It has been discussed before about mid to top end punch lacking on a se7en. For example i will be hard pushed to keep up with a Leon cupra R on a rolling 60mph to 110mph sprint.

On track I would expect to smoke it.

So, take my car with bhp/ton of 280ish and 185 sticky tyres and put me against a 280ish bhp/ton hot hatch with 225 sticky tyres. How will they compare?

I think i can out brake and corner faster than the tin top due to mass. Ut faster corners and straights?

On track i often wonder that i push my £7k car to its limit and therefore keep up with far more modern and powerful cars. Are they just not trying as hard?!?

Anyone owned both?

Scroll down to page 21 for a good summary. Same track,(Anglesey national double lap) same conditions/ day
And this is a fairly power hungry track. Terry everall is mighty quick though in a 7. But look at the times.the 3 of us up top are all in single seaters, then the radicals
http://www.tsl-timing.com/file/?f=sprint/2016/161781.pdf

We were absolutely miles ahead of even the very fastest Porsches etc. See 61 and 611 in a gt3 rs

[Edited on 15/5/16 by daniel mason]

The megablade must be 400bhp/ton and 215 stickies.

A good way of comparing though. I guess the weight just does make the difference.

Single seaters dont count, you can't have them on track days! !

The other 7's were also ahead of almost anything other than race cars and radicals

i provide recovery at race meetings and have watched lots of racing over the years, for me in the dry a bec will beat most things, in the damp the big hp 4wd cars take over due to cornering. a well sorted duratec 7 etc will mix it up all day long.

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Originally posted by daniel mason
Scroll down to page 21 for a good summary. Same track,(Anglesey national double lap) same conditions/ day
And this is a fairly power hungry track. Terry everall is mighty quick though in a 7. But look at the times.the 3 of us up top are all in single seaters, then the radicals
http://www.tsl-timing.com/file/?f=sprint/2016/161781.pdf

We were absolutely miles ahead of even the very fastest Porsches etc. See 61 and 611 in a gt3 rs

[Edited on 15/5/16 by daniel mason]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Slimy38

quote:

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Originally posted by daniel mason
Scroll down to page 21 for a good summary. Same track,(Anglesey national double lap) same conditions/ day
And this is a fairly power hungry track. Terry everall is mighty quick though in a 7. But look at the times.the 3 of us up top are all in single seaters, then the radicals
http://www.tsl-timing.com/file/?f=sprint/2016/161781.pdf

We were absolutely miles ahead of even the very fastest Porsches etc. See 61 and 611 in a gt3 rs

[Edited on 15/5/16 by daniel mason]

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Number 8 looked odd, a Reliant Kitten buried in all sorts of better kit (at least on the face of it). Then a quick search reveals a Honda S2000 engine!! How much do kittens weigh, about 500 kilos?

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Weight is everything when it comes to circuit speed. I've had a good few tin top track cars and none of them came close to any seven.

When we used to take The Life Taker on track days it was like when you see LMP1 car passing GT's at Lemans, we would be overtaking people while doing a cool down lap in 6th at the end of a run.

One of the moments that convinced me to build a car was when a mate bought his dad's road going Westfield to a track day, even in full soft summer touring spec it was still massively quicker than our stripped out track car.

IIRC a Leon Cupra R is 225bhp - quite a lot for a hot hatch Again IIRC it used the same VAG motor as an Audi S3 although didn't have the same pseudo 4WD transmission.

I had a Leon TDI 150bhp for a while, it was no slouch, but economical on long journeys with a little right foot restraint.

[Edited on 16/5/16 by nick205]

The kitten is highly developed by Andrew jackson. And is rapid
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hXYbLt2S6dg

And the jedi. Skip to 10 minutes for me to actually start!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wQGNd4FIVLg

Reading with interest, what are peoples thoughts on things like Supercharged Lotus Exige's performance compared to the sevens and heavier tin tops as they fall between the very light sevens and heavy tin tops ?

A lot of it is driver dependant and the thing with a 7 is you need to be a very very good pilot to get the best from them.therefore hardly any (if any at all) can drive them anywhere near there potential.
I've known many people think they are extremely fast on track,who have entered sprints and been 5+ seconds behind others in similar cars in just 1 lap.
I can only imagine the circuit racers are another step up again so in reality the limiting factor is generally the driver and setup of the car!
Now all I need is to learn how to drive the jedi properly!

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Originally posted by daniel mason
A lot of it is driver dependant and the thing with a 7 is you need to be a very very good pilot to get the best from them.therefore hardly any (if any at all) can drive them anywhere near there potential.
I've known many people think they are extremely fast on track,who have entered sprints and been 5+ seconds behind others in similar cars in just 1 lap.
I can only imagine the circuit racers are another step up again so in reality the limiting factor is generally the driver and setup of the car!
Now all I need is to learn how to drive the jedi properly!

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Originally posted by hizzi
i provide recovery at race meetings and have watched lots of racing over the years, for me in the dry a bec will beat most things, in the damp the big hp 4wd cars take over due to cornering. a well sorted duratec 7 etc will mix it up all day long.

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All interesting points.

Regarding lotis exige, I shared about 4 laps with one at bedford. I caught him and then stuck with him until he went onto the pits. I would say he was trying reasonably hard but nowhere near the limit of the car.

The fastest tin tops I can remember were a couple of endurance E36 M3s at brands. They were on slicks and pushing very hard. They must of been lapping high 40s.

