alainmengoli@hotmail.com
|
| posted on 23/6/04 at 01:07 PM |
|
|
de dion
Well I never considered this optoin and after reading the other topic I am convinced. Just want to understand it properly. Correct me if I am wrong.
The de dion tube is suspended by four linkage arms connected to the middle of the chassis( actually behing seat) hence good power transfer and less
hop!? Plu sit sort of acts as a roll bar ?
Problem is how to connect the de-dion tube to the rear hubs??? I am not building a 7 type and I was going to use X1/9 rear hubs which are basically
front hubs. So question is how do I fabricate something to attache the de-dion, calipers, and linkages to the hub. I am sticking with FIat std as I
already spent £*** on wheels to suite. I can't think of any other rear wheel drive fiats?!
|
|
|
|
|
JoelP
|
| posted on 23/6/04 at 01:11 PM |
|
|
as far as i know, dedion uses a 5 point setup exactly the same as a live axle, the only difference being the diff is not part of it, and hence the
dedion tube is bent behind the diff.
Beware! Bourettes is binfectious.
|
|
|
timf
|
| posted on 23/6/04 at 01:21 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by alainmengoli@hotmail.com
I can't think of any other rear wheel drive fiats?!
131,124
|
|
|
Tblue
|
| posted on 23/6/04 at 04:07 PM |
|
|
You could try adapting a Dedion rear end off an Alfa as these have the hubs already sorted for you, and your wheels will still fit. I've got one
in the garage that I've gas axed the forward facing arms off, I'll get a photo at some point and put it in my archive so you can see what
they are like. They come with a Watts linkage already attached, but you'll have to sort the brakes, as the Alfa's are inboard.
Photo now uploaded.
[Edited on 23/6/04 by Tblue]
|
|
|
Mark Allanson
|
| posted on 23/6/04 at 04:34 PM |
|
|
I sold the last of a long line of X19's to start my locost. The rear wheel bearings are a MAJOR hastle on an exxie, make sure yours are OK
before committing your self.
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
|
|
|
alainmengoli@hotmail.com
|
| posted on 23/6/04 at 04:34 PM |
|
|
sounds good please sen me some pics or email me
|
|
|
Mark Allanson
|
| posted on 23/6/04 at 06:12 PM |
|
|
I am guessing your boxer already has inboard brakes, my old ti certainly did.
I have a drawing of the Guilietta rear end
 
Rescued attachment int_susr.jpg
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
|
|
|
Mark Allanson
|
| posted on 23/6/04 at 06:14 PM |
|
|
..and one showing its placement
 
