BUT.. need a BIG workshop first..

Anyone want to buy my house?





1972 V8 Jago

1980 Z750

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coozer

posted on 29/7/13 at 11:15 PM Reply With Quote
Think I'll start with the 'build your own sports car' book.

Anyone got one they know longer need?





1972 V8 Jago

1980 Z750

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iank

posted on 30/7/13 at 05:17 AM Reply With Quote
Technically not a huge deal for someone who's built their own car (does it use a cable gearchange? if not that's usually a challenge) but getting the visual balance right and making the bodywork are the hardest parts in my opinion.

I'd suggest taking a few evenings to make a model (like Carbonman or TheGecko) to make sure it looks right.





--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous

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JC

posted on 30/7/13 at 07:26 AM Reply With Quote
There was a chap in PPC who did something very similar, using a Renault Donor AFAIK. I think he was also in a recent kit car mag. There is no reason why it won't work - I have dine something vaguely similar with a transverse engine. You end up either with a wide front end, or a narrow footwell, or lots of chassis in front of the front bulkhead if you use book suspension dimensions (the original book) so I used the +4 width. Not sure how wide the haynes version is!!!

Have a look at my blog. After that, if you are still awake and have any questions, happy to answer them!

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hughpinder

posted on 30/7/13 at 08:26 AM Reply With Quote
In my (very slowly) developing midi, I chose to keep the tunnel, but a bit narrower- my radaitor, battery and fuel tank are at the front, and it gives a suitable place to run the following:

water pipes
brake pipes
gear change mechanism + gear lever
wiring
fuel pipes
handbrake cable/mechanism + lever

etc....

Since you have no engine at the front, it doesn't need to be so tall, so I was planning on using a wider/less tall radiator, so that I can slope the front body down a bit towards the front - otherwise, since the 'front' is shorter you end up will a sort of 'stumpy' front end.

Regards
Hugh

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Gear Monkey

posted on 8/8/13 at 08:35 PM Reply With Quote
I'm toying with the idea of building either an audi v6/8 transaxle or honda blackbird powered mid engined car having built my first locost about 15 years ago. I can't seem to upload a photo but look here

https://www.facebook.com/PaulTurnerEngineering

To see the sketch I've made that I believe would make a good looking roadster that borrows a few design idea's from an Atom. I'm going to need to place a radius in the 4 full length tubes and a few other bits. I'd have the chassis exposed and then make panels to sit between the chassis beams to improve aero and provide (a little) weather protection. I'd prefer to fit an audi engine and box but I've found buying an engine and gearbox without the loom, ecu to be a pain so I'd need a crashed car ideally. Another cheap alternative would be the 250bhp Saab engine and box although this with sit transverse and not look anything like as sexy. Another easy alternative would be a blackbird engine and free sequential tranny but I'd like more torque ideally and a nice growl

Paul

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coyoteboy

posted on 8/8/13 at 09:51 PM Reply With Quote
I have an audi v8+6spd transaxle currently being re worked just now for almost exactly this task but I don't plan to use anyone's chassis design, I think it makes more sense to build/design from scratch.
I found the v6 engines, generally, were too heavy for their power. Almost all of the v6v engines weigh more than the all alloy v8s with 100hp less in Stock form.





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coozer

posted on 9/8/13 at 10:15 AM Reply With Quote
Is there much difference in the length of the V6 and V8? I was thinking V6 because I presumed it was shorter than a 4 pot making the back end nice and cozy. However I think a V8 would be awesome! And obviously the weight advantage of the V8 (and extra power) would be nice!

Paul, I've 'liked' your page on FB, will follow it with a keen eye






1972 V8 Jago

1980 Z750

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Gear Monkey

posted on 9/8/13 at 10:36 AM Reply With Quote
Thanks for the follow I've got a number of little jobs and projects on the boil so hopefully I'll have some cool stuff going on soon.

Here's an idea! what about the all alloy 24v V6 from Alfa? Loads of power and apparently the sexiest sound of any road car!! A complete mot failure GTV can be had for a couple of hundred quid so may provide a really nice engine?? They look nice too!

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coyoteboy

posted on 9/8/13 at 12:35 PM Reply With Quote
Not sure about the v6 total length, but I can fire you an approximate 3D model of the V8 that I made from my own dimensional measurements if you like - it won't be perfect but it's enough for packaging info.

This is effectively the route I've taken:
http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?t=9648

One thing to take into account is the smaller audi transaxles won't cope with the torque from the V8 or a V6 biturbo, you need the bigger heavier 01E box which adds about 6 inches to the total length of the box too, but using it as a number plate mount is a trade-off I was willing to make

[Edited on 9/8/13 by coyoteboy]





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kitman

posted on 18/8/13 at 07:36 PM Reply With Quote
@hughpinder.
I'm doing the same, but I like to have one with doors, only I have some doubts about the rigid of the chassis.
Can we share some information about it?

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Gear Monkey

posted on 18/8/13 at 07:43 PM Reply With Quote
Maybe incorporate a roll cage into the chassis design to increase the rigidity? If not I guess you'll need to have a reasonably stiff central spine.
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kitman

posted on 19/8/13 at 06:40 AM Reply With Quote
I've been thinking about that. The spine is 4 tubes 40 mm diameter with triangle connections.
We have a TVR, this is made the same way, but I think the TVR body is also used as a supportive part.
It seems I do'nt have pictures of it, all drawing by hand.
Try to make some.

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kitman

posted on 20/8/13 at 10:23 PM Reply With Quote
How can I find to pot a picture here? They are in the Photo Archive.
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Fred W B

posted on 21/8/13 at 05:11 PM Reply With Quote
I open the picture in the archive, right click, copy properties.

Then go back to thread, and click "insert an image" button while in new post, a window opens and right click again to paste the properties.








[Edited on 21/8/13 by Fred W B]

[Edited on 21/8/13 by Fred W B]

[Edited on 21/8/13 by Fred W B]





You can do it quickly. You can do it cheap. You can do it right. Pick any two.

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kitman

posted on 21/8/13 at 09:19 PM Reply With Quote
thanks, it's done, so this how I made it.
Can I leave it or do I need to upload it here again in my name?
Is there a way to calculate the strenght.

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kb58

posted on 26/8/13 at 02:18 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
I am thinking about a midi project. I am keeping an eye on the Midlana but I would think the book is another 2 years down the line.

It'll be released in November








Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html

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43655

posted on 11/9/13 at 08:01 AM Reply With Quote
in regards to the gearbox you have, i have the same kinda one (audi 80), do you know if anyone makes LSD's for them?
Being a diesel box there's a bit less choice on gearboxes of that orientation.
I certainly will be keeping the tunnel for both water pipes and other crap that needs to go fore/aft, and as a considerable structural member too

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kitman

posted on 23/2/14 at 03:33 PM Reply With Quote
I use two frontlines, the one with the engine in the back. A bit like the Cox GTM.
Only tubes between them.
I hardly see something like this, I think it is easy to do with all the brandparts used.
Is there a reason not to do it?

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big_wasa

posted on 23/2/14 at 03:45 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kb58
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
I am thinking about a midi project. I am keeping an eye on the Midlana but I would think the book is another 2 years down the line.

It'll be released in November

And I bought it, still haven't found the time to read it though.

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