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MK Midi - anybody seen it?
motorcycle_mayhem - 30/6/09 at 09:32 PM

I'd pretty much set my head (and heart) on a winter R1ot, OK, not so much a R1ot, but a GSXRot (but you get the picture). I've been competing against one (R1 flavour) for the last 2 years, it's a pretty fantastic car. When it's dry, the battle is in the R1ot's favour, when wet, my conventional 7 has the edge. It's a close thing over the season, I want one.
Anyway, then old MK comes up with his Midi, which looking at a kit car magazine looks to have done SVA and is now pretty much available.
Suddenly there are 2 choices, not one. Obviously I'm now going to spend some time looking at the MK, has anyone driven one yet? Has anyone driven both? From the piccies, the MK looks very well done, good angles on all the geometry, looks great.

eccsmk - 30/6/09 at 09:44 PM

Martin Keenans is the only one on the road
or maybe even made yet.
I was at mk sportscars when martin arrived on a test drive pre-sva,
i must say i love the look of it and he has spent ages getting it just right.
Im sure he is coming to cadwell with it on 6th july for further testing

If you get chance to go see him he will let you drive it as he told me he wouldn't sell someone the kit unless they had driven the car.
HTH in some way

PAUL FISHER - 30/6/09 at 10:06 PM

Ive not driven it yet,but I had a good look round the car pre SVA around at Mr MK's,had a sit in it etc,I am 6' 3" and I fitted in it no problem,although it felt a little snug compared to the Indy,but it is a tiny little car like the Riots,I was very impressed with the build quality I love the rear end,there's lots of bespoke parts,the front uprights for example are Martins own design and included in the kit price,as is just about every thing else,its a very comprehensive kit,which also helps you get the car on a new registration plate,as it users no real 2nd hand donor parts,everything is supplied or bought new,except your bike engine.But the best bit is the price,it looks like you can put a nice one on the road for around £7000,and looking at the Riot price list thats a lot cheaper than the Riot.And if you can't make the trackday on monday the 6th of July,give him a call and arrange a test drive.

austin man - 30/6/09 at 10:34 PM

As Paul f says a nice looking car and as always a good build quality from Martin, I saw the motor a week ago and it looks well sorted, people who ave driven it give it praise.

theconrodkid - 1/7/09 at 06:29 AM

i had a poke round/sit in at stonleigh......if only i had the money

procomp - 1/7/09 at 06:51 AM

Hi

Just out of interest what form of motorsport are we talking about where a conventional 7 can not beat a Riot.

Cheers Matt

Omni - 1/7/09 at 07:57 AM

Finished pics





Not bad at all

O

jpindy3 - 1/7/09 at 08:46 AM

nice mk,
i like the gt40 back

motorcycle_mayhem - 1/7/09 at 09:21 AM

Thanks for all the info., it's going to have to be a serious lookie at MK's Midi then at MK's, there's no way I shall be available to do anything on the 6th July.
6'3" and you fit - thanks Paul - much appreciated.

I just love the whole concept of this, as with the R1oT, changeable gearing, lightweight transmission, etc. From the pictures, certainly, I find the Midi more visually appealling.

I assume he's used similar geometry to that on the Sprint R, if that's the case, there's not going to be much wrong there. Certainly the R1oT works, it's a known quantity (just check out Ian Parr, ASWMC).

Winter is looking bearable....

Richard Quinn - 1/7/09 at 12:14 PM

I can see the possible advantage over a conventional 7 in a drag race and I guess that the lack of a propshaft saves a few kg. As has been pointed out, changing sprockets will allow for relatively cheap changes in gearing but from my Autograss experience, I can safely say that the theory doesn't always match the practice with this and there will be a bit of "suck it and see" involved. Other than off the line, I can't see how thes things would give an advantage over a traditional 7 type layout particularly around a circuit where the balance of the car will come into play.

