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2014 F1 engines. 1.6 v6 turbo
daniel mason - 10/12/11 at 10:58 AM

What sort of power are these units expected to make for the 2014 season. And what will they sound like compared to the current 2.4 liter v8

MikeR - 10/12/11 at 11:01 AM

Are they rev limited like the current engines? If not i'd expect an even higher pitched scream as i'd guess they'd go really short stroke but quieter (due to the turbo).

designer - 10/12/11 at 11:09 AM

They will certainly NOt sound like the best F1 sound ever - Ferrari 3ltr V12.

zilspeed - 10/12/11 at 11:16 AM

They're tubocharged, therefore muted.
They have less cylinders, therefore lower pitched engine note.
They have a lower rev limit, see above.

It doesn't bode well.

The days of 20,000 rpm V8s and V10s are gone forever.

mrwibble - 10/12/11 at 11:22 AM

well in 1988

(from wikipedia

"1988 Honda with its RA168E turbo V6 producing 685 hp (511 kW) at 12500 rpm" which was 1.5l?

I think i read 800bhp was the aim (don't know if that was with kers) but i can't find the article on the bbc now. no idea what the rev limit will be.

balidey - 10/12/11 at 11:38 AM

V16 BRM, 1.5 litre supercharged produced around 600hp. That was in the mid 50's.
Now THAT engine note was something.
You've never lived until you've heard the BRM V16 go past at speed.
Lets hope we're heading that was again.

zilspeed - 10/12/11 at 11:41 AM

quote:
Originally posted by mrwibble
well in 1988

(from wikipedia

"1988 Honda with its RA168E turbo V6 producing 685 hp (511 kW) at 12500 rpm" which was 1.5l?

I think i read 800bhp was the aim (don't know if that was with kers) but i can't find the article on the bbc now. no idea what the rev limit will be.



Listen to the honda compared to a current engine though.

Blehhh....

mrwibble - 10/12/11 at 12:21 PM

well the move to v6 turbos with small capacity isn't to please the ears of spectators its to encourage more money from eco-conscious sponsors and manufacturers - there is talk of VW producing engines. TBH the only thing i really care about is close racing, the soundtrack is not really an issue.

40inches - 10/12/11 at 12:38 PM

quote:
Originally posted by balidey
V16 BRM, 1.5 litre supercharged produced around 600hp. That was in the mid 50's.
Now THAT engine note was something.
You've never lived until you've heard the BRM V16 go past at speed.
Lets hope we're heading that was again.


Still makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up You Tube

MikeRJ - 10/12/11 at 12:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mrwibble
well the move to v6 turbos with small capacity isn't to please the ears of spectators its to encourage more money from eco-conscious sponsors and manufacturers - there is talk of VW producing engines. TBH the only thing i really care about is close racing, the soundtrack is not really an issue.


For me (and I suspect a majority of F1 fans) the sound of F1 cars is an essential part of it's appeal.

mrwibble - 10/12/11 at 01:00 PM

for the majority of fans who watch it on tele, and can't really hear the cars properly anyway?

if it was a real spectator sport, and not just a once in a year occasion to actually be trackside (if your lucky), i might agree.

zilspeed - 10/12/11 at 02:13 PM

F1 cars must sound like nothing else on earth.

If they sound like lesser formulae, what's the point ?

As it is, Renault World Series cars will sound better.

mrwibble - 10/12/11 at 02:18 PM

quote:
Originally posted by zilspeed
F1 cars must sound like nothing else on earth.

If they sound like lesser formulae, what's the point ?

As it is, Renault World Series cars will sound better.


what do you mean what is the point? the point is the fastest cars, with the most skilled drivers, its not a competition for blind people to judge which one sounds best.

do you think the drivers care what it sounds like? no they just care what its like to drive and if it makes them competitive.

Mr G - 10/12/11 at 02:29 PM

quote:
Originally posted by zilspeed
The days of 20,000 rpm V8s and V10s are gone forever.


People thought the same thing about the use of ground effect & turbo's

zilspeed - 10/12/11 at 02:39 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mrwibble
quote:
Originally posted by zilspeed
F1 cars must sound like nothing else on earth.

If they sound like lesser formulae, what's the point ?

As it is, Renault World Series cars will sound better.


what do you mean what is the point? the point is the fastest cars, with the most skilled drivers, its not a competition for blind people to judge which one sounds best.

do you think the drivers care what it sounds like? no they just care what its like to drive and if it makes them competitive.