On track days its very much driver dependent and if your not racing or timing then its just a case of do you enjoy driving it I guess. When I drove my mates 182 it was a right blast. Painful having to wait with the FWD traction so maybe a RWD tin top would be fun.

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Originally posted by bi22le
When I drove my mates 182 it was a right blast. Painful having to wait with the FWD traction so maybe a RWD tin top would be fun.

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Biz, your obviously a young-ish lad. I'd get the basic safety gear. And enter a javelin sprint somewhere like Blyton where you can push hard!
I tested at one early season,traveled over the day before and stayed on site with loads of the other lads (there was at least 3 other kits from Kent)
It was really well run.loads of runs and great guys/girls competing. The competition was obviously nothing like a British/msa event but it was really enjoyable. It'll give you a good idea of where you are when the clock is ticking!

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Originally posted by loggyboy

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Originally posted by bi22le
When I drove my mates 182 it was a right blast. Painful having to wait with the FWD traction so maybe a RWD tin top would be fun.

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Big power, crap tyres or wet? Ive rarely had issues on mine unless it was either of the last two those.

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Originally posted by daniel mason
Biz, your obviously a young-ish lad. I'd get the basic safety gear. And enter a javelin sprint somewhere like Blyton where you can push hard!
I tested at one early season,traveled over the day before and stayed on site with loads of the other lads (there was at least 3 other kits from Kent)
It was really well run.loads of runs and great guys/girls competing. The competition was obviously nothing like a British/msa event but it was really enjoyable. It'll give you a good idea of where you are when the clock is ticking!

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Have a look at the recent Llandow sprint results - dry in the afternoon for the timed runs. I was car 86 in my road rally spec Clio. Have a look at Adam's times (car 70) - an extremely well driven Westfield.

Tyres make a huge difference - the recent changes to MSA regs on 1B tyres I think have widened the gap between the road going and mod prod cars.

Wyn

[Edited on 17/5/16 by lsdweb]

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Originally posted by lsdweb
Have a look at the recent Llandow sprint results - dry in the afternoon for the timed runs. I was car 86 in my road rally spec Clio. Have a look at Adam's times (car 70) - an extremely well driven Westfield.

Tyres make a huge difference - the recent changes to MSA regs on 1B tyres I think have widened the gap between the road going and mod prod cars.

Wyn

[Edited on 17/5/16 by lsdweb]

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Originally posted by loggyboy

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Originally posted by lsdweb
Have a look at the recent Llandow sprint results - dry in the afternoon for the timed runs. I was car 86 in my road rally spec Clio. Have a look at Adam's times (car 70) - an extremely well driven Westfield.

Tyres make a huge difference - the recent changes to MSA regs on 1B tyres I think have widened the gap between the road going and mod prod cars.

Wyn

[Edited on 17/5/16 by lsdweb]

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But also on that same example, the top production car (new shape Mini) was only 9secs off the pace of the megabusa.
And the road going kit winner(a BEC) wase only 3 secs quicker than the same Mini.

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Ian parr seems to have got to grips with Bradley hobdays Jedi rather quickly!

Well it's a seven V tin tops, but I suspect there's a lot of plasic too.

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Originally posted by Andy D
Well it's a seven V tin tops, but I suspect there's a lot of plasic too.

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Wow. What a vid!

When I got my little car log booked this year the Scrutineer said why do you not try time attack? I replied at £2000 a year I could not afford it, however he said you can do 4 rounds for much less than that. It's a one tyre make, perreli I think who rock up and flog you rubber at a really cheap rate then it's a couple of hundred for up to 2 hours lap time, bit like a sessioned day but against the clock, worth a thought.

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Originally posted by mark chandler
When I got my little car log booked this year the Scrutineer said why do you not try time attack? I replied at £2000 a year I could not afford it, however he said you can do 4 rounds for much less than that. It's a one tyre make, perreli I think who rock up and flog you rubber at a really cheap rate then it's a couple of hundred for up to 2 hours lap time, bit like a sessioned day but against the clock, worth a thought.

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If you must go tin top, just make sure it has a K20 engine.

Pal at Croft a couple of days ago. Honda CRX K20 conversion

Well the car that is actually making my head think at the moment is an opportunity to buy an Escort RS Cosworth.

- Shelled out caged 909 motorsport chassis
- modest tarmac setup
- 320ish bhp

I've only done a sessioned track day on Oulton in my kit,but it really impressed me.
The feel on track and the speed you can carry through corners was so much better than any of my tin tops I've ever taken on track.
Only two cars I couldn't keep up with were a Gt3 911 and a new Audi TT RS.

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Originally posted by Andy D
Well it's a seven V tin tops, but I suspect there's a lot of plasic too.

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Originally posted by bi22le
Well the car that is actually making my head think at the moment is an opportunity to buy an Escort RS Cosworth.

- Shelled out caged 909 motorsport chassis
- modest tarmac setup
- 320ish bhp

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quote:

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Originally posted by Andy D

quote:

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Originally posted by bi22le
Well the car that is actually making my head think at the moment is an opportunity to buy an Escort RS Cosworth.

- Shelled out caged 909 motorsport chassis
- modest tarmac setup
- 320ish bhp

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Money pit?

The reason I mentioned the K20 Honda, was reliability. That CRX above has a totally standard engine, with bigger cams dropped in, a bigger throttle body and 3" exhaust.. nigh on 260 bhp.

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