daniel mason
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| posted on 19/8/12 at 05:52 PM |
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any MG rover specialists?
am i right in thinking that all the k series rover engines excluding vvc are identical in size? and therefore parts are interchangeable between
different sizes?
if starter,alternator,flywheel,inlet and exhaust manifolds,engine mounts are the same. what else would be required to swap between engines? i assume
ecus are different for different engines? cheers
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femster87
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| posted on 19/8/12 at 06:06 PM |
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Planning a swap already dan?
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daniel mason
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| posted on 19/8/12 at 06:17 PM |
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just thinking out loud mate! could be a cheap upgrade on the cards.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 19/8/12 at 07:08 PM |
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The all post 1994 blocks are basically the same and normal 16 valve ( ie. no-vvc and non-VPDH) as are ll post 1994 16v head are more
or less the same but beyond that it gets more complex.
The biggest bugbear is the security system, the Rover Motorola MEMS engine ECU is locked to both the security system and the engines
flywheel reluctor tooth pattern MEMS exists in three different generations 1.9 2.x an 3.
MEMS 3 was a major step it has wasted spark coil pack ignition with a cam senor (although it will run happily without the cam sensor).
Sumps are different between models --- ie pressed steel or light alloy.
Depending engine size and car model different starters, clutches flywheels and gearboxes were used.
1.1, 1.4 and 1.6 saloon models used various specs of an awful Pugeot gearbox made under licence
All manual MGF and MG T F models and
45 1.8 also used the excellent PG1 gearbox.
Rover 75, MG ZT and Freelander used the very heavy Getrag gearbox.
Autobox situation is even more complex with CVT, ZT and JATCO boxes being employed.
The security system on MEMS 3 systems is much more difficult to by-pass than on earlier ECUs.
The Rover 75 & MG ZT has an addition difficulty in that the security ECU is the BMW EWS system.
Rover 75 and ZT (and Freelander ??) have the crankshaft position sensor in a different angular location from the other engines.
To replace a 1.4 with a 1.6 swap the flywheels and starter and keep the 1.4 ecu ---- this might work fine
To replace a 1.4 or 1.6 with a 1.8 try the same but you may have swap more bits depending on what the 1.8 came from.
Coil pack engines can be converted back to distributer ignition by swapping or modifying the inlet camshaft.
[Edited on 19/8/12 by britishtrident]
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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daniel mason
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| posted on 19/8/12 at 07:19 PM |
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was hoping youd have the time for a reply.and thanks for the detailed input!
i currently have a minister tuned 1400 k series which there is no real scope for further upgrades. about 130 - 135 bhp apparently.
ive been looking on dva website as they specialise in this and it seems that the 1.8 k is capable of well over 200bhp. but that 165 -175 can be had
easily with cams and a small amount of work. was just wondering basically what i would need to convert mine into either a roller barrelled 1.8 or a
1.8 vvc? if programmeable ecu's and such are needed then its a no go as it must be on budget but im sure that caterham use the 1.8
ecu's?
i know vvc's are slightly more complex and have different engine mounts but caterham sell vvc mounts so not end of world.
cheers BT.
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Thinking about it
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| posted on 19/8/12 at 08:55 PM |
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Any use?
http://www.zandf-tuning.co.uk/
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daniel mason
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| posted on 19/8/12 at 09:05 PM |
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thankyou
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rdodger
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| posted on 20/8/12 at 09:01 AM |
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I went into this in detail with Dave Andrews a while ago (2009)about a VVC I was running in my GTM LIbra. His advice was:
K06A kit £975 (HG, manifold gaskets and bolts included)
fit to engine on stand £375 (includes matching on inlet manifold and offset dowels)
remove and replace sump, oil rail, rods, liners and pistons and correct liner heghts(on stand) £210
Set of uprated TF160 big ends £42
Oil filter £6
Sump sealant £4
If you decide to have forged pistons...
Set of Omega forged pistons £510
Modify rods to accept pistons £109
Glaze bust liners £25
If the liners are not serviceable then a new set of Westwood liners is £160.
