johnny chimpo
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| posted on 27/9/15 at 09:31 PM |
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Swirl Pot Query
Hi All,
Hopefully someone can help with a query regarding swirl pots and general fuel system setup for a kit I am rebuilding that's running a 5pw R1
engine.
I am at the early stages of a rebuild and I am seriously considering adding a turbo to the R1 lump for that little extra oomph. As a result, I want to
ensure my fuel system is up to the job should I go down this route or not.
Having had a bit of a google and from reading the forum, it would appear fitting a swirl pot, FPR and additional fuel pump (bosch 044??) to the
standard pump may be what I need require?
If I go down this route but keep the engine standard for the time being, will this cause any issues - or will it just be overkill for a standard
application?
Can anyone spoint me in the direction of a digram showing the correct way to plumb in a system with the additions above?
And last question... can anyone advise of what diameter fuel lines are required for a 2003 R1 engine?
Thanks for the help in advance guys.... my lack of knowledge is killing me here!
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blakep82
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| posted on 27/9/15 at 09:42 PM |
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I would (and am) going down the route of a swirl pot built into the tank, ie a 3" diameter by 1" deep cylinder welded to the bottom of the
tank, fed by gravity through a 1" hole. Self priming, only 1 pump needed, and once filled (at the petrol station) air won't get in.
Ok my car still isn't done, but come have a look at my tank next weekend for an idea if you like?
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johnny chimpo
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| posted on 27/9/15 at 10:13 PM |
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Cheers Blake, hope all is well and your build is progressing quicker than mine?
The standard tank has a small sump in it already, however it is on the passenger side of the tank and It was still causing fuel starvation the last
time on track at Kames.
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theprisioner
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| posted on 27/9/15 at 10:40 PM |
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I think I have been down the same road. My 1" swirl pot has proved the death of one fuel pump recently esp after fitting sticky tyres (888
SG's). My solution was to fit foam to the tank but make sure the foam is above the return pipe to the tank, appears to work well on roads
pulling the most G I can generate. I will be trying it at Kames this week but Knockhill is IMO a bigger test pulling all that G on the hairpin and
Clarks. If you want to see my solution look me up at Kames Thurs or Sun.
http://sylvabuild.blogspot.com/
http://austin7special.blogspot.co.uk/
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johnny chimpo
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| posted on 27/9/15 at 11:25 PM |
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Thanks for the suggestion. If the weather is okay I may pop along to Kames on Sunday for a look, it's only an hour away after all.
The additional reason for the upgrade is if idecide to go down the turbo route, I would rather have the fuel system in place and not use it to full
potential than not have it and need to change things around with additions at a later date.
I'm going for the "future proofing" route.... Hopefully.
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Oddified
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| posted on 28/9/15 at 08:44 AM |
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When i welded up a new tank for the kitten about a year ago, i looked into all the options and went for the internal swirl pot using the pumps return
line and a venturi effect to fill an internal 2L tank. Not the easiest thing to make up (internally like a snail back, 14-7deg venturi entry etc,
google is your friend ;-)). Basically the same design as many high performance road cars use and it works very well, never ever had fuel starvation
even when run basically empty.
Picture from when i was testing it with around 1" of fuel in the bottom before welding the top plate on;-
Just finishing off;-
Ian
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sdh2903
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| posted on 28/9/15 at 09:16 AM |
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Had this conversation with Chris and Marc recently as I was looking at the fuel system setup and they agreed that a swirl pot setup was the way to go.
I was discussing a potential mx5 turbo install but same principle.
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johnny chimpo
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| posted on 29/9/15 at 10:17 PM |
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Thanks guys, looks like a swirl pot of some description may be the best way to go then.
Anybody got a layout diagram for how it should be plumbed?
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rdodger
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| posted on 30/9/15 at 07:40 AM |
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I had this done to the tank on my Libra. It was a copy of an internal swirl pot on a production car.
The fuel pump sits in the middle of the pot. The return goes to the bottom of the pot where the returning fuel draws fresh fuel into the pot. Outlet
from the pump to the short sub.
[img]
[Edited on 30/9/15 by rdodger]
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johnny chimpo
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| posted on 4/10/15 at 08:15 PM |
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thanks for the help so far guys! :-)
Next question... is there any advice on the volume of swirl pot that I run? I was thinking a 1.5 litre tank would suffice, or is that too big/ or too
small?
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Angel Acevedo
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| posted on 5/10/15 at 03:05 AM |
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You need to have a swirl pot as big as you longest time at full power with high G´s.
this may be calculated with your Full power Specific Fuel consumptiontimes thetime it takes you to turn the hardest corner on the hardest circuit you
run.
HTH.
AA
1.5 lt is a LOT!! I think...
Unless you have a 1000 HP engine...
Beware of what you wish.. for it may come true....
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lsdweb
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| posted on 5/10/15 at 08:56 AM |
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Johnny
Here's the setup (several years ago) on my 2003 R1 engined single seater. It was all a bit cramped behind the seat but worked faultlessly. The
two lines going through the white cable glands on the left were the feed and return for the fuel rail.
 
Swift Fuel
Regards
Wyn
[Edited on 5/10/15 by lsdweb]
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garyo
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| posted on 5/10/15 at 10:57 AM |
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I retrofitted a sump to the existing tank by fitting a long thin swirl pot horizontally underneath the tank, gravity fed from the main tank. No second
pump required. You just need to make sure it's sensible for you with regard to ground clearance etc.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 15/10/15 at 11:18 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Oddified
Picture from when i was testing it with around 1" of fuel in the bottom before welding the top plate on;-
How does the fuel in the tank get into the swirl pot? I can see how the returned fuel goes in, but it has to get in there in the first place.
EDIT: Ahh, is there a hole at the point where the return pipe goes in?
[Edited on 15/10/15 by MikeRJ]
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Oddified
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| posted on 15/10/15 at 11:30 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by Oddified
Picture from when i was testing it with around 1" of fuel in the bottom before welding the top plate on;-
How does the fuel in the tank get into the swirl pot? I can see how the returned fuel goes in, but it has to get in there in the first place.
EDIT: Ahh, is there a hole at the point where the return pipe goes in?
[Edited on 15/10/15 by MikeRJ]
Yes, the return pipe is central inside the venturi so the return fuel drags fuel in with it from the rest of the tank filling the swirl pot. Simple
and works well.
Ian
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