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Author: Subject: Trailer Advice
woodstock

posted on 6/3/14 at 09:58 PM Reply With Quote
Trailer Advice

Quick version: Has anyone got any experience of http://www.allytrailer.co.uk/ ?

Long version, below:

I've been borrowing a trailer to take my Fisher Fury to the track and I thought I was legal but have since found out I'm not so the time has come to purchase one.

The biggest problem I have is storage in that my single garage currently houses my Fury, tools etc and also my freezer and washing machine - yes it's tight. On top of this it also has a rear door to the garden and side door to my kitchen so is in fact a walk through for rear access too. I'm planning to store the car on the trailer in the garage.

This combined with the 2.16m wide garage door opening means i'm very restricted on trailer choice. I had hoped to get a small brian James with the folding tow bar but even BJ accecpt they really didn't sell that many so the chances of finding one and it fitting are very slim.

I know there are some talented people on here who have made very nice trailers but I'm not up to doing this (yet) and I also want the piece of mind that if anything happens on the road that i'm not going to have insurance issues. On top of this i'm towing with an Accord estate (1500KG tow limit) and on a 3500KG limited car license.

So far I have found two very different options and i'd really like your advice...

Options 1 - Brian James A4/C4
+ These are 2.08m wide so just fit through the door.
+ If I drag it in tow ball first I can just about walk past the A section to get between back door and kitchen door for rear access
+ Gross Train weight under 3.5T and can have a chassis plate issued limited the MAM to 1500KG making it legal for my car to tow (and insurance can't argue if the worst happens)
+ Braked and twin axle for security
+ ability to add extras such as tyre racks in the future if required
- only just fits and would block access to my freezer currently so I'd have to look at doing something there. To keep my wife happy this would probably mean buying a new integrated freezer for the kitchen and replacing a cupboard. (extra budget)
-Would be unable to get past the trailer to access the garage door.

Option 2 - http://www.allytrailer.co.uk/
+ Small
+ light
+ acts as a working platform for oil changes etc
+ stores without wheels and tow bar so takes very little extra room beyond the car on it's own.
+ would easily fit through my garage door.
+ Maintenance may be cheaper - small, lower spec (weight) tyres, no brakes to replace
+ Single axle in terms of pivot point for maneuverability but 4 tyres in case of punctures etc.
- unbraked - under 750KG so this is fully legal but is it really a good idea?
- Future value - I would expect that although the buy price is close to the Brian James it would be worth consider less if i ever come to sell it.
- Future spares availability may be a concern
- More expensive than Brian James

Basically. I love the idea of the allytrailer and want it to be great but it concerns me that it's not braked.

Would love your feedback, sorry for waffling

Thanks

Chris

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daniel mason

posted on 6/3/14 at 10:13 PM Reply With Quote
brian james micro max. 1 on ebay at moment. 1.76 wide bed should be spot on






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woodstock

posted on 6/3/14 at 10:28 PM Reply With Quote
Thanks!

I had looked at these and discounted them as being too wide but it's seems they might not be.

Cheers

Chris

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bi22le

posted on 6/3/14 at 10:34 PM Reply With Quote
The ali trailer looks smart but is steep (expensive).

It does have 4 wheels, look in the gallery and for pics of the underneath.

I made my oen trailer from a caravan chassis and store it at my brothers, in his garage on its side. He only has bikes so its not too bad.





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mark chandler

posted on 6/3/14 at 10:54 PM Reply With Quote
You want brakes on your trailer, it no fun being pushed down a wet road! Discounts the Ali one.
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Wadders

posted on 6/3/14 at 11:06 PM Reply With Quote
Quite an ingenious design that, but looks like a lot of faff and .

Single axle un braked trailers tow fine with a se7en on, and are much easier to manoeuvre on your own, you can push em about
Even with the car on. Given the choice a braked axle is always better though.

I don't like little wheels on trailers unless they are proper 10" low profile fatties, otherwise look for something with at least 12" wheels on.

Edited to add, I've always had a 3 tonne plus tow vehicle, a lighter vehicle might not cope so well with a non braked trailer, especially in the wet as Mark has pointed out.