PAUL FISHER - 5/7/09 at 02:08 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Quinn
I can see the possible advantage over a conventional 7 in a drag race and I guess that the lack of a propshaft saves a few kg. As has been pointed out, changing sprockets will allow for relatively cheap changes in gearing but from my Autograss experience, I can safely say that the theory doesn't always match the practice with this and there will be a bit of "suck it and see" involved. Other than off the line, I can't see how thes things would give an advantage over a traditional 7 type layout particularly around a circuit where the balance of the car will come into play.




Radicals and the like must have got it all wrong then?

kb58 - 5/7/09 at 04:22 PM

What's always brought up is that if a car has 50/50 weight balance it must have perfect handling. It does - on a skidpad, where the car is neither speeding up nor slowing down. However, a racetrack is not a skidpad.

For maximum acceleration and braking, more weight on the rear wheels is a good thing. If larger rear tires are used, a mid-engine car can be exactly as fast as a 50/50 vehicle even on the skidpad - in other words, neutral handling.

Speaking of that, many Locost builders put larger rear tires on their cars to help traction. However, think what this does to the dynamic weight distribution. Sure, the car may still be 50/50 on corner scales but because the tires aren't the same size, this "perfectly balanced" car will understeer.


[Edited on 7/6/09 by kb58]

procomp - 6/7/09 at 08:08 AM

Hi

"Radicals and the like must have got it all wrong then?"

Them MOJO's and RIOTS ect are just like radicals aren't they. LOL

Just ask any of the competitive drivers who have tried to race them and there experiences. Placing the engine right behind the driver transversely can be made to work but it dose not have the same proportions as those examples. Hence the reason there are no two MOJO'S / RIOTS out there with the same chassis. They are constantly modding them to try and improve them.

Cheers Matt

PAUL FISHER - 7/7/09 at 09:03 PM

quote:
Originally posted by procomp
Hi

"Radicals and the like must have got it all wrong then?"

Them MOJO's and RIOTS ect are just like radicals aren't they. LOL

Just ask any of the competitive drivers who have tried to race them and there experiences. Placing the engine right behind the driver transversely can be made to work but it dose not have the same proportions as those examples. Hence the reason there are no two MOJO'S / RIOTS out there with the same chassis. They are constantly modding them to try and improve them.

Cheers Matt



My example was in answer to Richard Quins point regarding Midi layout,in that he could not see a advantaged of this over a conventional seven type car.
I chose the "Radical and the like"as the best example in my opinion,and bench mark for all the Midi construction,at no point did I compare a Mojo with a Radical in terms of performance,just that there is no reason why a well designed Midi can not handle as well if not better than a conventional seven,as Tony Gaunt is showing in his Wolfe ZXR,this is a Riot chassis for those who don't no the car,with a a full body racing in the RGB,the car is new to RGB racing,but is already beating a lot of the competition,infact last time out at Snetterton finished 6th,lapping in 1m 19s and averaging 88mph,does not sound like a poor handling chassis to me.He was quicker than most of sevens on the grid,and most of the cars that finished in front of him were in fact also Midi's,including again the BDN S2 of Derek Jones,another example of a Midi,with similar dimentions to the Riot.

[Edited on 19/05/04 by PAUL FISHER]

procomp - 8/7/09 at 07:01 AM

Hi

1.19 is not exactly quick round Snett though is it. What times are the proper mid engined cars doing with Radical type setup 1.15's. Even the Seven type kits with 165 hp cec is doing 1.18's round there.

But speak to any driver who has tried competing in one you ll soon get the gist of it.

Cheers Matt

PAUL FISHER - 8/7/09 at 01:31 PM

quote:
Originally posted by procomp
Hi


But speak to any driver who has tried competing in one you ll soon get the gist of it.

Cheers Matt



I don't think I need too,I believe I have made my point well,backed up with actual facts,not here say as your posts often based on,your in such a rush to criticize another Manufacturer design,that you must start typing before your brain gets into gear.

procomp - 8/7/09 at 02:10 PM

Hi Paul

Lap times and drivers who are actualy driving them cars in competition are what i am working with.