Rescued attachment trans.jpg
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
|
|
|
sgraber
|
| posted on 14/7/04 at 02:13 AM |
|
|
Ignore the fact that my car is a middy and just note that I am using mcphereson strut style hubs coupled to a 3" 16ga deDion tube. The hubs have
been rotated 90 degrees...
I believe that the X1/9 hubs are similar to mine?
With access to a mill, the big ears should be cut off the hubs and holes tapped to allow the hub to bolt directly to the deDion endplate. Could save
several kilos that way.
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
|
|
|
PeterGT4
|
| posted on 14/7/04 at 03:38 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by sgraber
Ignore the fact that my car is a middy and just note that I am using mcphereson strut style hubs coupled to a 3" 16ga deDion tube. The hubs have
been rotated 90 degrees...
I believe that the X1/9 hubs are similar to mine?
With access to a mill, the big ears should be cut off the hubs and holes tapped to allow the hub to bolt directly to the deDion endplate. Could save
several kilos that way.
Thanks for posting that, I've never thought of using FWD knuckles as the De Dion ears. Clever. Any problems with flex with that set-up (not
really with fore-aft, but up down)? Would rear, parking-brake calipers fit easily to it? It looks like there's a structure welded to the tube to
pick up the lower ball joint of the knuckle and the locating links as well?
|
|
|
sgraber
|
| posted on 14/7/04 at 04:27 AM |
|
|
Thanks,
It could be more clever. I still haven't solved the parking brake issue. Although it's simply a matter of locating a bracket in the proper
position... Too lazy to figure it out I s'pose.
The entire assembly is pretty stout. Although I see that a triangle brace could be added to make it even better.
Here is a shot of the assy on the car. and it should be noted that the caliper must be unbolted to bleed the brakes. Not the best there either. Like
I said before, the idea is sound, my particular solution is so-so. I have some better ideas to solve it. I am sure that once you see this you can come
up with a better solution too.
You can check out this July 2003 archive page of mine for more info. Shows the deDion while under development.
http://www.newtier.com/graber/mid-engine/Rear_Drive_Cradle/index.html
Also don't miss the image gallery at my website. 
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
|
|
|
alainmengoli@hotmail.com
|
| posted on 14/7/04 at 07:35 AM |
|
|
Thos epics are great. I like the way you cut the uprights to fit them in which is my main problem. I am using fiat x1/9 rear uprights and their a
nightmare to have the bearing changed. No one seems to know aht to do with them as if the bearings were pressed in but there is evedence of a large
inverted bolt but no nut? . I am actually thinking of casting some one offs and it is actually very cheap. I was qouted £15 per hub using high
quality steel that can be machined. hence with the new bearings and machinning I reckon a pair will cost only £90 not bad for one offs. Might be
interested to if it is worth designing a pattern for the locost?????? hmmmm...
|
|
|
craig1410
|
| posted on 14/7/04 at 11:47 AM |
|
|
Alain,
You may have already come across this from other threads but my website has some information on the de-dion axle at
this webpage.
Please feel free to email me if you want any more information or guidance.
Cheers,
Craig.
|
|
|
sgraber
|
| posted on 14/7/04 at 02:57 PM |
|
|
Craig, that is a great website! I wish I had had that available before I built mine.
One thing you could go into greater detail on is how to align the hub carrier plates via a jig/fixture.
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
|
|
|
ned
|
| posted on 14/7/04 at 02:59 PM |
|
|
Craig,
That's all straight off the locost cdrom! is it copyrighted? My copy says copyright David Dunn 2002 
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
|
|
|
craig1410
|
| posted on 14/7/04 at 04:35 PM |
|
|
Ned,
I don't have the Locost CD-ROM but some guy sent the drawings etc to me a while back. If you see my website you will see the disclaimer at the
top of the page which reads:
quote:
Note from webmaster: The following information was obtained from a third party who I would be happy to acknowledge if I could remember who it
was. I believe the design is originally from MK Engineering but I understand that they no longer manufacture this item so I hope they don't mind
me publishing the design here. Please let me know if this is a problem and I will remove the material immediately.
I though this was fair?
Anyway, thanks for the comments Steve.
Craig.
|
|
|
alainmengoli@hotmail.com
|
| posted on 14/7/04 at 04:53 PM |
|
|
was thinking of making a hub similar to that of the sierra but using the x1/9 bearings. But I still havent figured how the hell you take them out?Any
help welcom.
|
|
|
Mark Allanson
|
| posted on 14/7/04 at 06:19 PM |
|
|
general rule of thumb, you throw away the old hub carrier and buy a new one. The rear wheel bearings really were the exxie's achillies heel
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
|
|
|
alainmengoli@hotmail.com
|
| posted on 14/7/04 at 08:45 PM |
|
|
Do any of you think I can use Ford bearing with my Fiat parts? Or maybe machine it to fit?
|
|
|
Mark Allanson
|
| posted on 14/7/04 at 09:12 PM |
|
|
It's not the bearings themselves which are the problem, its when they finally give up the ghost, you have to replace the hub carrier as well. A
few years ago there was an engineering company that did an exchange scheme for the carriers. A look on the X19 owners club site might be useful
http://www.x1-9ownersclub.org.uk/
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
|
|
|
alainmengoli@hotmail.com
|
| posted on 14/7/04 at 10:03 PM |
|
|
what about using the ford parts and redrilling the holes t osuit fiat stud patter?
|
|
|
Mark Allanson
|
| posted on 14/7/04 at 10:11 PM |
|
|
why not use uprights from a different fiat/lancia/alfa? It's onlu the exxie that has the problem, I know that the uno uses 8.9" discs at the
front. I even have a 1976 fiat 128 which needs a reincarnation!
 
Rescued attachment 128.jpg
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
|
|
|
Mark Allanson
|
| posted on 14/7/04 at 10:13 PM |
|
|
and these two until recently
 
Rescued attachment DCP_0169.JPG
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
|
|
|
Steve Hnz
|
| posted on 14/7/04 at 10:18 PM |
|
|
Might be difficult, most redrillings are done at 45` to the original holes but the sierra back hubs have a hole in this position each side for
accessing the hub mounting bolts . I think the remaining area left at say 20` would be marginal for strength. Anyone else?
|
|
|
PeterGT4
|
| posted on 16/7/04 at 04:34 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by sgraber
...and it should be noted that the caliper must be unbolted to bleed the brakes.
Maybe instead of unbolting the caliper for bleeding, just have remote bleeders on the ends of hoses connected to the old bleeder threads (mounted
higher and away from the caliper). The same idea as co-axial clutch release bearings/slave cylinders...
|
|
|
