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Author: Subject: Being unfairly "Flamed" - Minor rant
russbost

posted on 26/10/15 at 09:44 AM Reply With Quote
Being unfairly "Flamed" - Minor rant

As many of you on here know, I pride myself & Furore Products, Furore Cars with giving good service at a low price, I've just had a customer leave an entirely unfair review of us on the Rhocar site - I am adding a link as we have nothing to hide here

Link


So, he hasn't read the information on the website b4 ordering, he has received EXACTLY what he ordered & paid for & his only actual gripe is that we have made the hoses inaccurately to the tune of 1.25% inaccuracy - I will be very surprised if he can find much else on his Robin Hood made to that degree of accuracy!!! He has included a reply from us in his "name & shame"- however he hasn't included the second email where we have offered to replace a hose if that's what he wants, I am including our second reply, & his answer below

Hi Marcus

I'm sorry you are not happy with the product, however I would point out that had you bought those same hoses from HEL you would have paid a LOT more just to get a "free" nut!

We do specify the tolerance on the website, perhaps we should make it more prominent, it's possible you didn't see it as I believe you came to us from a link on another site. However in 7 years of making & supplying hoses we have never had this issue before, if there is any question that the shorter hose would not be safe for use on the car then please return it to us for replacement, we can do our best to make it 5mm "long" so it would match the other hose perfectly.

With regard to the nut, I could equally well point out that nowhere do we say, "supplied with nut" - whereas, for instance we do say on the banjo fittings, "copper washers supplied FOC" - when taking phone orders we ask the customer if they want nuts for the bulkheads at £1ea & I would say around 4 out of 5 prefer to use the original nuts they have.

I've seen your review of ourselves on the Rhocar site & I believe it is totally unfair, perhaps you would be kind enough to actually put a copy of our response to you on the site as well as I feel that might supply a more accurate overall picture. We have NEVER before had a poor review from anyone, in fact if you look at the locostbuilders site there are glowing reviews from many satisfied customers. You might at least have allowed us the opportunity of putting things right before "dissing" our good reputation in public!

Our aim is to satsify our customers & keep them happy, so, if you are unhappy then please let us do something to make that right.

Assuring you of our best attention at all times.

Regards Russ


& his reply to the above


Hi Russell.


I sent you a message asking about the discrepancy in length and lack of fixing nut.

You told me it's well within your tolerance and I should have asked for a nut.no offer to sort the issue out

When dealing with hel I simply thought I got better serving and the hoses simply felt better.money doesn't matter if the products right.

You never offered to put it right just simply why it was like it was .

Sorry if this isn't to your liking.

I'll fit them to my car when it's fixed and hopefully should be ok.

I'll stick to using who I know and trust next time

Marcus


So we offer to pretty much do anything we can to satisfy his "issue" & he responds by continuing to "diss" us in public, but he's now quite happy to fit these hoses to his car! WTF! He says the HEL hoses "simply felt better" - well, it's amazing what psychological things are going on when you pay more for the same product, because ALL our hoses, unions, fittings & equipment are HEL product, absolutely identical to anything they sell direct - the only difference is that they add a heat shrunk sleeve to each ferrule which we don't

What I find even more annoying is that people who don't know me, have never spoken to us or bought anything from us are quite happy to pile in with negative comments like "5mm in 100mm is 5%, monkeys could do better than that" - when did you last see a 100mm long brake hose? I think we've made about 3 in the 7 years or so I've been doing it & obviously you have to take extra care when working with such short lengths. "I always make my own it's half the price" - Errr, no actually it isn't I've done price comparisons b4 & by the time you add in suppliers extortionate P & P charges etc, making them yourself might come out around 10 to 15% cheaper & that will be for a heavier, uglier, lower quality product that won't have the wipe clean PVC coating & will go rusty in a few months as soon as it's got wet - our stainless fittings will never rust. "I get mine from a local supplier" - well that's very useful to anyone who happens to live down the road, but won't really help the other 99.9999% of the country will it? "unfortunately there are very few companies out there with a good all round customer service record" - well, yes, that may be true, but I don't believe it applies to ourselves & TTBOMK this guy has never used our services for anything.