Then you can upgrade to Throttle bodies and Emerald ECU with or without the VVC. Piper do a Cam kit to remove the VVC mechs.
With the VVC removed with ECU and Throttle bodies, decent manifold/exhaust 215 bhp is about right. Oh and about 5k with a dry sump.
My mate runs a very similar setup in his Superlight and it is pretty awesome. It has proved very reliable for the past 6 years with a light refresh of
bearings and liners after about 10,000 mostly track miles.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 20/8/12 at 10:14 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
was hoping youd have the time for a reply.and thanks for the detailed input!
i currently have a minister tuned 1400 k series which there is no real scope for further upgrades. about 130 - 135 bhp apparently.
You could get quite a bit more than that out of a 1.4K series, but it will be expensive and probably wouldn't make a very nice engine for a road
car. Have you considered turbo or supercharging?
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swanny
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| posted on 20/8/12 at 12:33 PM |
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have heard good things about the guys at Z&F too. orginally rover employees i believe. not huge increases in power but driveability pretty
impressive. My Spyder is due down there at some point when i have some time.
paul
[Edited on 20/8/12 by swanny]
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britishtrident
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| posted on 20/8/12 at 01:19 PM |
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I am not really a fan of the 1.8 as sporty engine, purely because the 1.4 and 1.6 are much more free revving.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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mackei23b
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| posted on 20/8/12 at 02:14 PM |
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Hi Daniel
Strangely enough I too am on the Caterham K Series upgrade path…..
My base engine is a Minister 1600 (EU3) K series with forged pistons. I’ve picked up some the following bits for my engine so far:
- QED 375 cams (OK not the most exotic but a good start at the right price!!)
- VHPD Throttle Bodies
- Megasquirt built and tested, I’ve just made up a new loom and almost ready to start the engine
Later down the line it may be a VVC head and 425 cams……lots of info from Blatchat and look out for the posts from Oily (Dave Andrews)
Cheers
Ian
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INDY BIRD
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| posted on 20/8/12 at 02:59 PM |
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My vvc 1.8 engine makes over 185 bhp theres more to come with running and I had crap plugs in so hope to see around 200 from it with a ram air box,
Spec is
Std pistons and rods,
head is a vvc with larger valves and ported and paired with direct to head jenvey throttle bodies,
3-2-1 manifold as per reccommendation on these ,
Omen management system,
Dry sumped,
Updated heavy duty clutch,
Piper 285 cams with vvc conversion,
Nice to drive on road and nice power,
My brothers cater ham is bit more in spec with steel crank rods pistons upgrade to raise rev limit, to 8400, wilder cams and qed throttle bodies , mbe
management,
Makes ore 215 at 8000 and 230 t 8400' but this is expensive to do and wouldnt go there as more can be had for the money, but it's bloody
quick,
Good luck with the changes but for track if it's going there dry sump only I would say,
Cheers,
But perhaps cheapest option would buy a 2 nd hand mg 160 engine and management system,
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daniel mason
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| posted on 20/8/12 at 05:04 PM |
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im not wanting an expensive 200 bhp conversion as the car drives well as it is with the power it has. but the extra power and torque of the 1.8 must
be a good value if its an easy conversion?
i really think you should sell me your complete setup sean! that way you can upgrade to something even more rapid and i do too! 
[Edited on 20/8/12 by daniel mason]
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INDY BIRD
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| posted on 20/8/12 at 05:54 PM |
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Tempted as I am the engine is pretty good and plenty of go so saying put for now, next year maybe though,
Here is a link you prob seen it already though?
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/3802867.htm
Sean
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daniel mason
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| posted on 20/8/12 at 06:35 PM |
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cheers sean. i have seen that a while back. had the chance of an r300 engine last week but it sold just as i was sending an email to buy it.
i have also just seen an all alloy lightweight 17 zetec puma engine with throttle boddies and omex,with ally bell housing and shortened sump for a
reasonable outlay.
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