I bet the drivers do care what it sound like.
So do the teams.

That's why the rules were rejigged from 4 cylinder engines to V6s. To please the teams and the people that pay the bills.

Bernie cares too.

It's a sport which must thrill all of the senses. That includes the sound.

mrwibble - 10/12/11 at 03:02 PM

hmmm. thats a bit like saying the driver and the teams would want the car that looks the sharpest, when really they just want the car that wins, and they wouldn't really care if it was a dog and sounded like duck farting.

To some extent i agree the thrill and atmosphere of being at the race is important, but i think close battling races and a close championship would more likely please the crowd, and bernie as it would increase his audiences world wide.

I for one wouldn't be pleased for a race to be boring but sound great and nor would the X k people in the stands.

Not that 1.6 turbo engines have anything to do with close racing, but neither does sound for that matter.

+ we haven't even heard the cars yet... so lets wait and see?

MikeRJ - 10/12/11 at 03:44 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mrwibble
for the majority of fans who watch it on tele, and can't really hear the cars properly anyway?

if it was a real spectator sport, and not just a once in a year occasion to actually be trackside (if your lucky), i might agree.


Especialy when watching on a TV the engine sounds give much of the atmosphere that makes F1 races interesting. If you are going to have droning 4 pots you might as well stick to watching something like Formula Ford which at least gives closer racing and more battles than the average F1 race these days.

Dangle_kt - 10/12/11 at 03:57 PM

electric will be the propulsion of choice in the next decade or so.

Pretty much silent, but I'm certain will outmatch an ICE engine soon.

Nash - 10/12/11 at 03:58 PM

Some sounds should be preserved

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK0vIXwxO9c

................ Neil

scudderfish - 10/12/11 at 05:19 PM

Renault 1.5l V6 turbo of the 80's got towards 1200bhp

http://www.gurneyflap.com/renaultef15.html

phelpsa - 10/12/11 at 05:37 PM

As I understand it there is a rev limit of 15k and there will also be a boost limit. These will be adjusted in subsequent seasons to achieve performance that the FIA deem suitable, but at the start we're looking at 750ish bhp plus 120kw (160bhp) of KERS from compound charging and conventional recovery. We were reassured in a lecture last year by a Merc HPE design engineer that noise was going to be a 'serious consideration'.

[Edited on 10-12-11 by phelpsa]

MakeEverything - 10/12/11 at 05:57 PM

quote:
Originally posted by scudderfish
Renault 1.5l V6 turbo of the 80's got towards 1200bhp

http://www.gurneyflap.com/renaultef15.html


Simply beautiful.

Johneturbo - 10/12/11 at 06:08 PM

Like the majority have said the sound is very important, we went up to MK today for the redbull demo and the sound was the most impressive thing for us, not seeing mark webber or vettel
having said that they didn't sound proper loud(like at goodwood festival) so wonder if they had muted them a little to be able to run on the public roads!

mrwibble - 10/12/11 at 07:06 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by mrwibble
for the majority of fans who watch it on tele, and can't really hear the cars properly anyway?

if it was a real spectator sport, and not just a once in a year occasion to actually be trackside (if your lucky), i might agree.


Especialy when watching on a TV the engine sounds give much of the atmosphere that makes F1 races interesting. If you are going to have droning 4 pots you might as well stick to watching something like Formula Ford which at least gives closer racing and more battles than the average F1 race these days.


i don't think the noise from my tele gives me a tenth of the atmosphere of being at the track, but then again u might have a better set of speakers than me. F1 apart from being one of the few motorsports available on what was terrestial tv, is the pinnacle of motorsport engineering where the best drivers in the world compete and i want to see them a gnats arsehole from the edge. IMO f1 has become much more entertaining of late, and its not the noise thats attracted people. BTW i like a nice noise like everyone else, i just don't think f1 is spoilt because v8+ engines aren't currently in fashion.

oh and its amazing what engineers can do to an exhaust note if they want to, the days of organic beautiful sounds is well over methinks.

to end, i think we should thank ourselves lucky we haven't reached the end of the internal combustion engines, if ur upset by v6 turbos god knows what you lot will do then...

[Edited on 10/12/11 by mrwibble]

[Edited on 10/12/11 by mrwibble]