My thanks to Snapperpaul who made some intelligent comments!

Anyway, rant over, I sincerely hope that you guys agree with me in regard to our customer service, if not please point out what we're doing wrong! What really gripes is that I have no way to defend myself on the forum in question as I'm not a member there, hence my airing of this in public on here - sorry to have gone on so long, just wanted to put the record straight!

[Edited on 26/10/15 by russbost]





I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours. http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1

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joneh

posted on 26/10/15 at 09:57 AM Reply With Quote
You can't please 100% of people 100% of the time, no matter how hard you try. Don't let it get you down, learn from it what you can and move on.

Some customers are just dicks.

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MP3C

posted on 26/10/15 at 10:01 AM Reply With Quote
Entirely unjustified in my opinion. I normally have a seperate selection of nuts so would never be a problem and like you said, would use the old ones. If they work whats the point in changing them and wouldnt see an issue if not supplied. Regarding your tolerances. If I was to do it myself it would be the same, you would need eyes like a hawk to notice anyway and wouldent order something that was the "prefect" length because 9 out of 10 times its a nightmare fitting and normally have to get a longer one anyway. Bit OTT for a name and shame thread, obviously has impossible high standards.

Matt

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Daf

posted on 26/10/15 at 10:41 AM Reply With Quote
Some people are just like that - it's life!

However I've bought a number of items off you both through locostbuilders and through ebay and had nothing but EXCELLENT service and wouldn't hesitate for a moment to highly recomend your services!

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imp paul

posted on 26/10/15 at 10:56 AM Reply With Quote
keep your chin up russ some times life is very unfair and can be cruel all you can do is your best
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Irony

posted on 26/10/15 at 10:58 AM Reply With Quote
Some people moan constantly and they make it their mission in life. I know a woman who complains at the slightest quibble. She has had 4 free holidays at centre parks due to constantly complaining about the cleaning of the apartments. Complaining pays these days. She more of less does it professional.

Plenty of people will correct him.

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r1_pete

posted on 26/10/15 at 11:04 AM Reply With Quote
Forget him, if he comes back for more tell him to 'go to HEL'

Email and public forums are not the place to sort these problems out, that's where the phone comes in, unfortunately too many people hide behind email to air their gripes.....

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richardm6994

posted on 26/10/15 at 11:07 AM Reply With Quote
Personally, I know full well how hard it is to start a company from the ground up, and how a damming / unfair review can really hurt businesses.....so I do sympathize with your rant.

As some of you maybe aware, I am the Chairman of RHOCaR and as such I have looked into this matter to decide upon it's validity and whether or not to remove the topic from the forum.......I have tried to take a balanced view of it based upon my observations;


The legitimate complaint I see is the fact that the customer ordered 2 hoses at 400mm, however 1 of them arrived at 395mm and the other at 405mm.


I agree that this discrepancy is probably not noticeable when fitted to the car........however the fact still stands that you have not supplied the length which was ordered from you (irrespective of how much cheaper you are)......................does your website state a length tolerance that you work to?......from looking in various places on your website I couldn't see any tolerance advice anywhere.............however what you do state on your front page for brake hoses is;

"we are well used to providing the customer with exactly what he, or she, wants"

and

"Our custom made bespoke Stainless Steel Braided Flexible Brake Hoses, with Stainless Steel unions are made to your exact requirements"


So on one hand you openly claim to provide hoses to exact requirements.....but in reality (from what I can see) you don't supply to "exact" requirements, you supply to a tolerance however you do not make this tolerance known at order placement (unless I'm mistaken).


We all have to work to tolerances, I accept that, but your customer's should be made aware of this before they place their orders.......whenever I receive a machining job, I issue an approval drawing fully dimensioned with tolerances for my customer to approve before any work is done and money changes hands.