[Edited on 6/3/14 by Wadders]

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daveb666

posted on 7/3/14 at 07:53 AM Reply With Quote
Paid 900 on eBay for mine

Description
Description


Fits through my standard door with 2cm spare either side.

It's a Woodford one. Tows beautifully.





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renetom

posted on 7/3/14 at 09:05 AM Reply With Quote
Trailer

Hi
we had one of these which was perfect for our Indy
Light, towed beautifully & fitted in the garage.

BJ Micromax trailer 3mX1.76 load bed dims
BJ Micromax trailer 3mX1.76 load bed dims


BJ Micromax trailer 3mX1.76 load bed dims
BJ Micromax trailer 3mX1.76 load bed dims


good luck

[Edited on 7/3/14 by renetom]

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puma931

posted on 7/3/14 at 04:22 PM Reply With Quote
This has been discussed before..... here is the solution I used.... turn the car into a trailer by bolting on the wheels



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woodstock

posted on 8/3/14 at 10:12 PM Reply With Quote
Thanks everyone for replying to this, sorry to go quiet one this.

I have managed to get a trailer - Brian James Micro Max with folding tow arm. This gives me a braked trailer that is legal, fits in my garage and with the fold up arm takes up not much more room than my car now.

If it hadn't have been the forum i would have discounted the Micro Max as i didn't think it fitted.

Thanks again

Chris

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johnny chimpo

posted on 8/3/14 at 10:21 PM Reply With Quote
Where did you get your Brian James from?

It sounds like exactly what I will be looking for!

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coozer

posted on 8/3/14 at 11:55 PM Reply With Quote
Just out of curiosity.. what was the legality bit about?





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woodstock

posted on 9/3/14 at 12:53 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Just out of curiosity.. what was the legality bit about?


As I understand it, the MAM figure on the trailer has to be lower than the Max towing weight of the car used to tow it. I have an Accord estate that can tow 1.5T so based on this the stated MAM, Gross weight on the chassis plate needs to be lower than this figure. The trailer I have been using doesn't have a chassis plate but the towing arm does and that was rated for 2T.

From what I understand this figure is the only one that matters and the actual wright of trailer plus load is irrelavent (as long as it's under). I've even read things where they say an empty trailer rated for higher than the car would still be in breach of the rules.

Whilst I think it would probably be ok, and I could get weighbridge proof that it's ok i'm not sure that would be enough. I've not read anything stating penalties for this so i'm not sure what would actually happen if you got pulled over. I do know though that insurance companies will look for any loophole and if the worst happened (car, trailer and trailed car written off) i'm sure they would be quick to dismiss my claim.

If you are in a similar situation let me know and i'll dig out the links that make me think this way

Cheers

Chris

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Wadders

posted on 9/3/14 at 09:40 AM Reply With Quote
You can legally down rate the trailers capacity, i.e if it's currently plated at 2000kg, get a new plate made with gross capacity of 1500kg stamped on.

plates are available on ebay. Brian James used to do this for me all the time, so nothing dodgy about it.

Manufactured Trailers are normally rated by their axles, so a 2000kg trailer will have two 1000kg axles and so on.

Most car transporter trailers are between 400 and 650kg, so even if you get weighed by vosa with a Se7en on you won't be over weight.

Obviously it would be silly to down plate a massive tri axle 3500 gross plant trailer to 1500kg.

Al.

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woodstock

posted on 10/3/14 at 08:22 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wadders
You can legally down rate the trailers capacity, i.e if it's currently plated at 2000kg, get a new plate made with gross capacity of 1500kg stamped on.

plates are available on ebay. Brian James used to do this for me all the time, so nothing dodgy about it.

Manufactured Trailers are normally rated by their axles, so a 2000kg trailer will have two 1000kg axles and so on.

Most car transporter trailers are between 400 and 650kg, so even if you get weighed by vosa with a Se7en on you won't be over weight.

Obviously it would be silly to down plate a massive tri axle 3500 gross plant trailer to 1500kg.

