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theconrodkid - 13/5/12 at 07:40 PM

greek bail out talks have failed,no more EU cash for them,they are toast
could this be the end of the euro and the EU?....i hope so,i like being a "little islander"


Ninehigh - 13/5/12 at 07:52 PM

Why should it? Maybe Greece would be kicked out


ditchlewis - 13/5/12 at 08:08 PM

had a feeling this would happen from the start, the greeks lied about their finances just to join the euro and nobody fully checked their new friends out.

a fact that i read on the bbc web site was only the spanish have followed All the rules of the euro. the greeks have broken just about all the rules, and the french and germans have broken 3 to 4 of the 9 rules.

the euro wont work if they all bend the rules and i think it will reduce to a small number of core countries.

greece will be grease

ditch

[Edited on 13/5/12 by ditchlewis]


Puzzled - 13/5/12 at 08:40 PM

Hey conradkid

You seem to have some form of perverse pleasure in others misfortune. Its no joke to witness a nation on its knees. Do you think your "little Island" will be immune from fall out if the Eurozone collapses??. Be careful what you wish for.


computid - 13/5/12 at 08:50 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Puzzled
Hey conradkid

You seem to have some form of perverse pleasure in others misfortune. Its no joke to witness a nation on its knees. Do you think your "little Island" will be immune from fall out if the Eurozone collapses??. Be careful what you wish for.


Someones got a bee in their bonnet...


iank - 13/5/12 at 09:23 PM

Anyone have a reference to this? I can't find anything on the BBC website, only that the Greek coalition talks have broken down, a rather different story and means nothing for the bailout (though depending on who finally forms a government it could trigger all sorts of possibilities).


ditchlewis - 13/5/12 at 09:29 PM

the way the worlds finances work today no one will be unaffected by the greek failure... british banks were the 3rd largest holders of debt behind the germans and the french.

this is going to get messy and may trigger another worldwide resession.

if greese pulls out of the euro then things will only get worse for the greek people and i would hate to be living there at the moment. with their currency devalued the cost of imports such as cars, cloathing, fuel supplies will sky rocket for them. unfortunatly they do not have major manufacturing base to get them through.

i really would not want to be living there at the moment.

ditch


Hector.Brocklebank - 13/5/12 at 09:50 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Puzzled
Hey conradkid

You seem to have some form of perverse pleasure in others misfortune. Its no joke to witness a nation on its knees. Do you think your "little Island" will be immune from fall out if the Eurozone collapses??. Be careful what you wish for.


I am sorry but having lived and attempted to work alongside the greasy, lazy, lying, corrupt Greeks the only thing they deserve is all they get, and its not a misfortune when they induced the problem themselves due to lying,cheating and avoiding taxes, and that's all FACTS.


designer - 13/5/12 at 10:48 PM

quote:

the greeks lied about their finances



The EEC moved the goalposts to let Greece in, a continuation of their quest to make the EEC bigger.


Greece would never have meet the criteria, and neither did any of the last few entries.


RK - 14/5/12 at 12:12 AM

It may have been dirty pool to let the Greeks in, but they are in, and whether they deserve this or not, will not change the fact that there are going to be consequences for all of us, including my country.


theconrodkid - 14/5/12 at 06:09 AM

Oh dear,i seem to have opened a can of worms.
this once great island once ruled a third of the world,now we are skint and the dumping ground for the world,s undesirables and ruled by those we defeated in two world wars.
the EU cost.s us a lot of money in many ways,who paid for all the new roads across eastern europe,i have seen the rise of Poland from a tatty hole where if you were lucky you had a trabant,now everyone has a merc or BMW.
what do you think will happen when Turkey gets the nod?
time we ruled ourselves again and pulled out of this corrupt "club".
here endeth the rant for today


norm007 - 14/5/12 at 07:21 AM

quote:
Originally posted by theconrodkid
Oh dear,i seem to have opened a can of worms.
this once great island once ruled a third of the world,now we are skint and the dumping ground for the world,s undesirables and ruled by those we defeated in two world wars.
the EU cost.s us a lot of money in many ways,who paid for all the new roads across eastern europe,i have seen the rise of Poland from a tatty hole where if you were lucky you had a trabant,now everyone has a merc or BMW.
what do you think will happen when Turkey gets the nod?
time we ruled ourselves again and pulled out of this corrupt "club".
here endeth the rant for today






No, Please carry on ranting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are only saying what a helluva lot of people are thinking.

