westend90
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| posted on 10/4/16 at 12:43 PM |
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DMF failing and dodgy MOT
I recently moved to the UK (Scotland) and purchased a car, and am now having some problems and would be greatly appreciative if the members on here
could give me some advice on what they would do if in my situation.
I purchased a 2008 Vectra diesel 1.9 Sri on 21/03/2016. When I viewed it the previous Friday it seemed ok apart from a rattle on at low revs. The
dealer said it was as the car hadn’t been driven in over a week and when it heats up it will be ok. He said he would MOT the car and fix up the bits
and pieces and have it ready the Monday. I asked him to do the timing belt and water pump as well and after a bit of negotiating he agreed if I would
pay the asking price (separate MOT centre would be carrying out the work). I arrived just before closing on Monday due to work and picked it up.
However when I got home and checked through the documents there was no record of timing belt and water pump being done. I drove it to England the
following morning for work and it was fine on the motorway, however driving in towns, at traffic lights etc there was a juddering at low revs and when
engaging the clutch. I phoned the dealer to let him know about the missing documents and also informed him about the juddering which he said would be
the clutch release bearing. Eventually the timing belt documents were posted out to me but I was still concerned about the noise.
I took the car to my local garage last week (6th April) to get the once over and put my mind at ease. Here is the list of items:
-three tyres cracked and worn below legal limit
-tracking out
-front bulb gone and number plate bulb gone
-Anti rollbar bushing gone in back
- DMF and clutch need to be replaced.
My worst fears were confirmed about the DMF and the clutch! I phoned the dealer immediately and his tone changed considerably. He said he would do his
best to fit me in and have a look, however they would not be changing the DMF if it was noisy and not failed, and they don’t care what the other
garages report says. He said they were busy in the next two weeks but he would give me a call back to see if he could fit me in. Needless to say no
call, so I rang him again the next day and it went straight to voicemail I used my work phone to ring straight after and surprise surprise I got
through. He began to make excuses as to why they couldn’t see the car next week as it was “Easter week and they were really busy”. My one month
warranty will expire the week after along with my 30 day sale of goods act rejection period.
My thoughts are that I will write him a letter stating that he has to make good all the faults the other garage found or I will have to begin the
process of reporting him to trading standards and rejecting the car under the sale of goods act, and I am considering reporting that MOT centre too. I
have recorded all telephone conversations so far using an app for my phone so I have a record of exactly what was said and when,
Sorry for the length of post and any advice is greatly appreciated as I don’t really know much about cars (enough to get by) and anything above is
what I’ve learnt from researching forums the last few days.
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Neville Jones
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| posted on 10/4/16 at 12:55 PM |
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Contact your local Trading Standards office regarding the dealer, if he doesn't put the car right or take it back with a full refund.
Contact VOSA regarding the dodgy MOT, and they'll check the issuing centre.
You write excellent english, so make very sure that you put ALL of your complaints in writing to the dealer, and ake sure you send them in a Recorded
Delivery letter.
Cheers,
Nev.
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westend90
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| posted on 10/4/16 at 12:59 PM |
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Hi Nev,
Thanks for the reply. Given the way they have handled things thus far, would you think I would be better off just rejecting it as the work they might
carry out may not be up to standard?
Regards,
Colm
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 10/4/16 at 01:31 PM |
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you never know what else will fall off in the future,demand your money back and contact trading standards and the ministry,take the car to a ministry
testing station before you take it back so they can see the dodgyness.
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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Dick
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| posted on 10/4/16 at 02:12 PM |
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From someone in the car sales trade
Write a letter (recorded) to him listing the faults and inform him you will all so be contacting vosa re the mot, Tell him you will not be driving the
car as it is unsafe and not in roadworthy condition and you are rejecting it for this reason . The 30 days warranty is a load of old crap , the law
on warranties is a reasonable amount of time taking into consideration the age the millage and the price. The rejection period can be increased by
the courts.
Do not allow him to repair as once he starts to repair the car your writes to rejection are gone. You need to contact vosa about the mot and stick to
your guns as they can say well you changed the wheels over ect are any of the points you said noted on the mot.
