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Tuition fees
Ninehigh - 19/9/11 at 08:47 PM

Found out this morning that people in scotland aren't paying tuition fees and those in Wales pay a max of £3500 ish per year. I understand from this forum that it means the Welsh and Scottish are, in turn, not getting something us English are, but I'm yet to see what I get in England that isn't free in Wales.. Anyone like to fill me in on this?

daviep - 19/9/11 at 09:05 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
Found out this morning that people in scotland aren't paying tuition fees and those in Wales pay a max of £3500 ish per year. I understand from this forum that it means the Welsh and Scottish are, in turn, not getting something us English are, but I'm yet to see what I get in England that isn't free in Wales.. Anyone like to fill me in on this?


Ain't life a bitch sometimes

mcerd1 - 19/9/11 at 09:14 PM

you got some free riots

Macbeast - 19/9/11 at 09:14 PM

Better weather

zilspeed - 19/9/11 at 09:26 PM

AND !!!

You don't get forced to eat these either !

Square sausage on a Morton's roll.

MMMmmmm......


v8kid - 19/9/11 at 09:41 PM

Jobs?

keith777 - 19/9/11 at 10:16 PM

I love square sausages-and scotch pies -mmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!

keith777 - 19/9/11 at 10:20 PM

P.s they get free prescriptions and glasses in scotland too -(but I never told ya)!!

blakep82 - 19/9/11 at 10:37 PM

the scottish politicians will do anything to please the voters and get them on side to split the UK, if that does happen, then i think wales and scotlands taxes will shoot right up because i don't think we can afford to keep going like this...
its like communism, which as we all know is brilliant in theory, but doesn't work in practice

austin man - 19/9/11 at 10:38 PM

we give, we dont get, our strain on the benefits system is far greater than the other 2. Simples realy get Britain working well not that simple even if we do would you really expect and benefits as a worker who pays tax

Contencious oooh

eddbaz - 20/9/11 at 01:47 AM

Great, my tax paid here in england is helping to pay for free tuition in Scotland while my kids accure student det here, life is a bitch.

morcus - 20/9/11 at 03:35 AM

You have to pay some sort of graduation charge in Scotland if your scottish. I went to University in Scotland and I'm sure when we added up all of the various weird charges and tax bits and bobs that there wasn't as big a gulf, though fees in Scotland were at the time about half what they were in England. My Brother attends Bangor University in Wales and he gets all kinds of perks, Including some sort of Grant for going to university in wales.

The moral of the story is, apply for Universities outside of England.

mcerd1 - 20/9/11 at 07:22 AM

quote:
Originally posted by morcus
The moral of the story is, apply for Universities outside of England.

but not edinburgh or st. andrews - they both just decided to charge english students £9000 for every year your there (and that could be 5 years for a masters up here...)

Ninehigh - 20/9/11 at 07:29 AM

quote:
Originally posted by keith777
I love square sausages-and scotch pies -mmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!


I like square sausage too Just the right shape to go on the bacon buttie

Well that's what I mean, Wales and Scotland also get free prescriptions, Wales don't charge for parking in hospitals, so what do we get in England that they don't? Lower council tax? Better funded schools?

cliftyhanger - 20/9/11 at 07:31 AM

My kids are currently 16 and 14. So I have been thinking.....
is there anything to stop me buying a house/flat in Scotland, designate it my main home (keeping our current house as a holiday home ) and then sending them to a Scottish Uni. In fact, they could then live in the place, saving rent.
Just a thought....

But yes, saw some figures a while ago that implied spending per capita in the UK is far from even between the 4 countries. England comes worse off by a fair margin



edit for fat fingers

[Edited on 20/9/11 by cliftyhanger]

David Jenkins - 20/9/11 at 07:42 AM

The Scottish fees thing is currently heading for the European court...

If you're English you pay the £9000 p.a. fees.
If you're Scottish, or from anywhere else in the EU then you don't pay the fees.

This is totally against all the EU rules.

Benzine - 20/9/11 at 07:44 AM

quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
is there anything to stop me buying a house/flat in Scotland, designate it my main home (keeping our current house as a holiday home ) and then sending them to a Scottish Uni.


I believe you have to have lived in scotland at least 3 years previous to be eligible for free tuition

britishtrident - 20/9/11 at 07:54 AM

quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
The Scottish fees thing is currently heading for the European court...

If you're English you pay the £9000 p.a. fees.
If you're Scottish, or from anywhere else in the EU then you don't pay the fees.