The Greeks will just end up been offered housing, NHS,Education and unemployment benefit etc in this country??????????????


ditchlewis - 14/5/12 at 07:38 AM

quote:
Originally posted by designer
quote:

the greeks lied about their finances



The EEC moved the goalposts to let Greece in, a continuation of their quest to make the EEC bigger.


Greece would never have meet the criteria, and neither did any of the last few entries.


And that's what worries me are the greeks just the first and all our major trading partners ( the EU) going to fall like domino's?

Are we the only nation who follow the rules set out by the EU or should we be like the other members and pick and choose the ones we like the look of?

Ditch


Puzzled - 14/5/12 at 08:13 AM

"Scratch a Brit, and under his skin, you will find, an Imperialist" ------ Shades of truth,are beginning to surface in this thread.
"greasy,lazy and corrupt" ---- Fair description of our Political Masters in Dublin and London.
" B in Bonnett" ------ Really? . Is that the Best you can come up with???.

For the sensible contributors . I agree that this situation is very serious.Dont know what the consequences will be if contagion takes hold , but it wont be easy on ANY country.


Not Anumber - 14/5/12 at 10:23 AM

I think Greece just needs to be offered a truce - an exemption from paying any interest for the money already borrowed so long as they make a start on paying back the capital. It's easy for the Germans to insist on applying more and heavier austerity measures but they recognise from their own history after WW 1 this is no way of making people maleable and compliant it just makes them downtrodden, angry and resentful. The power of the EU as weilded by Germany and France is frightening- I couldn’t believe it when Angela Merkel got to view the proposed Irish budget before most of the Irish Government.

Thank heavens France has given Tea Cozy the order of the boot - we might now see some proper balance against the otherwise unstoppable growth of the 4th Reich (aka the EU).


designer - 14/5/12 at 10:34 AM

quote:

I think Greece just needs to be offered a truce - an exemption from paying any interest for the money already borrowed



Why?

Will the next country get a free bailout too?

Germany started with austerity after the war, and it became there building block.

France cannot afford what Hollande proposes. I have friends here who retired on huge pensions at 53! A pension for a rertired teacher at 56 is well over a 1000€!! It's not sustainable.


ditchlewis - 14/5/12 at 10:51 AM

Nobody can say we will not be affected by this as UK shares have fallen 1.8% this morning, the french and germans have had bigger falls.

This has global implications, even china has seen a fall in exports this quarter.

The Global financial system needs better controls to prevent the "gambling" of the investment banks (that is all it is).

I read an artical about the mathmatician who came up with the algorithm that has been blamed for the 2008 crash, he defended it by saying that most of the bankers using it did not understand the data it required to be acurate or the information being produced. This is the problem with the autimated investment systems we have today.

I blame the whole problem on computers and greedy people.

Ditch


designer - 14/5/12 at 11:01 AM

quote:

I read an artical about the mathmatician who came up with the algorithm that has been blamed for the 2008 crash



This says it all, when an equation is responsible for a crisis!


steve m - 14/5/12 at 11:50 AM

What i dont understand is "Govements borrowing huge amounts of money, and not paying it back" is all ok

yet if i do not pay back my mortgage or a loan its fraud

also if i was to borrow £500,000 i would need to put up somthing to use against the loan, say my parents houses(hehe)

What do countrys use against thier huge loans? their personlaties?


ditchlewis - 14/5/12 at 11:59 AM

Well said.
The banks trading in stocks and shares are all highly automated - they won't confess how automated but over 30% of all deals are by a computer to another computer. This allows shares to be bought and sold again in under a second . If the wrong perameters are entered into the computer .....well you get the picture.

Some people are too cleaver for their own good.

Ditch


designer - 14/5/12 at 12:21 PM

quote:

The banks trading in stocks and shares are all highly automated



Yes, that's the problem!

We have all had that 'gut feeling' about stuff, the same was before on the stock market, where prople would ignore minor drips.

Now, a line is reached and everything goes into action automatically, causing problems, even the 'gilt edged' stuff is effected.