Also remember that under law you can not sign away your legal writes so if you have a bit of paper with you agreeing to only 30 days its worthless.
You need to stand by your guns dont be fob off contact trading standards and push hard , this sort of bad practice needs to be sorted out.
If he plays up small claims court is the way to go you may have to wait for your cash but your get it in the end remember you cant drive the car as
its unsafe so lock it up and keep it safe and insured.
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westend90
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| posted on 10/4/16 at 02:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Dick
From someone in the car sales trade
Write a letter (recorded) to him listing the faults and inform him you will all so be contacting vosa re the mot, Tell him you will not be driving the
car as it is unsafe and not in roadworthy condition and you are rejecting it for this reason . The 30 days warranty is a load of old crap , the law
on warranties is a reasonable amount of time taking into consideration the age the millage and the price. The rejection period can be increased by
the courts.
Do not allow him to repair as once he starts to repair the car your writes to rejection are gone. You need to contact vosa about the mot and stick to
your guns as they can say well you changed the wheels over ect are any of the points you said noted on the mot.
Also remember that under law you can not sign away your legal writes so if you have a bit of paper with you agreeing to only 30 days its worthless.
You need to stand by your guns dont be fob off contact trading standards and push hard , this sort of bad practice needs to be sorted out.
If he plays up small claims court is the way to go you may have to wait for your cash but your get it in the end remember you cant drive the car as
its unsafe so lock it up and keep it safe and insured.
Hello. Many thanks for taking the time to reply to me, I really appreciate it.
I am currently drafting a letter to him which I will be sending out via registered post tomorrow. I will not be driving the car anymore and will keep
it locked up and insured until a resolution is reached. Is it now the DVSA I must contact as VOSA seem to be defunct? I paid by Visa debit is
chargeback the way to go? He has said he will look at the car (but not given me a date until at least the week after this) should I just not give him
the opportunity to repair the car so? The MOT certificate does not even have any advisory notices on it which is unbelieveable really. The same MOT
station "did the timing belt and water pump" and didn't even write it in the service book. Should I just contact trading standards
tomorrow so and not even bother with trying to get him to repair? Aside from the problems I like the car its a shame to have gone this way.
Regards,
Colm
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Dick
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| posted on 10/4/16 at 03:23 PM |
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Your never be happy with the car now if they cant do an honest and legal mot what sort of work have they done in replacing the cambelt, ask yourself
would you put your family in it and drive to the south of france , so contact trading standards and start the ball rolling. Inform him of your actions
but as i said dont let him take the car for repair or your stuck with it. A small point all so is if he takes the car he can take as ling as he wants
to repair it so your left without transport
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westend90
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| posted on 10/4/16 at 03:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Dick
Your never be happy with the car now if they cant do an honest and legal mot what sort of work have they done in replacing the cambelt, ask yourself
would you put your family in it and drive to the south of france , so contact trading standards and start the ball rolling. Inform him of your actions
but as i said dont let him take the car for repair or your stuck with it. A small point all so is if he takes the car he can take as ling as he wants
to repair it so your left without transport
Yes and its extremly frustrating as I need the car for both work and weekends. If he refuses to refund me the money, am I looking at small claims
court to reclaim it? or what are the channels. I paid with visa debit..
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britishtrident
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| posted on 10/4/16 at 04:53 PM |
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Kwikfit MOT ?
It struck me the failure list is typical Kwikfit!
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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westend90
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| posted on 10/4/16 at 05:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
Kwikfit MOT ?
It struck me the failure list is typical Kwikfit!
No not a Quikfit. Do you think I have a strong case?
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Dopdog
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| posted on 10/4/16 at 06:15 PM |
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I was in a similar situation. Once I told the dealer I was going to the trading standards he got all angry with me and realised what was going on sent
a low loader to pick the car up and the driver with my cash.
Don't get pushed about and easy conversation for you. Just give me my money back and come and collect the car.