This is totally against all the EU rules.


It isn't because it is based on residence not nationality or place of birth.

mcerd1 - 20/9/11 at 07:58 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Benzine
quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
is there anything to stop me buying a house/flat in Scotland, designate it my main home (keeping our current house as a holiday home ) and then sending them to a Scottish Uni.

I believe you have to have lived in scotland at least 3 years previous to be eligible for free tuition

and you'll still have to make sure they don't want to go to edinburgh or st. andrews - or you'll have a heart attack when yo see the price of a small flat

hughpinder - 20/9/11 at 08:07 AM

Not quite, I am researching it at the moment.
If you are English you need to be resident for 5 years before the course acceptance date. If you are from anywhere else in the EU you can rent a house is scotland and claim its your main residence, and the next day start your course and its free. Since the student will need somewhere to live, this is a no brainer - you're French, so you rent a house for the duration of the course, claim its your main residence, at voila - free university. So we are also paying for free university for the 20% of the scottish university population that are from the EU. I have been looking at changing my nationality from british to 'citizen of the EU' but its hard to tell if this would have the desired effect.

To quote from wikipedia (not 100% reliable I know)

"Following devolution, tuition fees were first abolished in Scotland and replaced with charge after graduation - the graduate endowment - to help pay for tuition.[9] The endowment system itself was later abolished so that all students domiciled and studying at Scottish universities did not have to pay any fees towards their tuition costs.[10] The Welsh Assembly, because of its limited powers in comparison with their Scottish counterparts, remained with the caps imposed on the level of tuition as established by the United Kingdom government. However whereas the United Kingdom government chose to replace means-tested maintenance grants for living expenses whilst at university with a student loan scheme, the Welsh Assembly re-introduced these for Welsh students either studying in Wales or anywhere else in the United Kingdom"

Regards
Hugh

gallons perminute - 20/9/11 at 09:21 AM

You have to be pretty stupid to have a system that charges for education..............................................

that said most of the educated classes have been ripping us of for years, so it is very much in their interest to keep folk uneducated.

A friend gave up law recently because £100k is not enough. When he "bought" in to the profession in the early 80s there were 8000 lawyers in Scotland, there are now 28,000 according to him.

blakep82 - 20/9/11 at 09:36 AM

quote:
Originally posted by eddbaz
Great, my tax paid here in england is helping to pay for free tuition in Scotland while my kids accure student det here, life is a bitch.


not quite as simple as that, we do pay tax here too you know. plus, remember all that lovely north sea oil and gas that comes into aberdeen? where do you suppose all that money goes?

vanepico - 20/9/11 at 09:47 AM

i for one am enjoying it, £5000 interest free loan to help me build a haynes roadster!

britishtrident - 20/9/11 at 09:58 AM

quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
quote:
Originally posted by Benzine
quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
is there anything to stop me buying a house/flat in Scotland, designate it my main home (keeping our current house as a holiday home ) and then sending them to a Scottish Uni.

I believe you have to have lived in scotland at least 3 years previous to be eligible for free tuition

and you'll still have to make sure they don't want to go to edinburgh or st. andrews - or you'll have a heart attack when yo see the price of a small flat


A very large proportion of students at St Andrews have always come from english public schools.

Never mind price of renting in the St Andrews area is about to fall when the coalition closes down Leuchars.

mcerd1 - 20/9/11 at 10:42 AM

quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
Never mind price of renting in the St Andrews area is about to fall when the coalition closes down Leuchars.

I thought they were going to move the army in once the RAF have gone ?

phoenix70 - 20/9/11 at 11:55 AM

if you want to blame anyone for this debacle, blame the UK government, instead of wasting money on Wars, Aircraft Carriers, MP Expenses, Foreign Aid, Nuclear weapon systems, etc, etc, etc, they might have enough money to give the kids free tuition.

britishtrident - 20/9/11 at 12:16 PM

quote:
Originally posted by phoenix70
if you want to blame anyone for this debacle, blame the UK government, instead of wasting money on Wars, Aircraft Carriers, MP Expenses, Foreign Aid, Nuclear weapon systems, etc, etc, etc, they might have enough money to give the kids free tuition.



That Foreign Aid has increased makes my blood boil it isn't even tied to British companies getting any contracts that result. The aid money or at least 95% of it all ends up ion the hands of local dictators and gangsters anyway.