Maybe the bankers should employ more people to do their 'data input' and buy and sell on the wing?


ditchlewis - 14/5/12 at 12:28 PM

agreed, the government want the kids to go to uni and get a degree, but there are no jobs for them.

get rid of the automated trading and employ some of the degree holders woking in macdonalds.

if you can trade shares in under a second then when there is a twitch in the market this will be accellerated by the computer and faster than a person can see what is happening and put it right.

look at the gambling at JP Morgan £2bn in bad bets

ditch


l0rd - 14/5/12 at 01:15 PM

as me being Greek, should i give you the heads up a bit on how we managed to get to this stage?


RK - 14/5/12 at 01:24 PM

I say forgive most of the debt, let inflation take hold in Greece, and let things even out as they would naturally. The banks are greedy barstewards and can live without a few sheckals at this point.


Ninehigh - 14/5/12 at 07:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by l0rd
as me being Greek, should i give you the heads up a bit on how we managed to get to this stage?


Why do I get the feeling that you're going to describe where the rest of us are at the moment?


02GF74 - 14/5/12 at 07:15 PM

quote:
Originally posted by theconrodkid
,i have seen the rise of Poland from a tatty hole where if you were lucky you had a trabant, now everyone has a merc or BMW.



Sorry but you are talking rubbish. Not everyone has a merc nor bmw and it was not certainly paid for by the EU.

Take a look in the history books to see why Poland was a tatty hole - to help you out: Yalta conference. After WW2 ended, Roosevelt and Churchill, despite having promised to ensure Poland would become a free state, reneged under pressure from Stalin and sold out Poland and other Eastern european countries to the Soviets. The Soviets ruined those countires so it is no surprised a Trabant was a luxury. Poland and the other Eastern European now shaken of the shackles Soviet rule are playing catch up so it is more like the West, like what it should have been if it were not for Yalta.


foskid - 14/5/12 at 07:35 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Puzzled
Hey conradkid

You seem to have some form of perverse pleasure in others misfortune. Its no joke to witness a nation on its knees. Do you think your "little Island" will be immune from fall out if the Eurozone collapses??. Be careful what you wish for.


I think that was a little out of order, I saw no evidence of "Schadenfreude" there. The only people who are in favour of the euro are the bar stewards who are making money out of it to the detriment of all the rest of us. The euro is a currency that should have been drowned at birth.


Simon - 14/5/12 at 07:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
quote:
Originally posted by theconrodkid
,i have seen the rise of Poland from a tatty hole where if you were lucky you had a trabant, now everyone has a merc or BMW.



Sorry but you are talking rubbish. Not everyone has a merc nor bmw and it was not certainly paid for by the EU.

Take a look in the history books to see why Poland was a tatty hole - to help you out: Yalta conference. After WW2 ended, Roosevelt and Churchill, despite having promised to ensure Poland would become a free state, reneged under pressure from Stalin and sold out Poland and other Eastern european countries to the Soviets. The Soviets ruined those countires so it is no surprised a Trabant was a luxury. Poland and the other Eastern European now shaken of the shackles Soviet rule are playing catch up so it is more like the West, like what it should have been if it were not for Yalta.


The point isn't about what happened 60 years ago, the point is going from a derelict, neglected nation created by being part of the soviet union until recently and the eu (read us) paying to bring the country up to a reasonable standard today. Hmm, being part of the soviet union brought down standards in a whole load of countries - is being part of the eu going to do the same to the rest of us!

I doubt the greeks will be out of the euro, the germans won't allow it because it'll be a failure of its little experiment. The french do as the germans tell them anyway so they'll be insist the rest of the eurozone carryon bailing out all the not so well off territories.

You need to bear in mind the the accountants for the EU have never signed off on the eu's accounts cos they never tally. Bent from the top down basically!

ATB

Simon


ashg - 14/5/12 at 08:52 PM

The interesting thing is if everyone is in huge debt who has got all the money hmmmm


chris mason - 14/5/12 at 09:04 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ashg
The interesting thing is if everyone is in huge debt who has got all the money hmmmm


That's part of the reason the world is in this mess, the money never has and never will exist.


Mr G - 14/5/12 at 09:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ashg
The interesting thing is if everyone is in huge debt who has got all the money hmmmm


Bernie Ecclestone


steve m - 14/5/12 at 10:06 PM

is a wanker


woodster - 14/5/12 at 10:23 PM

Is a midget


RK - 14/5/12 at 11:29 PM

And has no money. Or so he says. He does have a lot of cars and real estate (allegedly).