Al.


This would be an option if it was my trailer but as i'm borrowing it from someone that needs it for vehicle recovery so it can't be down rated with a replacement chassis plate. I have heard about people putting stickers over the chassis plate with new info but i couldn't find anything to suggest if this was actually ok or not.

Thanks

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PorkChop

posted on 10/3/14 at 09:55 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by woodstock

As I understand it, the MAM figure on the trailer has to be lower than the Max towing weight of the car used to tow it. I have an Accord estate that can tow 1.5T so based on this the stated MAM, Gross weight on the chassis plate needs to be lower than this figure. The trailer I have been using doesn't have a chassis plate but the towing arm does and that was rated for 2T.

From what I understand this figure is the only one that matters and the actual wright of trailer plus load is irrelavent (as long as it's under). I've even read things where they say an empty trailer rated for higher than the car would still be in breach of the rules.

Whilst I think it would probably be ok, and I could get weighbridge proof that it's ok i'm not sure that would be enough. I've not read anything stating penalties for this so i'm not sure what would actually happen if you got pulled over. I do know though that insurance companies will look for any loophole and if the worst happened (car, trailer and trailed car written off) i'm sure they would be quick to dismiss my claim.

If you are in a similar situation let me know and i'll dig out the links that make me think this way

Cheers

Chris


Yep, you're right, but you've missed out that the gross weight of the trailer and the tow car must be less than 3500kg. So your Accord must have a gross weight of 2000kg or less for you to tow a 1500kg gross trailer on your licence. I don't think that's the case, you would need to check. A Focus or Astra has a gross weight of 2000-2100kg.

Source - https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/car-trailer-practical-test

[Edited on 10/3/14 by PorkChop]

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woodstock

posted on 11/3/14 at 11:26 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PorkChop
quote:
Originally posted by woodstock

As I understand it, the MAM figure on the trailer has to be lower than the Max towing weight of the car used to tow it. I have an Accord estate that can tow 1.5T so based on this the stated MAM, Gross weight on the chassis plate needs to be lower than this figure. The trailer I have been using doesn't have a chassis plate but the towing arm does and that was rated for 2T.

From what I understand this figure is the only one that matters and the actual wright of trailer plus load is irrelavent (as long as it's under). I've even read things where they say an empty trailer rated for higher than the car would still be in breach of the rules.

Whilst I think it would probably be ok, and I could get weighbridge proof that it's ok i'm not sure that would be enough. I've not read anything stating penalties for this so i'm not sure what would actually happen if you got pulled over. I do know though that insurance companies will look for any loophole and if the worst happened (car, trailer and trailed car written off) i'm sure they would be quick to dismiss my claim.

If you are in a similar situation let me know and i'll dig out the links that make me think this way

Cheers

Chris


Yep, you're right, but you've missed out that the gross weight of the trailer and the tow car must be less than 3500kg. So your Accord must have a gross weight of 2000kg or less for you to tow a 1500kg gross trailer on your licence. I don't think that's the case, you would need to check. A Focus or Astra has a gross weight of 2000-2100kg.

Source - https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/car-trailer-practical-test

[Edited on 10/3/14 by PorkChop]



As if it wasn't complicated enough :-) Thanks. I'll double check this value. Parkers suggests the car weight is 1602 ( parkers ) but I'll check the chassis plate as there may be another number which might include maximum car loading. The trailer I am picking up later (that's the plan) has a gross weight of 1390 so my car needs to be 2110 or less which would be 500KG for loading (including car fluids?).

Still going to be close. It's probably worth me just doing that test and then that at least gets rid of the 3.5T limit and I can just worry about the car/trailer combo. Only need to do it once and then i've got it for life i guess.

Thanks

Chris

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woodstock

posted on 11/3/14 at 11:20 PM Reply With Quote
Thanks for all your replies. I've collected the trailer today and am happy that all the numbers now add up correctly.

It was a bit of a tight squeeze getting the car in but it is in and I can now think about doing something with the racks to free up that space - probably another shed that will double as a workshop area.

