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Author: Subject: Electric cars - so what do we think?
nib1980

posted on 20/7/09 at 10:51 AM Reply With Quote
Electric cars - so what do we think?

Hi All,

based on the press today, what do we all think about electric cars?

(yes I am biased)


Whats gonna happen to donors in the future?

Many thanks

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jack_t

posted on 20/7/09 at 11:22 AM Reply With Quote
well we wont be using current hybrid cars like the toyota prius as donors as i was told by a toyota service manager that it is illegal for a non trained mechanic to touch the hybrid drive batteries in hybrid cars
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MautoK

posted on 20/7/09 at 11:31 AM Reply With Quote
Battery technology still has a way to go. Specific energy (J/kg and J/m^3) must get higher.
A lot of people seem to forget that the energy still has to come from somewhere.
There will have to be standardisation of battery packs and supporting infrastructure so that 'filling up' is a simple matter of swapping one's pack for a charged one as well as being able to trickle charge at home.

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tegwin

posted on 20/7/09 at 11:31 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jack_t
well we wont be using current hybrid cars like the toyota prius as donors as i was told by a toyota service manager that it is illegal for a non trained mechanic to touch the hybrid drive batteries in hybrid cars


How can it be illegal?..... Possibly against their "rules"... but illegal? I dont see why... when you can legally buy the batteries elsewhere with similar design etc.

I am waiting for there to be a nice selection of hydrogeon fuel cells to choose from in the local scrappy... that should be fun!





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Mr Whippy

posted on 20/7/09 at 11:34 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jack_t
well we wont be using current hybrid cars like the toyota prius as donors as i was told by a toyota service manager that it is illegal for a non trained mechanic to touch the hybrid drive batteries in hybrid cars


don't see why that would be, folk have been building their own full electric or hybrid cars for years plus I'm on the electric car forums and never come across such rules. As far as I'm aware you can do what you like.

Tbh the press are about the last people I'd base anything on

[Edited on 20/7/09 by Mr Whippy]





Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet

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speedyxjs

posted on 20/7/09 at 11:48 AM Reply With Quote
Electric cars are pointless at the moment they are overpriced and the range and charging times are crap. I think the tesla has a range of 150 odd miles according to top gear and nedded about 20 hour to recharge.

If electric cars do take off, we can say goodbye to the V8 rumble and all the other engine noises we love so much





How long can i resist the temptation to drop a V8 in?

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Mr Whippy

posted on 20/7/09 at 11:53 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by speedyxjs
If electric cars do take off, we can say goodbye to the V8 rumble and all the other engine noises we love so much


ahh but we'll just play that through the stereo, very loudly





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David Jenkins

posted on 20/7/09 at 11:56 AM Reply With Quote
An electric car would be perfect for 98% of my Monday - Friday driving. I travel about 6 miles morning and evening, along country roads where 50mph is a sensible max speed.

It's only on the weekends, occasional evenings and holidays where I travel longer distances.

I could probably use one of those French/Indian compressed air cars for my day-to-day journeys!






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kendo

posted on 20/7/09 at 12:00 PM Reply With Quote
I really struggle with the whole Hybrid Prius on the grounds of their claimed ecological benefits.

The energy consumed in their construction is immense, particullarly where the batteries are concerned, and yet you can get a VW Polo that will deliver the same sort of MPG and therefore CO2 output without shipping tonnes of nickel around the globe burning countless tonnes of oil in the process.

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Mr Whippy

posted on 20/7/09 at 12:21 PM Reply With Quote
Just buy any old cheap 125 bike for commuting to and from work and you'll get over 100mpg

Mine runs on loose change, plus it’s got a CAT. It's cheaper to buy a new 125 motor bike than just a replacement set of batteries for an electric car. The government should be building special motor bike only lanes, especially since they need be no more substantially built than a pedestrian foot path.



[Edited on 20/7/09 by Mr Whippy]





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smart51

posted on 20/7/09 at 12:25 PM Reply With Quote
Electric drive is by far the best way to propel a vehicle. Current battery technologies are just not good enough and power generation systems are still years off. As soon as there is a good way to fuel an electric car, internal combustion will die. No question. It is only a matter of when. As others have said, limited range with several hour recharge is not that practical. As soon as these problems are overcome, electric will dominate.






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coozer

posted on 20/7/09 at 12:28 PM Reply With Quote
Well, I'm in 2 minds. while I like the idea of a pure electric car I also would like to see more efficient diesels produced.

I think there is a future for hybrids but with something like KERS used. Current 125 GP bikes have a very simple KERS thing on them that gives assist when the throttle is opened.

I have a 100cc scooter that would be great with a 15hp electric motor for commuting.

I suppose the attraction is in the power source, electric being cheaper than petrol/derv and you can always make your own.

I'm a fan, the offput is the cost atm.





1972 V8 Jago

1980 Z750

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David Jenkins

posted on 20/7/09 at 12:28 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Just buy any old cheap 125 bike for commuting to and from work and you'll get over 100mpg



Great idea - but I'd rather get on the train in normal (dry) clothes, without having to deal with protective gear, helmet, etc.

Also, the way they drive in Suffolk, I'd prefer to arrive at my destination with all my limbs intact.






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clbarclay

posted on 20/7/09 at 12:42 PM Reply With Quote
Hybrid cars might be the future, but I expect that looking back on the current hybrid cars will be like looking back on the early petroleum gas cars which had a large balloon full of gas on the roof. At best the current hybrid cars are just a technological stepping stone.

Despite current technology advances, batteries still leave a lot to be desired as a form of energy storage considering energy efficiency, density and end of life disposal.

