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Author: Subject: F1 tyres
eccsmk

posted on 7/7/09 at 04:56 PM Reply With Quote
F1 tyres

why do they run such large side walls??
where as touring cars run really low profile tyres??

slightly random but im sure someone on here will know
thank you






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clairetoo

posted on 7/7/09 at 04:57 PM Reply With Quote
Cuz if the sidewalls were shorter , the tread wouldnt reach the floor ?
















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designer

posted on 7/7/09 at 05:08 PM Reply With Quote
For some reason the aspect ratio of F1 tyres is set by the regulations.

No idea why, but probably introduced when Tyrell did the six wheeler.

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omega0684

posted on 7/7/09 at 05:12 PM Reply With Quote
i would imagine it has something to do with the ride height of the car, if an f1 cars tyres were any lower the belly of the car would be scraping the floor
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speedyxjs

posted on 7/7/09 at 05:22 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by omega0684
i would imagine it has something to do with the ride height of the car, if an f1 cars tyres were any lower the belly of the car would be scraping the floor


No 'cos the wheels would be made bigger. I think it is to do with the spring in the tyre. We all know how hard suspension they run. Now imagine if there was virtually no flex in the tyre wall





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Steve G

posted on 7/7/09 at 05:25 PM Reply With Quote
The rules state the wheels must be 13" (and they wont increase that as it limits the brakes) so they have to run those profiles really.
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russbost

posted on 7/7/09 at 05:31 PM Reply With Quote
The profiles are actually very low, the tyres are something like 335/35's. The reason the sidewalls seem so big is simply a function of the width of the tyre, 35% of 335 is just under 120mm, or nearly 5" in old money.
Touring car tyres are only about 8 or 9", say 245/35's so 35% is only 86mm, or about 3 & 1/2 ".
Nothing to do with scraping the belly as that would change in the design phase etc, changing ride height is a very mundane excersize in the high spec world of F1!





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scudderfish

posted on 7/7/09 at 05:58 PM Reply With Quote
I thought it was because about half the suspension travel is in the sidewall.
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200mph

posted on 7/7/09 at 06:02 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by scudderfish
I thought it was because about half the suspension travel is in the sidewall.


trying to recall an explanation given by Martin Brundle and they slo-mo'd the car so you could see how much the tyre deformed over bumps etc. Pretty sure he said a large function of the 'high' tyres was shock absorbance





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brianthemagical

posted on 7/7/09 at 06:42 PM Reply With Quote
Regulations govern a 13" rim, speed of vehicle and consequent rotational speed of wheel give some factors. Bigger tyres have bigger contact patch, more compliance. The only reason there's so much chassis movement from the tyres is because of the tyre, not the tyre be designed as such, and the spring rates being so high due to areo loads.

Most sutible vehicle runs 13's, from F1, through F Ford, to small tin tops, it's just a good comprimise in brake size, weight and handling/feel.

Other cars user bigger wheels for looks. Mainly 17's, big, high class cars with 13's would look gash. 17" is a similar senario, in that it is set as a standard and most other forms of motorsport use them as the tyres are already developed.

[Edited on 7/7/09 by brianthemagical]

[Edited on 12/7/09 by brianthemagical]

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balidey

posted on 7/7/09 at 07:17 PM Reply With Quote
Why do touring cars has small tyre walls?
Go to the next BTCC round, look at the pretty cars going fast. now look in the car park. See all the people who have 'race tuned' their cars? Scraping the floor, wheels tucked up under the arches, rubber band tyres, oversized wheels?

Manufacturers can sell this tosh to the people that think thats 'tuning'

try selling 60 profile tyres on 13" wheels to the trevs in Halfords.

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Stuart_B

posted on 7/7/09 at 07:19 PM Reply With Quote
there is some good info there.

stuart

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balidey

posted on 7/7/09 at 07:27 PM Reply With Quote
also, F1 is dictated by sponsorship revenue.
Look how much more area you have on a large tyre sidewall for the manufacturers logo.

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clbarclay

posted on 12/7/09 at 12:27 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 200mph
quote:
Originally posted by scudderfish
I thought it was because about half the suspension travel is in the sidewall.


trying to recall an explanation given by Martin Brundle and they slo-mo'd the car so you could see how much the tyre deformed over bumps etc. Pretty sure he said a large function of the 'high' tyres was shock absorbance


That goes for any tyred vehicle. A fairly basic tool for mathematically analysing car suspension is the Quarter vehicle model, which obviously looks at one corner of the vehicle in isolation.

This comprises of 2 masses, representing the 'sprung' and 'unsprung' weights. The unsprung weight is still connected to the ground by a spring and damper (remember this is mathematical not physical) which represent the stiffness and energy absorbing properties of the tyre. There is then a second spring and damper between the sprung and unsprung weight representing the cars physical spring and damper.

Similar to this, but the model I've used included a damper between the unsprung weight and ground



What F1 teams use to model and predict suspesnion I don't know, but at the leavel ther are dealing with a simple spring and damper is a gross simplification of the complex properties of tyres.

[Edited on 12/7/09 by clbarclay]






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eccsmk

posted on 12/7/09 at 05:44 PM Reply With Quote
wow some really in depth answers
i have a much better idea now
thank you all for your responces







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