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westend90
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| posted on 10/4/16 at 06:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Dopdog
I was in a similar situation. Once I told the dealer I was going to the trading standards he got all angry with me and realised what was going on sent
a low loader to pick the car up and the driver with my cash.
Don't get pushed about and easy conversation for you. Just give me my money back and come and collect the car.
Hi and thanks for the reply. Was it DMF related? Just wondering as have asked this question on another forum and they seem to think DMF is a normal
wear and tear issue..
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motorcycle_mayhem
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| posted on 10/4/16 at 08:11 PM |
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Clearly, as most have stated, it's a 'take the car back and refund me - now!' type approach to take. I, however, have absolutely no
idea of the legalities.
I'm posting something useful(?) though, perhaps. The last 'warranty' I saw in print from a Stealer (though I have never purchased a
car from one), specifically excluded 'friction parts'. Worries me that a 'friction part' is indeed a DMF?
Caveat emptor..., but your car is clearly 'unfit for purpose'.
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nick205
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| posted on 11/4/16 at 08:33 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Neville Jones
Contact your local Trading Standards office regarding the dealer, if he doesn't put the car right or take it back with a full refund.
Contact VOSA regarding the dodgy MOT, and they'll check the issuing centre.
You write excellent english, so make very sure that you put ALL of your complaints in writing to the dealer, and ake sure you send them in a Recorded
Delivery letter.
Cheers,
Nev.
As suggested, put everything in writing to the dealer and send recorded delivery keeping proof of posting and a copy of your letters. Putting things
in written form is a valuable part of any case and gives you something to stand on should it get out of hand!
As also suggested, I'd be asking for a return and full refund of all monies paid. It sounds as though the dealer was taking his chances selling
the car and should not be allowed to get away with it.
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westend90
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| posted on 11/4/16 at 12:10 PM |
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All, thanks for the replies.
I have contacted trading standards this morning and am awaiting a response. I think that this evening I will request a retest of the MOT from the DVSA
(it's free anyway).
In regard to the rest of it, the only gripe I have is the DMF and if he would pay for that I would be happy to pay for the clutch that would be fitted
as part of the process. I am doubting myself as to the best course of action to take. If he continues to ignore my request to see the car, then I
could in theory get it fixed and then keep the parts along with the evidence photos/report when they actually took out the DMF to show that it had
failed and go down the route of reclaiming the cost in the small claims court. However then I would be opening myself up to the fact that as another
dealer had opened up the car that any claim I had against the seller would be voided.
If I go the sale of goods act route then I really can't drive the car until the matter is resolved, but I can barely afford to do without it
this week let alone the next 6 months for work reasons and I can't afford another car having just bought one..
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westend90
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| posted on 11/4/16 at 12:12 PM |
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And one other thing which may slightly strengthen my case is I found a cached copy of the ad for my car which stated in the ad description that the
tyres were in "excellent condition"
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 11/4/16 at 01:12 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by motorcycle_mayhem
Caveat emptor..., but your car is clearly 'unfit for purpose'.
That is a very specific term in law and almost certainly does not apply in this situation. If the OP wanted a small, economic car to nip to the
shops occasionally and was sold a 7 Series BMW with a big V8 engine, then that would not be fit for purpose.
The OP's car may not of 'satisfactory quality' (though this term takes into account wear and tear), and may not be 'as
described'.
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westend90
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| posted on 11/4/16 at 01:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by motorcycle_mayhem
Caveat emptor..., but your car is clearly 'unfit for purpose'.
That is a very specific term in law and almost certainly does not apply in this situation. If the OP wanted a small, economic car to nip to the
shops occasionally and was sold a 7 Series BMW with a big V8 engine, then that would not be fit for purpose.
The OP's car may not of 'satisfactory quality' (though this term takes into account wear and tear), and may not be 'as
described'.
I think you're right re:the fit for purpose argument. I think that the satisfactory quality route is definitely the one to take. I have read
some other threads and forums where people have had success pursuing the failing DMF under the SOGA so that at least gives me some encouragement.