It’s a pity that internal combustion engines are not as efficient as electric motors.


Electric cas are no more enviromentally firendly as the power stations that produce the elictricity, and then take into account the storage losses. Again at best all the current vehicles are just stepping stones, but promeses of a clean consience can sell almost anything to some people.

[Edited on 20/7/09 by clbarclay]






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alistairolsen

posted on 20/7/09 at 12:49 PM Reply With Quote
I still reckon the hydrogen economy is the answer as its almost as efficient, and lighter than batteries.

Electric motors are infinately better than IC.

Batteries are heavy and have a time limit on charging. As said before, for commuting, fine, but I like doing 400 miles down th motorway, stopping for 5 mins and doing another 400 and you wont change peoples minds so standardisation of battery packs, or using hydrogen is the only way to go.

If the vehicles cost the same, electric is cheaper than HC for the same distance, but the disproportionate cost of the vehicles offsets this unfortunately.

Also, its a crock of poo till we find a way of generating electricity cleanly, be that for batteries or electrolysis

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Mr Whippy

posted on 20/7/09 at 12:59 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Just buy any old cheap 125 bike for commuting to and from work and you'll get over 100mpg



Great idea - but I'd rather get on the train in normal (dry) clothes, without having to deal with protective gear, helmet, etc.

Also, the way they drive in Suffolk, I'd prefer to arrive at my destination with all my limbs intact.



That’s fine if you have a train to take, there is none near my work.

For me, its either a 1 ½ hour car journey - £50 per week, 2 hr bus journey (two busses) - £60 per week or a 25 minute bike ride - £6 per week





Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet

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clbarclay

posted on 20/7/09 at 01:08 PM Reply With Quote
The simplest solution is not travel any distance more than you can walk/cycle, but some how I can't see the "developed" world doing that.

It is a nice feeling though walking out the door, straight in the farm and looking out across a field at the precesion of people commuting. Having spent last year commuting 45mins each way, I'm in no rush to go back to it.






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MK9R

posted on 20/7/09 at 01:45 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by alistairolsen
I still reckon the hydrogen economy is the answer as its almost as efficient, and lighter than batteries.



Agreed, onboard electricity generation is the way forward





Cheers Austen

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coozer

posted on 20/7/09 at 01:48 PM Reply With Quote
Is it not so simple as having one electric motor at the back and a generator on each front wheel?

A battery pack that is charged while driving and topped up at night extending range to 200 miles say?





1972 V8 Jago

1980 Z750

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alistairolsen

posted on 20/7/09 at 02:07 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Is it not so simple as having one electric motor at the back and a generator on each front wheel?

A battery pack that is charged while driving and topped up at night extending range to 200 miles say?


are you suggesting generating electrcity from the fronts to power the rears?

welcome to perpetual motion

Regenerative braking like kers is ok, but only a range extender. Most small leccy cars are sub 100 mile range anyway and the biggest isue isnt how far you can go before charging, but the hours they take to charge.

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Confused but excited.

posted on 20/7/09 at 02:35 PM Reply With Quote
Well personally speaking, I have always loved dogems.





Tell them about the bent treacle edges!

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britishtrident

posted on 20/7/09 at 03:54 PM Reply With Quote
Toyota scored a major own goal with the current Prius in that they never designed in a home overnight top-up charger, next version apparently has it and also much improved batteries.

Like it or loathe it the Prius works and is very reliable I know of one with 110,000 miles on the clock--- I can't see the same thing being true of the automated stop the engine then start the engine carry on ever time you stop at the traffic lights might work when everything is brand new but 5 years down the line . VW tried it before and it didn't work.

Honda at the moment are trailing Toyota i the hybrid market but claim they are set to leap frog them with the next generation.

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spaximus

posted on 20/7/09 at 05:24 PM Reply With Quote
The real reason that electric cars are now seen as the future is that all the oil is in unstable countries. Fighting wars over it will never secure enough for the worlds need, whereas electric can be generated by Nuclear energy easily to fill the gap over wind etc. We will be driving hybrids of one sort or another and for none enthusiasts will be fine. In fact better it will be quiet, less polluting on the street and clean. Electric trolley busses are the norm abroad and much better than the diesel versions we use, we used to have them here before they were phased out in the 60's.
Thiw will be like when steam was replaced by diesel and petrol, the diehards will still have them as toys and antiques the rest will move on to the new ways.
I will be sad to see cars become what they will but that is progress

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Simon

posted on 21/7/09 at 12:15 AM Reply With Quote
Jay Leno hit the nail on the head when he said that (might have reworded it slightly ) 99.9% of the population couldn't give a toss what is under the bonnet so long as it "starts and stops". What that means for the .1% who do give a toss is that the fuel lasts longer and will be cheaper as a few co's try and flog it off.

One thing that does interest me is what Gordon (I've spent all your tax money for the next million years) Brown is going to do when he needs a couple of quid to fill a pot hole and hasn't got a pot to pee in cos everyone doesn't pay road tax. Or fuel duty.

Oh yeah, he won't be in power, will be in the Lords and won't give a shite.

ATB

Simon






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:{THC}:YosamiteSam

posted on 21/7/09 at 02:30 AM Reply With Quote
i think what no one has mentioned here is that car manufcturers (at least in this country) HAVE to make near zero emission cars in the future - thats is law now.. hence the government giving hand outs to them to do so soon.. think nissan got 30 million to invest from the government few months back..

me persoanlly i reckon the only way batteries will work is if they were smaller.. lighter.. and the were charged by the motion of driving and braking combined.. ie why not have an extra wheel run along the ground or multiple dynamos on each wheel as well as energy recovery systems on all moving parts






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