Printable Version | Subscribe | Add to Favourites
New Topic New Poll New Reply
Author: Subject: Zetec supercharging experts - I'm thinking about it
Philwaters7

posted on 18/11/13 at 01:02 PM Reply With Quote
Zetec supercharging experts - I'm thinking about it

Hi,

I'm in the middle of re-building my Zetec with some new shiny bits (Arrow steel rods, Accralite pistons, bigger valve head and higher lift cams). The engine is a Silvertop as I did my x/flow conversion before the Blacktop was widely available. I had also got it to around 200hp (piper 285's, TB's and rod bolts) by the time the Blacktop was reasonable in cost to swap to - so I'd have had to have started again.
So I stuck with it and as a result I am still running hydraulic followers, but the cams are about as high as they can be, a bit more than a 285 (which is what I am replacing). The internals will see a rev limit of around 8k, but I am not sure where the cams will run out of puff, so will just adjust accordingly. The estimate is around the 225 - 230bhp area in NA form.

All good fun and should be a nice engine. However.... I stumbled upon this thread about Jeff's supercharged Blacktop and it has rekindled the desire I've had for a long time to supercharge my engine. So, I've started looking around and thinking about things and whilst the 'kits' won't fit as the pulley arrangement is different, I am fairly sure the SC will fit and I even have some tapped holes in the block right in the area it would go!

The main problem, however, is space - I have a distinct lack of it as this is in a Caterham. My radiator is right in the nose of the car and can't be moved backwards due to chassis & ARB being in the way. I think I can get the SC oil cooler in front of the rad, at the top - as the rad is angled backwards slightly. However, there is no way I can get an intercooler in front of it and I don't have any other air inlet. So, how about a water cooled intercooler? This seems to be the answer, I just have space behind my main radiator to get a 16"x 8"x 3" radiator in and then the WAIC could go in a couple of places, probably in front of the drivers footwell, right behind the plenum and SC, keeping pipe runs short.

So, I'm thinking things could be possible, but seem to have hit a wall in terms of finding out the next stage answers. So, can anyone help me with the following questions:

1/ How do you size a water cooled intercooler and it's radiator - so I can see if it will fit. What does the plumbing look like - is there a reservoir of water or is the rad + IC volume all there is - wouldn't this heat up gradually, especially in traffic?
2/ Does the IC radiator need a fan, especially if it is behind the main rad - not sure I have space for one!
3/ My final CR will be around 10.4 I think - I know there is a lot of chat about high CR SC'd engines - how do you work out what your ideal boost would be?
4/ I would be looking at about 300hp at the crank, I think much more would be too much, so how would I limit this - just gear down the SC once I know my peak RPM?
5/ The Nissan GTR plenum looks interesting, anyone have any dimensions, or know where I can get one to play with? THe Ebay ones are expensive, and I'm not sure which specific one it is with the separate backplate. Can I face it with the inlet facing to the rear?
6/ Current intake are DCOE style jenvey TB's, 40mm - would these need to be bigger? I was thinking of going to 45 or 48's, and if I SC could I run the shallower ones to pull the plenum further inside the bonnet? Is the induction length as important with SC'ing?
7/ What is needed in terms of ECU - I am running an Emerald at the moment. I presume an inlet pressure sensor to go with the inlet temp... anything else?
8/ How do you size the SC oil cooler? Does it have an oil reserve tank?
9/ Do you size your injectors in the normal way, but with the SC based factor (0.57?)... ?
10/ Can it be mapped for normal unleaded (just out of interest really)...
11/ Where is best to source parts (IC, etc)

Sorry - loads of questions, I'm just trying to see what I've missed as I'm sure there is something (actually, probably loads!!)

Dangerous to day dream isn't it!!

Cheers,

Phil





Phil Waters

View User's Profile E-Mail User Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member
snapper

posted on 18/11/13 at 01:30 PM Reply With Quote
It's generally considered better to fit low duration high lift cams
You know about the issues of charging an already high compression engine and charge cooling is paramount to reduce det
I would do a lot more research before just slapping on a charger to a high reving high compression engine
You may need to consider water injection and possibly a bespoke rad/charge cooler





I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
beaver34

posted on 18/11/13 at 01:56 PM Reply With Quote
tb size is that important as when n/a, i run 40mm dth jeveys on my turbo setup with the jevey plenum, works really well although mine pokes out of the bonnet a little
View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
jeffw

posted on 18/11/13 at 03:42 PM Reply With Quote
1/ How do you size a water cooled intercooler and it's radiator - so I can see if it will fit. What does the plumbing look like - is there a reservoir of water or is the rad + IC volume all there is - wouldn't this heat up gradually, especially in traffic?