There never was any money; just numbers in a column on a page, on a computer. Seriously. That doesn't mean imaginary figures won't ruin the western world as we know it. Remember, 'real' money, is just a promise to pay the person who has it, with actual stuff/goods. It only represents what the government/bank decides.


blakep82 - 14/5/12 at 11:52 PM

china seem to be doing alright... thats where i reckon its all gone...

interestingly though, as said above, there never was any money. Money doesn't actually exist. a £10 note isn't money, it says on it, the bank of england (or bank of scotland, royal bank of scotland, clydesdale bank etc) promises to pay the bearer on demand, the sum of £5, £10, £20, £50 etc, all you're handing over is a promise that the bank will pay you, but they never do, they just give you more empty promise IOU's in the form of a bit of paper.

and the banks certainly never gave all these notes over either.

weird isn't it. we all worry about something that doesn't really exist. money is a religion really i guess...


Ninehigh - 15/5/12 at 06:45 AM

I shall have to ask the bank for ten pounds in exchange for this note.. See what happens


theconrodkid - 15/5/12 at 07:41 AM

Sorry but you are talking rubbish. Not everyone has a merc nor bmw and it was not certainly paid for by the EU.

Take a look in the history books to see why Poland was a tatty hole - to help you out: Yalta conference. After WW2 ended, Roosevelt and Churchill, despite having promised to ensure Poland would become a free state, reneged under pressure from Stalin and sold out Poland and other Eastern european countries to the Soviets. The Soviets ruined those countires so it is no surprised a Trabant was a luxury. Poland and the other Eastern European now shaken of the shackles Soviet rule are playing catch up so it is more like the West, like what it should have been if it were not for Yalta.


sorry but,on my first visit there the airport was litrally a tin shed on an old milatary base,the whole place was a dump,go now,the airport has a hotel,cargo area and is 3 stories high,new shopping centres in the main towns,new motorways and many more motorways being built,BM and merc dealers abound,there are new industrial estates and houses poping up.
i was there the day they joined the EU,they was celebrating on the street (i wonder why),everyone with a large garden suddenly called it a farm and got subsidies,the change has been incredible.
where did the money come from?


franky - 15/5/12 at 07:59 AM

on the positive side if you're going on holiday in europe your money should go a little further


Agriv8 - 15/5/12 at 08:19 AM

quote:
Originally posted by franky
on the positive side if you're going on holiday in europe your money should go a little further


To buy euros know or see if they creep a little higher 1.22 this morning some say it may get to 1.28 - 1.30 in the comming Months.

Regards

Agriv8


Stott - 15/5/12 at 10:44 AM

Money does exist - coins. Only the paper money is a promise. If you go into the bank and ask for 10 pounds in exchange for a note as ninehigh says, they'll just give you ten - pounds.

Unless the note says 'put all the money in the brown paper bag and keep quiet', then you might end up with a bag of promises, or jail


quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
china seem to be doing alright... thats where i reckon its all gone...

interestingly though, as said above, there never was any money. Money doesn't actually exist. a £10 note isn't money, it says on it, the bank of england (or bank of scotland, royal bank of scotland, clydesdale bank etc) promises to pay the bearer on demand, the sum of £5, £10, £20, £50 etc, all you're handing over is a promise that the bank will pay you, but they never do, they just give you more empty promise IOU's in the form of a bit of paper.

and the banks certainly never gave all these notes over either.

weird isn't it. we all worry about something that doesn't really exist. money is a religion really i guess...


[Edited on 15/5/12 by Stott]


RK - 15/5/12 at 10:53 AM

Yes, but the vast majority of it does not actually exist. The banks loan out many many many many many times what they actually have on deposit. Where does that come from? Other loans look like money to the fabricators called accountants and so it goes.

The sad part is that the populations think the governments are corrupt (yes even in Canada) and don't trust them to sort it. Why do you think the bridges in Montreal are all falling apart after 30 or 40 years, when others have lasted? Corruption in the construction industry, that's why. This is the real problem nowadays.

Please come to our GP. The city needs the money.


Stott - 15/5/12 at 11:06 AM

'twas a joke, I wasn't suggesting there are huge vats of £1 coins stashed around the country, duck tales stylee


RK - 15/5/12 at 11:18 AM

Never sure these days. People get all bent out of shape on the internet! Optimism does not come naturally to some of us.