Trailer In Garage just
Trailer In Garage just


In terms of numbers, this is what I ended up with.

Car - Honda Accord Tourer 2.2 diesel (54 plate)
Max Weight: 2100 KG
Max Train Weight: 3600 KG
Max Towing Weight: 1500 KG
Axle 1 Max: 1090KG
Axle 2 Max: 1030KG
Max Nose weight: 75 KG (Rating from the car and towbar)
Curb Weight: Between 1575-1647 KG (no idea why there is a range, but thats what the book says)

Trailer - Older style Brian James Micro Max with Folding arm (Pivot immediately infront of the bed)
Max Gross Weight: 1390 KG
Load Capacity: 750 KG (I'm not sure if this is lower than standard because of it's age or the folding arm)
Estimated Trailer weight: 640 KG (Max Gross weight minus max load)

Trailered Car - Fisher Fury (Fireblade 919)
Weight: < 500KG

Me - on my 3.5T license
Max Gross Train: 3500 KG

So the resulting key figures:

Max Train Weight = 2100 KG (Car) + 1390 KG (trailer) = 3490 KG
- Under the max train of the car and my license, just

Trailer Weight (worst case) = 500 KG (Fury) + 640 KG (Estimated Trailer) = 1140 KG
- This is 72.4% of the lightest, unloaded car curb weight. Better than the 80% recommended car to trailer ratio.

If I've missed anything please let me know ( I may regret saying that )

Now to get on and get the car ready for Blyton park at the end on the month.

Thanks again

Chris

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Mr Whippy

posted on 11/3/14 at 11:38 PM Reply With Quote
Getting a full trailer license is a total doddle and costs about 150 with about 2-3 hrs training. About as basic as doing a CBT for a motorbike. Then that way you can tow far safer with a proper braked trailer rather than towing with marginal safety.
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woodstock

posted on 11/3/14 at 11:56 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Getting a full trailer license is a total doddle and costs about 150 with about 2-3 hrs training. About as basic as doing a CBT for a motorbike. Then that way you can tow far safer with a proper braked trailer rather than towing with marginal safety.


The trailer I have is braked so I don't feel I'm compromising on safety. I've only had a quick look but the folding arm uses a system similar to how cable brakes work on a pedal bike with a flexible outer covering a pulled brake cable inner. You can just see this in the picture running down the tow arm and round to the right (of the picture).

I did consider doing the test but it would only add 100KG unless I also changed my daily driver for something bigger which means more costs in both the purchase and running costs. Unless i'm missing something else?

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Mr Whippy

posted on 12/3/14 at 12:22 AM Reply With Quote
hmm just checking then


I have a caravan that's max allowable weight is 1285kg, the ford CMax gross weight is 1990kg and unladen it's 1317kg

total combined weight is 1285 + 1990 = 3275 kg so still under the 3500kg limit and the caravan is 32kg less than the unladen weight of the car.

does that mean my wife could drive it on her license which is post 1997?

[Edited on 12/3/14 by Mr Whippy]

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Mr Whippy

posted on 12/3/14 at 12:29 AM Reply With Quote
I found this chart online, would this be correct?


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woodstock

posted on 12/3/14 at 12:40 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
hmm just checking then


I have a caravan that's max allowable weight is 1285kg, the ford CMax gross weight is 1990kg and unladen it's 1317kg

total combined weight is 1285 + 1990 = 3275 kg so still under the 3500kg limit and the caravan is 32kg less than the unladen weight of the car.

does that mean my wife could drive it on her license which is post 1997?

[Edited on 12/3/14 by Mr Whippy]


I believe so. Although you would also want to consider the nose weight and the actual loading - for example you wouldn't want a fully loaded caravan and an empty car as that's 97%, recommended is 80% or lower from what I've read for stability.

This is the official statement of whats covered: https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car

And this is useful too: https://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_cons um_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_185825.pdf

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Mr Whippy

posted on 12/3/14 at 12:33 PM Reply With Quote
Good stuff thanks

I didn't think the missus could drive the caravan but that helps on long journeys

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