Trident why the F do we need it anymore except to make who ever is at number 10 feel one of the big boys, we can deliver nukes to any likely target by much simpler means that don't depend on giving vast sums to the US.

Aircraft carriers we actually might need but they scrapped the bloody (freshly rebuilt) aircraft and have wasted a huge ammount of money on developing a special version of US aircraft that dosen't deliver instead we forced to order a non stol/Vtol version that we could have had much cheaper. The hulls will be rusted through and the aircraft obsolete before a single sortie is flown

Lack of aircraft carriers might be less of a problem if we hadn't scrapped the rebuilt Nimrods that we had already given BAE billions for -- rant over !


[Edited on 20/9/11 by britishtrident]

fesycresy - 20/9/11 at 12:25 PM

quote:
Originally posted by phoenix70
if you want to blame anyone for this debacle, blame the UK government, instead of wasting money on Wars, Aircraft Carriers, MP Expenses, Foreign Aid, Nuclear weapon systems, etc, etc, etc, they might have enough money to give the kids free tuition.


You forgot immigrants, lazy sick spongers and dole lay-abouts.

cliftyhanger - 20/9/11 at 12:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by fesycresy
quote:
Originally posted by phoenix70
if you want to blame anyone for this debacle, blame the UK government, instead of wasting money on Wars, Aircraft Carriers, MP Expenses, Foreign Aid, Nuclear weapon systems, etc, etc, etc, they might have enough money to give the kids free tuition.


You forgot immigrants, lazy sick spongers and dole lay-abouts.


oh dear, I am probably in there somewhere then.
Besides, my opinion is firmly that over half the university population really shouldn't be there. If average and above get into uni, it tends to devalue a degree rather.
And many uni's are selling courses that have no useful purpose. As in no employers takes the resulting degree seriously.
No, I am not being a snob, trying to down the students or anything else. What this country really needs are far more people learning to do real jobs that are worthwhile. They used to be called apprenticeships, but have all but disappeared

On the other hand, having seen the way loans etc will be paid back, it doesn't seem unreasonable

scootz - 20/9/11 at 01:00 PM

I agree with a lot of what you say... there are FAR too many university students and too many 'nothing' degrees.

Ninehigh - 20/9/11 at 01:29 PM

True, it would appear the English are being the victim of discrimitation...

mcerd1 - 20/9/11 at 01:59 PM

quote:
Originally posted by scootz
I agree with a lot of what you say... there are FAR too many university students and too many 'nothing' degrees.
Another part of that problem is that the useful degrees (e.g. engineering, science, medicine, etc....) are generally the really expensive ones to teach

when I did my engineering degree a few years back we must have had an average of 20 hours of lectures a week over the whole 4 years (first year was something like 35 hours a week) and we had a massive workshop full of expensive toys - compare that to an arts degree with a couple of hours a week teaching time and minimal facilities


quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
Lack of aircraft carriers might be less of a problem if we hadn't scrapped the rebuilt Nimrods that we had already given BAE billions for -- rant over !
what do you expect form the same MOD who ordered the 'wrong kind' of chinooks

[Edited on 20/9/2011 by mcerd1]

morcus - 20/9/11 at 07:44 PM

You can blame the last government for the number of extra people at uni who shouldn't be there and the whole thing cause a huge number of problems, e.g. there are a huge number of jobs you have to have a degree to have a chance of getting that really don't need a qualification like that. Devolution is a massive waste of money in itself, do people really need there area to be represented by about 4 different representatives who are all getting a salary much higher than the average working wage? 4 people who though representing the same people could quite easilly be working against each other and in cases have no say whatsoever over what happens in their own constituency? When I lived in Glasgow I voted to send soemone else to city council, then someone to Hollyrood to over rule him, then someone else to westminster who was also over ruled by the last man, then someone else to Brussels to sit on comittees that could Veto anything any of the other three did.

Kwik - 21/9/11 at 01:02 PM

as i will be a student (as of next saturday) i want my education to be free. my year is the last of the "cheap" uni fees paing "only" £3500...

my opinion is dont go to war, stop spending money on foreign aid and paying benefits to those who dont contribute to society (i personally know of a few) and start making this country more educated in things that matter. scrap music degrees and dance degrees etc, you are far more succesfull if you go to a dedicated dance or music collage than you will ever be with a degree, and make higher A levels harder.

on the student room forum there was a post comparing English 6th form with the American equivalent. he said how an A grade here is only a C grade over there. we should stop dumbing down and start setting standards higher.