Lessons learnt? you are always going to find pedantic customers, and so you need probably need to make sure you update your website with tolerances that you work to?

If I have missed where you state hose length tolerances on your website, then I am sorry and my points made above would not be valid and so I would gladly remove the topic from the RHOCaR forum.






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ReMan

posted on 26/10/15 at 11:08 AM Reply With Quote
As said give him the opportunity to close it with a copy f your responses.
He won't , so that makes him the cock with a short keyboard warrior fuse, before, as you clearly have, giving you the opportunity to fully resolve it to his satisfaction. But as mentioned its good enough to fit
I'd be pissed if I were you too. Unfortunatly we live in a world of internet fucktards having had my own share recently on eBay and other such more local sires where people reserve the right to wee you about

[Edited on 26/10/15 by ReMan]





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PAUL FISHER

posted on 26/10/15 at 11:56 AM Reply With Quote
I think the guy is being a bit pedantic over 5mm, and then making it out as a big issue on the Robin Hood forum.
But having said that having been self employed for the last 20years, the customer is always right, even when he is not.
You could have just offered him a couple of nuts, and to make him another hose up, either 395mm 400mm or 405mm, I am sure he would have been happy then, yes its cost you a few quid, but its worth it for no stress.
Also it does say on your webb site, that the brake hoses with bulk head fixings come with a nut

http://furorecars.co.uk/brake-clutch-hoses/

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CosKev3

posted on 26/10/15 at 12:03 PM Reply With Quote
I can see his point if it does not state on the order form/hose listing page you work to a 5mm tolerance.

I wouldn't be happy with hoses 10mm difference in length tbh,as I'm fussy and unless I agreed to the tolerance difference before purchase I would expect the hoses to be spot on to my ordered length.

Don't agree with the public posting on a forum though.

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Doctor Derek Doctors

posted on 26/10/15 at 12:50 PM Reply With Quote
This sort of stuff really annoys me and also worries me with running a small business, one complete pranny can spread a load of bile. The thread title is the worst bit "Name and Shame", what a thoughtless thing to do.





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Mark100

posted on 26/10/15 at 12:52 PM Reply With Quote
Ive never had any problem with any of the stuff from you and when the wrong battery did arrive you changed it and had the new one on next day delivery free of charge keep up the good work chap
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sandwich

posted on 26/10/15 at 01:33 PM Reply With Quote
A sign of a good company is how well they treat the awkward customers. Posting on another forum "Flaming the Flamer" and trying to score points is not the sign of a mature and customer focussed company. What were you hoping to achieve by even doing this? How many of your customers are Robin Hood owners or builders? You may have alienated many of your future customers with your snide and snobbish comments about the Robin Hood quality. Is it your aim to destroy your business?

The better way would be to deal with this behind the scenes, instead of making yourself look like an amateur.

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MikeRJ

posted on 26/10/15 at 02:18 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by richardm6994
Personally, I know full well how hard it is to start a company from the ground up, and how a damming / unfair review can really hurt businesses.....so I do sympathize with your rant.

As some of you maybe aware, I am the Chairman of RHOCaR and as such I have looked into this matter to decide upon it's validity and whether or not to remove the topic from the forum.......I have tried to take a balanced view of it based upon my observations;


The legitimate complaint I see is the fact that the customer ordered 2 hoses at 400mm, however 1 of them arrived at 395mm and the other at 405mm.


I agree that this discrepancy is probably not noticeable when fitted to the car........however the fact still stands that you have not supplied the length which was ordered from you (irrespective of how much cheaper you are)......................does your website state a length tolerance that you work to?......from looking in various places on your website I couldn't see any tolerance advice anywhere.............


Firstly, as a chairman you should be putting forward your views in a professional manner, and putting dozens of full stops between sentences is anything but.

I've just checked out Russ's web site and within 20 seconds of opening the FuroreProduct ashop front I found this statement on hose tolerance. It's not hidden, you simply navigate to the brake hose section and it's very clearly stated at the top of the page.