Try and look on frozenboost.com and it will give you an idea of Chargecooler specs and size. You can also look at http://www.chargecooler.co.uk/. Remember that any intercooler or chargercooler rad will need to be in front of any water rad, otherwise you end you with 90 deg C inlet temps.


2/ Does the IC radiator need a fan, especially if it is behind the main rad - not sure I have space for one!

Relies on airflow....not sure how effective they would be on long runs on boost, a road car should be fine as you have time for the water in the rad to cool.


3/ My final CR will be around 10.4 I think - I know there is a lot of chat about high CR SC'd engines - how do you work out what your ideal boost would be?

Mine is about 10.5:1 and is fine with the Omex/TTS Rotrex kit

4/ I would be looking at about 300hp at the crank, I think much more would be too much, so how would I limit this - just gear down the SC once I know my peak RPM?

You can change the pulley size to limit the Rotrex's revs although 300 crank HP is about as much as you'll get anyway.

5/ The Nissan GTR plenum looks interesting, anyone have any dimensions, or know where I can get one to play with? THe Ebay ones are expensive, and I'm not sure which specific one it is with the separate backplate. Can I face it with the inlet facing to the rear?

Flak Monkey did my backing plate for the GTiR plenum which uses Jenveys, I suggest you speak to him.

6/ Current intake are DCOE style jenvey TB's, 40mm - would these need to be bigger? I was thinking of going to 45 or 48's, and if I SC could I run the shallower ones to pull the plenum further inside the bonnet? Is the induction length as important with SC'ing?

I'd be surprised if 40mm is enough, I use 45mm. My inlet trumpets are 19mm in the Nissan GTiR plenum, trumpet length is not as important in forced induction terms.


7/ What is needed in terms of ECU - I am running an Emerald at the moment. I presume an inlet pressure sensor to go with the inlet temp... anything else?

I use an Omex, no reason not to use an Emerald except my kit came from Omex.

8/ How do you size the SC oil cooler? Does it have an oil reserve tank?

The Rotrex comes with the rad and reserve tank, it uses very expensive oil as well.

9/ Do you size your injectors in the normal way, but with the SC based factor (0.57?)... ?

You'll need 660cc or bigger injectors.


10/ Can it be mapped for normal unleaded (just out of interest really)...

yes...mine has used both.

11/ Where is best to source parts (IC, etc)

Various places, you need to decided who is supplying the kit to start with.






View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
djtom

posted on 19/11/13 at 02:29 PM Reply With Quote
I have a GTIR plenum going spare if you are interested - was going to use it on my zetec turbo install but ended up going another route. Drop me a U2U if you are interested.
View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Philwaters7

posted on 29/11/13 at 08:31 AM Reply With Quote
Hi,

Thanks for all the replies, sorry for no responding earlier - been busy in the garage finishing the engine build

Lots of info to digest, so that's great and plenty to think about - which is the interesting bit for me. I do think that I will struggle with the cooling though, I simply have no space for another rad of any description, so a split one might be the way to go if I go ahead with the project.

Thanks again all

Phil





Phil Waters

View User's Profile E-Mail User Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member
jeffw

posted on 29/11/13 at 10:55 AM Reply With Quote
I can't see how a split one will work with a charge cooler, you will end up with 90 deg C water in both parts of the rad and therefore 90 deg C inlet temp.






View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member

New Topic New Poll New Reply


go to top






Website design and SEO by Studio Montage

All content © 2001-16 LocostBuilders. Reproduction prohibited
Opinions expressed in public posts are those of the author and do not necessarily represent
the views of other users or any member of the LocostBuilders team.
Running XMB 1.8 Partagium [© 2002 XMB Group] on Apache under CentOS Linux
Founded, built and operated by ChrisW.