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Author: Subject: 2K Paint COSHH
Airhead

posted on 11/3/10 at 10:15 AM Reply With Quote
2K Paint COSHH

Hi all

I just wanted to get your opinions on this:

Everybody shudders and gawps in horror if 2 PAK paint is mentioned, portents of doom and the end of the world are proclaimed, strong men pale and go weak at the knees and the earth shakes.

So I thought I'd look into it and found the HSE COSHH sheet on the stuff, it just says contact should be minimal and that there is a low risk of ashma.

SO what's the hype about?

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boggle

posted on 11/3/10 at 10:19 AM Reply With Quote
we will find out after sat mat...





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emsfactory

posted on 11/3/10 at 10:39 AM Reply With Quote
is ther not a differecne between two part and two pac.
One having issocyanates (sp) in it.

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stevec

posted on 11/3/10 at 10:40 AM Reply With Quote
I think long term damage is the potential problem, I used to spray Gipfast and 2K paint about 20 years ago without proper gear. Yes I feel an idiot. I curse my employer for allowing it but health and safety was not as strict then. I now have some breathing and chest probs. Is it linked? May be may be not.
Dont do it.
Steve.

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blakep82

posted on 11/3/10 at 10:43 AM Reply With Quote
but you'll die as soon as you order it!
i know its really dangerous, contains cyanide type stuff, but if you're sensible, wear the correct mask, don't let it get on your skin etc, i think you'll live.
the toxins can be absorbed through the skin and eyes though
i think myself its more a problem with prolonged contact with it, like you spray cars every day.

my godfather used to spray trucks. he's not dead. though he did tell me of a guy who used to spray trucks used the correct mask etc, BUT he didn't wear one when mixing the paint, and thats what did his breathing in

i'm no painter though





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russbost

posted on 11/3/10 at 10:58 AM Reply With Quote
I was quite highly allergic to it would get asthma type symptoms just walking thro' an area where it had been recently used, but I was able to use it fine as long as I used an air fed mask.

The main probs are built up over long term use - bit like one cigarette won't kill you but several thousand there's a good chance they will !!!





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turbodisplay

posted on 11/3/10 at 11:03 AM Reply With Quote
Personally I would say don`t use it.
It is bad for you,plus your neighbours, pets etc.
You are turning the said chemicals into a very fine mist.
With a brush itis not so bad but I still won`t touch it.

You can achieve good results using solvent based spray so I would use that.
Darren

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britishtrident

posted on 11/3/10 at 11:15 AM Reply With Quote
It is really nasty stuff, the more exposed to it the more sensitive you become you feel fine until you reach the point where it can suddenly trigger an sever asthma attack or even a heart attack, sensitivity varies greatly between individuals.

Add to this the fact the over spray is so adherent and so fine it will travel through any filter mask to the deepest reaches of your lungs where it stays.





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boggle

posted on 11/3/10 at 11:28 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by turbodisplay
Personally I would say don`t use it.
It is bad for you,plus your neighbours, pets etc.
You are turning the said chemicals into a very fine mist.
With a brush itis not so bad but I still won`t touch it.

You can achieve good results using solvent based spray so I would use that.
Darren


solvent based is just as bad.....thats why its becoming phased out with waterbase replacing it.....remember that lacquer is 2k unless you use acrylic which is no where near as good......





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Airhead

posted on 11/3/10 at 11:52 AM Reply With Quote
This is the document that sparked my interest:

http://www.images.spiderwebdesign.co.uk/2kpaintCOSHH.pdf

Barry - I'll be safely outside the garage :p

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blakep82

posted on 11/3/10 at 12:03 PM Reply With Quote
quote:

Personal protective equipment (PPE)
 Respiratory protective equipment (RPE) should not be needed if the
ventilation is working properly.



interesting... not convinced by it though. i'd always wear the mask when mixing or spraying





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Russell

posted on 11/3/10 at 12:22 PM Reply With Quote
That's a generic COSHH guidance sheet. You need to get hold of the specific manufacturer's COSHH sheets for anything you are considering using. Unfortuantely, COSHH only applies in the workplace and you don't always get the requisite information if the seller knows you'll only be using it at home.





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MakeEverything

posted on 11/3/10 at 12:30 PM Reply With Quote
Am i the only one aware of the Environment Agency then?

There is specific legislation regarding the use of spray equipment and the material used. Not least should you have a filtration system in the ventilation system, you should also have fume scrubbing plants to make sure your not extracting flammable fumes into the atmosphere.

It escapes me presently, what the regs are, but i do know that the environment agency are involved.

As with all industrial / commercial processes, you should wear the correct PPE (personal Protective Equipment), and install the correct safety precautions / "control measures". Anyone injured or damage could be at your liability.





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Airhead

posted on 11/3/10 at 12:36 PM Reply With Quote
I also just noticed that the sheet was for "mixing" 2k paint, I found this more appropriate one:

http://www.healthandsafetyworksni.gov.uk/safe_ working_with_2-pack_isocyanate_paints_indg_388-2.pdf

[Edited on 11/3/10 by Airhead]

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tomprescott

posted on 11/3/10 at 01:26 PM Reply With Quote
I used 2k when respraying the golf, gave a good finish but definitely gave me headaches after about half an hour of spraying. I found that even a few hours after spraying, when I came back to the garage the air was still heavy with it. ALWAYS use a mask and get correct venting! PPE may be expensive but its cheaper than a funeral!
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MikeR

posted on 11/3/10 at 02:16 PM Reply With Quote
i've just read the gov. cossh pdf. I'm going to ask fozzie to sticky this thread. This question has come up a lot lately with lots of "i've been fine" advice.