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sandwich

posted on 26/10/15 at 02:26 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ

I've just checked out Russ's web site and within 20 seconds of opening the FuroreProduct ashop front I found this statement on hose tolerance. It's not hidden, you simply navigate to the brake hose section and it's very clearly stated at the top of the page.


The original site the hoses were purchased from was Brakehose.co.uk according to the post. Not http://furoreproducts.co.uk. I can't see a tolerance listed on the site the hoses were purchased from (although I may have missed it)

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jeffw

posted on 26/10/15 at 02:28 PM Reply With Quote
"If I have missed where you state hose length tolerances on your website, then I am sorry and my points made above would not be valid and so I would gladly remove the topic from the RHOCaR forum. "


"Stainless Steel Braided Flexible Brake Hoses, with Stainless Steel unions made to your...



Please be aware that due to monitor/computer differences and changes made by our supplier, the colour of hoses may be differ slightly. We make hoses to a tolerance of + or - 5mm, it is ALWAYS better to have a hose slightly too long than too short, a short hose can be dangerous, so please make adequate allowance when specifying your hoses. If you require a hose where absolute accuracy is required then please contact us at the time of order & we will do our best to ensure accuracy"



I guess this means the rant will be taken down then.






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sandwich

posted on 26/10/15 at 02:36 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
"If I have missed where you state hose length tolerances on your website, then I am sorry and my points made above would not be valid and so I would gladly remove the topic from the RHOCaR forum. "


"Stainless Steel Braided Flexible Brake Hoses, with Stainless Steel unions made to your...



Please be aware that due to monitor/computer differences and changes made by our supplier, the colour of hoses may be differ slightly. We make hoses to a tolerance of + or - 5mm, it is ALWAYS better to have a hose slightly too long than too short, a short hose can be dangerous, so please make adequate allowance when specifying your hoses. If you require a hose where absolute accuracy is required then please contact us at the time of order & we will do our best to ensure accuracy"



I guess this means the rant will be taken down then.


JeffW, where on http://brakehose.co.uk is that? I can't seem to find it.

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richardm6994

posted on 26/10/15 at 02:44 PM Reply With Quote
firstly apologies to the grammar police.............

secondly, the website used for buying the hoses is;
http://brakehose.co.uk/

As I said before, I cannot find any references to tolerances on the site used for buying the hoses. If I have missed the tolerance statement on that site and someone could point me in the direction of them (not to a completely different website), then I am wrong in what I have said in the above post.

Lastly, I would point out a couple of my own personal frustrations wit what has been said;

"what really gripes is that I have no way to defend myself on the forum in question as I'm not a member there"
This is not the case. Anyone can join the forum as a user an contribute to this discussion. I have seen that a member on here (Irony) has done just that earlier this morning.

"we can to satisfy his "issue" (perhaps that should be mental problem!)"
So putting dozens of full stops between sentences make me unprofessional, however calling a customer as has having "mental problems" is perfectly acceptable on LCB?!?!?!


That is me done now on this topic. I will honor what I say and remove the topic on RHOCaR if someone can show me where tolerances are clearly stated on the website used for purchasing the hoses.......http://brakehose.co.uk/

[Edited on 26/10/15 by richardm6994]






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owelly

posted on 26/10/15 at 02:49 PM Reply With Quote
Taken from the brakehose site
quote:

If a bespoke item has a mistake which was due to an error on behalf of Furore Products then we will replace or reimburse you. If an item is made and the error was on the order then the item will be deemed to be made as ordered. We will in all events endeavour to come to a happy conclusion.



I guess that concludes the discussion.

Incidentally, I have used furoreproducts.co.uk quite a few times and had nothing but excellent service. I've 'phoned them at 5pm and had my custom hoses on my doormat by 10am the next day.





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jossey

posted on 26/10/15 at 04:06 PM Reply With Quote
The guys a prick I trust you guys and if I had a problem with your stuff I trust you would solve.

Thanks





Thanks



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Irony

posted on 26/10/15 at 04:16 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by richardm6994

Anyone can join the forum as a user an contribute to this discussion. I have seen that a member on here (Irony) has done just that earlier this morning.