02GF74 - 15/5/12 at 01:12 PM

quote:
Originally posted by theconrodkid
sorry but,on my first visit there the airport was litrally a tin shed on an old milatary base,the whole place was a dump,go now,the airport has a hotel,cargo area and is 3 stories high,new shopping centres in the main towns,new motorways and many more motorways being built,BM and merc dealers abound,there are new industrial estates and houses poping up.
i was there the day they joined the EU,they was celebrating on the street (i wonder why),everyone with a large garden suddenly called it a farm and got subsidies,the change has been incredible.
where did the money come from?


rather than starting a pissing match, take a look here

I don't think the extra 207 € is quite enough to trade a Trabant for a BMW..... but at least they have something for show for it, unlike the Greeks who received 282 €. If anyone should be pissed off, it is the Dutch.


theconrodkid - 15/5/12 at 07:07 PM

i dont want to get into an argument with anyone,my point is,i would rather belive my own eyes that the words of a politico.
the facts are,like certain types of people,if you gave a random selection of people £1000 and came back a month later,some would have a new TV and some trainers,some would have a house.
the Poles have done very well out of europe and when herman knocks on the door they will have something to show,other countries will have last week,s trainers and a broken TV,the poor saps from GB France and Germany are the ones funding all this.


Simon - 15/5/12 at 08:20 PM

quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
quote:
Originally posted by theconrodkid
sorry but,on my first visit there the airport was litrally a tin shed on an old milatary base,the whole place was a dump,go now,the airport has a hotel,cargo area and is 3 stories high,new shopping centres in the main towns,new motorways and many more motorways being built,BM and merc dealers abound,there are new industrial estates and houses poping up.
i was there the day they joined the EU,they was celebrating on the street (i wonder why),everyone with a large garden suddenly called it a farm and got subsidies,the change has been incredible.
where did the money come from?


rather than starting a pissing match, take a look here

I don't think the extra 207 € is quite enough to trade a Trabant for a BMW..... but at least they have something for show for it, unlike the Greeks who received 282 €. If anyone should be pissed off, it is the Dutch.


What are you on about - that € 207 per head is what the country got from the EU over its own contributions which amounts to (as it says in the article) "Since its accession to the EU the country has received from the European Union EUR50,344,000,000 - over € 50 billion - same with Poland and every other previously broke country. Who do you think pays for it. If all these countries are receiving this sort of money, it's our country along with france and germany et al who's paying for it.

From that page for the UK:

"In 2010 the taxpayers of United Kingdom contributed to the European Union 136 euros per head over what they received. Since its accession to the EU the country has paid to the European Union EUR 94,944,000,000 over what it has received"

ATB

Simon


Peteff - 15/5/12 at 10:25 PM

quote:
Originally posted by theconrodkidi have seen the rise of Poland from a tatty hole where if you were lucky you had a trabant,now everyone has a merc or BMW.



Mostly because they drove their Trabby to Germany and nicked a BMW or Merc and drove it back to Poland Like this. Some of my friends went over to Germany on bikes a couple of years ago and four bikes were stolen, the police found them dumped in a dike waiting to be picked up and just dismissed it out of hand saying it would be Poles.


02GF74 - 16/5/12 at 10:46 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Simon

What are you on about - that € 207 per head is what the country got from the EU over its own contributions which amounts to (as it says in the article) "Since its accession to the EU the country has received from the European Union EUR50,344,000,000 - over € 50 billion - same with Poland and every other previously broke country. Who do you think pays for it. If all these countries are receiving this sort of money, it's our country along with france and germany et al who's paying for it.




What I am in about if you read my post is that of if each person gets € 207 over what they paid, then that is still not enough to purchase a BMW.


02GF74 - 16/5/12 at 10:50 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
quote:
Originally posted by theconrodkidi have seen the rise of Poland from a tatty hole where if you were lucky you had a trabant,now everyone has a merc or BMW.



Mostly because they drove their Trabby to Germany and nicked a BMW or Merc and drove it back to Poland Like this. Some of my friends went over to Germany on bikes a couple of years ago and four bikes were stolen, the police found them dumped in a dike waiting to be picked up and just dismissed it out of hand saying it would be Poles.


Jeez, you really are a bunch of closet racists. Why don't we all dress up in jack boots and invade???

So no cars or bikes are stolen by the British then????? l hazzard a guess that the vehicles stolen and taken abroad be it Poland or anywhere else are a tiny fraction of the number of cars stolen by our very own home grown British chavs. (that is my guess)

anyway, I though this was about the greeks?

[Edited on 16/5/12 by 02GF74]