I think the pdf sums up the position quite well - you may be fine once, you may not. Its a seriously harmful product, don't risk it.

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posted on 11/3/10 at 05:03 PM Reply With Quote
just how bad does this stuff smell in comparison with cellulose ?
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Cousin Cleotis

posted on 11/3/10 at 05:39 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by boggle
solvent based is just as bad.....thats why its becoming phased out with waterbase replacing it.....remember that lacquer is 2k unless you use acrylic which is no where near as good......


2K automotive paints are generally Acrylic.

If you use the correct PPE then you will be fine if you dont use the correct PPE it doesnt matter what you spray it wont be any good for you.

quote:
Originally posted by MakeEverything
industrial / commercial processes


Not domestic use then?

I think all the hype is built up by people with little or no understanding, same goes for welded diffs and banded wheels.

Paul

[Edited on 11/3/10 by Cousin Cleotis]

[Edited on 11/3/10 by Cousin Cleotis]

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boggle

posted on 11/3/10 at 07:29 PM Reply With Quote
why would you weld a diff????

and i use 1k lacquer acrylic on wheels.....

i didnt realise 2k lacquer was acrylic....





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iank

posted on 11/3/10 at 07:43 PM Reply With Quote
From http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=82762
quote:
Mark Allanson
I can paint with 2K paint no problem, I have access to 280,000 of booth, rotary compressor and a dozen pro guns to choose from. I have a spray suit and an air fed mask, gloves and special boots.

But I cannot paint with 2K as it is now considered too dangerous, and damaging to the environment, despite the equipment. I now use water bourne paint with a reduced cyanate clearcoat.

Don't use 2K even if you can get hold of it, your supplier will be breaching regulations selling it. Use polyester bases with a 1K clear, almost as good, and dead easy to use, and you will live to tell your grand kids that you built your own car.

Every christmas I visit the children of a dead paint sprayer who was a friend and collegue, they are of an age now to be embittered that we knew no different about the dangers of 2K although they were infants when he died at the age of 32, a sad situation.



and

quote:
Later in the same thread
You must wear an air fed mask running off a screw compresser not a piston one as these produce oil droplets which also stops your lungs working. You can absorb iso through your skin so a spray suit and gloves are necessary. The dried paint residue (overspray dust) is also lethal so that brings up another problem.



[Edited on 11/3/10 by iank]





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Stott

posted on 11/3/10 at 07:56 PM Reply With Quote
When I used to work as a Mech in Toyota the bodyshop was through a 10 foot corridor and 2 doors, accross the other side of the workshop from my ramp and largely cars were sprayed in the booth, sometimes odds and sods out though, but staying at my ramp, all day and not going in there, I could tell you what colour car he was painting by picking my nose and looking at lovely metallic, sometimes pearlescent, snobs.

Prob going to get ill later in life, hey ho, damage done now

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boggle

posted on 11/3/10 at 08:06 PM Reply With Quote
ive worked in a few body shops and as a mobile alloy wheel and smart repairer...

my first boss never wore a mask for baseing up and only for clear coating...he is still going strong....he is also a well known rally cross driver....

we painted lorrys in the shop that would stick out the oven, and we would often do all our priming(which is 2k) in the shop at the end of the day using just twin canister masks.....

i think a lot of it is over speculated, mixing and rubbing filler and fiberglass is just as bad...how many of us do that without masks????

if your unsure then leave it to a paint shop...i on the other hand will continue doing my own paintwork.....





just because you are a character, doesnt mean you have character....

for all your bespoke parts, ali welding, waterjet, laser, folding, turning, milling, composite work, spraying, anodising and cad drawing....

u2u me for details

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Cousin Cleotis

posted on 11/3/10 at 08:43 PM Reply With Quote
I made my own oil free air supply for my air fed mask, no need to spend 3k on a screw compressor. I bought a brand new 15 vacuum cleaner from argos, removed the motor/fan and built it into box made from MDF and fitted a car pollen filter to the inlet, helps with my hayfever when spraying in the summer. Its quite noisy but i just wear ear plugs.

My airfed mask is a sandblasting hood with an air flow indicator and a collar that tucks into my overalls blowing in fresh air.

For my "mixing room" i use a corner of my shed and a bathroom air extracter.

Paul

[Edited on 11/3/10 by Cousin Cleotis]

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dave-69isit

posted on 19/3/10 at 09:03 AM Reply With Quote
ot has any one used the aldi water based paints
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Sprytny

posted on 5/4/10 at 09:31 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cousin Cleotis
I made my own oil free air supply for my air fed mask, no need to spend 3k on a screw compressor. I bought a brand new 15 vacuum cleaner from argos, removed the motor/fan and built it into box made from MDF and fitted a car pollen filter to the inlet, helps with my hayfever when spraying in the summer. Its quite noisy but i just wear ear plugs.

My airfed mask is a sandblasting hood with an air flow indicator and a collar that tucks into my overalls blowing in fresh air.

For my "mixing room" i use a corner of my shed and a bathroom air extracter.

Paul

[Edited on 11/3/10 by Cousin Cleotis]


You don't have any pictures of your ingenius invention!

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