Yep, that was me. I have bought quite a few products from Furore and all have been to a high standard as was the customer service. Russ even helped with a difficult 'to get matched up' clutch hose which no other company wanted to help with. He phoned me himself. I just felt it important to get a different review on there.

I don't own my own business but I work in marketing and I know how damaging it can be to have one bad review on a internet forum. People are quick to post a complaint or even a opinion (any locostbuilder should remember this post, which I believe should be removed link). We have had our own staff voicing their negative opinions on social media a few times. If you have a problem then take it up with the person responsible, not in the public domain (unless very very serious). We have now made negative opinion on social media a action of GROSS MISCONDUCT in all employees contracts.

In fact thinking about it, if Forure can prove the OP wrong he could start court proceedings.

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Charlie_Zetec

posted on 26/10/15 at 04:38 PM Reply With Quote
Honestly, I wouldn't be overly happy with 10mm difference between hoses if I bought them off-the-shelf product at full retail price, but then again, I'm rather OCD about things! But if you're paying a lesser amount, for the same quality product, and the tolerances are stated on the site (or any other affiliated site), then you always take the risk that one may have maximum tolerance and the other the lower tolerance. Standard operating procedure.

As for things like the nuts, well, if you're that fussed about it then perhaps you should've read the product description properly! I'm sure everyone here has glanced over something before and missed bits off, and that's exactly what has happened here.

I've spoken with Russ over plenty of things, and always found him more than helpful. And yes, in some instances you do go the "extra mile" to keep some customers happy, but you can't/don't do it for all of them.

"You'll never please 100% of the people 100% of the time."

I'd recommend Russ/Furore based upon my conversations alone.





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v8kid

posted on 26/10/15 at 04:53 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by richardm6994

"we can to satisfy his "issue" (perhaps that should be mental problem!)"
So putting dozens of full stops between sentences make me unprofessional, however calling a customer as has having "mental problems" is perfectly acceptable on LCB?!?!?!


[Edited on 26/10/15 by richardm6994]


Surely this has gone far enough? I for one would hesitate to buy from a company whose response to a complaint was to label the customer as having "mental problems". I understand a suppliers frustration at a grossly overstated complaint but is name calling going to resolve it?

Best for all parties to cool down and apologize to each other for going too far.

After all we are all gentlemen here

Cheers!





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russbost

posted on 26/10/15 at 05:08 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PAUL FISHER
I think the guy is being a bit pedantic over 5mm, and then making it out as a big issue on the Robin Hood forum.
But having said that having been self employed for the last 20years, the customer is always right, even when he is not.
You could have just offered him a couple of nuts, and to make him another hose up, either 395mm 400mm or 405mm, I am sure he would have been happy then, yes its cost you a few quid, but its worth it for no stress.
Also it does say on your webb site, that the brake hoses with bulk head fixings come with a nut

http://furorecars.co.uk/brake-clutch-hoses/


Sorry I've not responded to any of these till now, been very busy all day - Mondays are invariably a busy day!

It is unusual for us to be out by 10mm over 2 hoses, & an unusual coincidence that one is on the bottom tolerance & the other the top, but of course I have only his word for the lengths. As you will see from our response I have offered to replace one of the hoses, but he doesn't apparently want that, as for offering a couple of nuts, well yes I could have offered that, but he'd already posted his "name & shame" by then, which strangely made me a little less cooperative! For anyone thinking it's petty to charge for the nuts I suggest go to any supplier other than ourselves & see what they cost! Stainless steel half nuts in m10 x 1.0, because it's not a standard thread, are extortionate - when we sell them at £1ea, I can assure you I'm not making a lot out of that.

Re the wording you've spotted on Furore Cars, I wasn't aware of the discrepancy & will immediately correct it, though he hasn't bought from Furore Cars Ltd. which is a completely different company to Furore Products which is a partnership, not a limited company. Apologies for being a pedant!





I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours. http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1

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