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BenB
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| posted on 11/4/16 at 04:52 PM |
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So many MOT centres are biased- either in the direction of creating unecessary work (Kwikfit) or in the direction of passing dodgy cars for mates. I
use the later for my kitcars (though I wouldn't if I was selling). They're pragmatic- my last MOT I had a leaking brake union. They asked
me if I knew the consequences of running out of brake fluid. I did. We nipped it up FT and I pressed on the brake pedal enough to make the lights come
on and they passed it on the principle that I'd have a proper look when I got back.
One good trick is taking the car to a council MOT station (the type they use for buses etc). Totally independent (no benefit to them if they fail or
pass you) and by-the-rules. I did that once when a local garage "did some work" on my car I wasn't happy with. The council garage
failed the work. I think the council link pulled some weight- perhaps connected with the fact that without the local council on your side it's
difficult to run a garage. Who knows- seems to work on that occasion.
Anyway. Good luck with it all. Not using the car at all is a good idea. Proves it's unusable and (in the event of an eventual claim) increases
the amount they'll pay out. I suspect most dealers will twig this quite rapidly and just pony up the reddies.
For me the warning signs are when they said they don't care what any other garage says.... Any???? I can understand if they refused to accept a
Kwikfit MOT but any at all???
The basic fact is you picked up on an issue, they said it would get better once the car was run a bit. It hasn't. Therefore what they claimed
when you entered the contract is incorrect. Not sure it'd hold up in contract law but enough grounds to take it back under common law.
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froggy
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| posted on 11/4/16 at 10:15 PM |
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What does the mot say regarding advisories ???? All the tyres could be right on the 1.6mm limit and still pass and as you've driven the car for
some time you have no chance of proving they were a failure at the time of test . The anti roll bar bush unless it's missing could be an
advisory item too . Vosa are unlikely to be interested as its done some miles since the test and you will have to pay for the car to be inspected by
Vosa who will refund your fee if you are successful ,
[IMG]http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r187/froggy_0[IMG]
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nick205
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| posted on 12/4/16 at 09:19 AM |
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The ARB bushes are wear and tear items IMHO and (usually) not expensive or hard to replace. Most cars have failing or failed rubber bushes and would
benefit from new OEM parts.
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westend90
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| posted on 12/4/16 at 06:24 PM |
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(Update) The seller has agreed to take the car in and look at it on Monday coming. Will see what happens. I have informed trading standards regardless
of what happens so I have some ground to stand on if he won't do anything - DMF should be covered both under his one month warranty or the sale
of goods act. I have offered to pay price of clutch if he will repair the DMF as the garage who looked at the car said there was nothing wrong with
that as far as they could tell but it should be replaced alongside the DMF.
Thanks for all the replies
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sdh2903
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| posted on 12/4/16 at 07:02 PM |
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I'm sorry but with your description of the faults I wouldn't have let them anywhere near it and demanded a refund. I couldn't trust
any work done as being done to an acceptable standard. Wish you all the best with it though.
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mark chandler
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| posted on 12/4/16 at 09:16 PM |
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Once they weild the spanners on your behalf you have had it for a refund, afterwards the car may just feel like a big disappointment I would look
elsewhere myself.
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froggy
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| posted on 13/4/16 at 07:00 AM |
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Your not going to like my advice but I run a garage and deal with car dealers every day . If the car starts and drives you won't have any joy
getting a refund as the car is fit for purpose and you've bought a cheap diesel car getting towards the age where lots of things wear out . What
I think is going to happen as the dealer will have 5-600 quid profit in this car and will know all about dmf issues if he sells old diesels is get the
gearbox off and then phone you saying he will replace the clutch if you cover the cost of the flywheel as it will fail pretty quickly if it has a new
clutch fitted to a tired dmf .
Your cheapest option to get the car fixed is buy the dmf before you give him the car put it in the boot and when he phones you your ready . You have
to give him the opportunity to put it right first and going down any legal route will take several months to resolve . Most dealers I know will punt
these old smokers down the road as they have too much potential to lose money .
Simplest way to assess a dmf is to open the drivers door and watch for any shaking .
[IMG]http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r187/froggy_0[IMG]
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