Yet again you like to argue with no idea of what you are actualy talking about. End off

Cheers Matt

PAUL FISHER - 8/7/09 at 08:58 PM

quote:
Originally posted by procomp
Hi Paul

Lap times and drivers who are actualy driving them cars in competition are what i am working with.

Yet again you like to argue with no idea of what you are actualy talking about. End off

Cheers Matt


On the contrary Matt,anyone reading through this thread,apart from getting bored with it all by now as I am,will see that your not in touch with what developements are being made in RGB,when you ask in a earlier post

Hi
Just out of interest what form of motorsport are we talking about where a conventional 7 can not beat a Riot.

Cheers Matt

And when it is then pointed out to you what the Riot Wolfe ZXR is achieving in the RGB,finishing 2nd in class at its last outing,and 6th overal out of a field of 26 cars,and 4 out of 6 of the cars that finished in front of him were also Midi's and not conventional Sevens,but you still insist,its me that has no idea what I am talking about.
But I am sure anyone reading this thread will realise you have conflicting interests with other kit car companys,so they will take this into account when reading any of your posts.





[Edited on 19/05/04 by PAUL FISHER]

Bobbus - 8/7/09 at 09:03 PM

Just thought I'd add some extra info for you guys - the RGB lap record set by Gordon Griffin in his Mission T5 is 1.14.23 and Derek Jones in his BDN S2 set a time of 1.14.33 earlier this year (and has gone a lot quicker in testing).

PAUL FISHER - 9/7/09 at 12:04 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Bobbus
Just thought I'd add some extra info for you guys - the RGB lap record set by Gordon Griffin in his Mission T5 is 1.14.23 and Derek Jones in his BDN S2 set a time of 1.14.33 earlier this year (and has gone a lot quicker in testing).



Yes Bobbus,those are some very quick times,the BDN S2 is far faster than the rest of the field,its set the bench mark for the others to follow,the wolfe Riot,and the rest of the field,have got a way to go to get to those times,but at least the BDN S2 goes to show,what a small compact Midi is capable of,with the right development and driver contrary to what some people think



[Edited on 19/05/04 by PAUL FISHER]

T66 - 27/7/09 at 07:34 PM

Called in at MK today, Martin took me out for a short blast in the Midi....

You need to go see this one folks, for a prototype first build, it is superb.

Martin admits he is still tweaking the car, as he feels it can be improved beyond its already excellent performance. It is on rails....

Car pootled about lovely round town , and was very comfortable , given it has shell type seats. The small wind deflector screen throws the kak just enough to keep it out of your face.

I asked if there were plans for a full cage, Martin has already been asked and will be looking at that eventually.

The overall size of the car is small, and will suit those building with limited room (me), it fits easily in a single garage.

I cannot recomend enough folks, go see the Midi !

Martin and his crew are a real friendly bunch, the quality of their engineering is excellent.

I need to sort my finances out Martin ! I will be back in the New Year for a Midi ...

progers - 14/8/09 at 09:04 AM

Just thought I would add some relevant input to this debate. I know Tony Gaunt and his RGB car and have seen him develop the car over the last 2 years. It would be a fair statement to say that the underlying R1ot chassis has given him issues with the backend of the car being particularly frisky! However, overtime he has improved it and with some aero mods is now getting some good performance out of the car. As with all new cars development takes time and with the case of Mid engined cars it can be a tricky business getting a good balance to give you confidence. Overall though, they should get to be at least as good as their front engined competitors, if not a tad better once fully developed.

Tony is running a 2006 ZX10 motor. Last year I was doing high 1.17's in a Phoenix running a less powerful 2003 R1 motor. A 2006 R1 engined Phoenix did low 1.17's this year so at the moment the R1OT chassis has still a way to go to better the more developed chassis out there. I'm sure it can be done though.

I will be racing Snett later this year in my new mid engined car. Both Derek and I are looking to beat the existing record having both beaten it during testing - weather permitting of course

- Paul