paulf
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| posted on 20/1/12 at 12:09 PM |
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2 Sisters food group.
Does anyone else on here work for or have any dealings with this group? .I used to work fora Northern foods company until it was bought out by the 2
Sisters group and it now seems to be rapidly going down hill and I am told most other company's in the group are poorly ran,final salary
pensions were the first thing to go and now it seems terms and conditions are changing for the worse.
For those that don't know 2 sisters is a major supplier to nearly all of the supermarkets supplying chicken and chicken products and now ready
meals, chilled salad and pizza , biscuits,Christmas puddings etc. after the take over of Northern foods I feel it could become to large for the
public benefit a bit like the growth of Tesco .
Paul
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Garage Clearout
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| posted on 20/1/12 at 12:40 PM |
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I know several workers at several sites and the general feeling is the same as yours.
I currently work as a contractor on one site, and since the takeover getting invoices paid is becoming increasingly difficult, if things don't
change we will withdraw our services and equipment shortly (exactly as many other suppliers have done so)
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TimC
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| posted on 20/1/12 at 12:58 PM |
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Unfortunately much of the industry, particularly those dealing with 'own-label' Supermarket products is struggling.
I know folk at Premier who would say exactly the same. Some other large groups are doing better, but there is a worrying amount of short-termism
abound from what I've heard.
Obviously these are generalisations, but from my perspective problem-sites seem to fall into two categories: a.) Carrying too much debt. b) Lower
debt but in need of investment. Of course management can make all the difference, but it is not easy to turn these things around.
What does this tell you about the cost of goods and the apportionment of profit in the supply chain? If you need a clue, I think your comparison with
Tesco is wholly false - you're comparing a few apples with many orchards.
EDIT for better English.
[Edited on 20/1/12 by TimC]
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Garage Clearout
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| posted on 20/1/12 at 01:21 PM |
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I don't think 2 Sisters are struggling at all, their turnover for 2011 was 2.1 billion, and due to investements they are snapping up smaller
companies and increasing their market share of most food types.
They aim to be turning over 3 billion a year, in the next few years, They're not small fry at all, their head office is tiny and it's just
their way of working, keep cost's down and maximise profits.
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TimC
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| posted on 20/1/12 at 02:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Garage Clearout
I don't think 2 Sisters are struggling at all, their turnover for 2011 was 2.1 billion, and due to investements they are snapping up smaller
companies and increasing their market share of most food types.
They aim to be turning over 3 billion a year, in the next few years, They're not small fry at all, their head office is tiny and it's just
their way of working, keep cost's down and maximise profits.
Undoubtedly true, but my point about investment was aimed at site-level - potentially your type of work from what you have said - rather than at the
corporate level.
They aren't small-fry but they aren't doing £60+bn p.a. either! Also, while they are growing in turn-over, their last published accounts
showed a decline in profitability.
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paulf
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| posted on 20/1/12 at 02:46 PM |
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No there not struggling there is money coming in from somewhere and they are also cost cutting to grow to a 3 billion turn over company in a couple of
years.It just seems to me that they seem to think that the way to grow is by reducing costs by whatever means there are, even to the detriment of
company's and standard of product which seems to be more for the benefit of supermarkets rather than customers ultimately.
Originally Northern were going to amalgamate with Green core another similar company and it was aimed at producing a bigger group that wasn't so
easily manipulated by the supermarkets and seemed to be a popular decision until 2 Sisters came along at the very last moment with there MD Ranjit
Boporan buying a majority of the shares and spoiling the deal.
Since then we have only had limited and very unprofessional communications from 2 sisters and investment has stopped our pensions have been frozen
etc..
Paul
quote:
Originally posted by Garage Clearout
I don't think 2 Sisters are struggling at all, their turnover for 2011 was 2.1 billion, and due to investements they are snapping up smaller
companies and increasing their market share of most food types.
They aim to be turning over 3 billion a year, in the next few years, They're not small fry at all, their head office is tiny and it's just
their way of working, keep cost's down and maximise profits.
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 20/1/12 at 04:10 PM |
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Don't confuse turnover with profit. My last year of taxi-ing I had a turnover of £18k.. but with expenses of £13k I had a profit of £5k (I
didn't pay tax for 2 years I was earning that little)
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Proby
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| posted on 20/1/12 at 04:29 PM |
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A mate of mine got a position as maintenance/engineering manager at a 2 sisters site last year. He lasted 2 months, due to the budget provided, and
expecting him to keep the factory on top of maintenance with it. I can't put on here what he thinks of them, I'll get done for slander!
[Edited on 20/1/12 by Proby]
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paulf
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| posted on 20/1/12 at 11:22 PM |
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I am in the engineering department and that sounds very familiar, we always used to be up against it but now the shoe string budget has been reduced
to a fine thread.
Paul
quote:
Originally posted by Proby
A mate of mine got a position as maintenance/engineering manager at a 2 sisters site last year. He lasted 2 months, due to the budget provided, and
expecting him to keep the factory on top of maintenance with it. I can't put on here what he thinks of them, I'll get done for slander!
[Edited on 20/1/12 by Proby]
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engsup
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| posted on 2/3/12 at 10:44 PM |
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hi all
I've joined this site specifically to contribute to this thread ( much as I would love to build one of your sporty little creations  )
all of the criticisms here seem typical of 2sfg modus operandi
paulf and I appear to hold similar positions ( hell, my username isn't that subtle  ) and he's spot on !
as is Garageclearout....most contractors and suppliers operate a 30 day payment policy whereas 2sfg operate a 90 day policy and as the 90 day
approaches they will nitpick the invoice and ask for it to be resubmitted. I know of one contractor ( a one-man-band ) who was owed over £80K and
went under as the result of this policy.
regarding Proby's comment, upon acquisition of our company the engineering budget and manpower was abitrarilly cut by 50%. I'm not
saying that there wasn't room for streamlining but the key word there is arbitrarilly !
2sfg implemented a recruitment policy a few years ago that all new starters contractually worked Saturdays at flat rate.
the 2sfg website lists its values, the first of which states "one team, where everyone counts "
2sfg has recently adopted an ethical policy
SO, getting right back to the original post and Pauls observations on terms and conditions, here are the latest proposals from the ethical
company that values the team where everyone counts....:
I'm changing you from weekly to 4 weekly paid ( you just struggle through that 1st month )
all overtime and weekend working will be worked at a standard rate of time +1/4 ( bye double bubble
 )
bank holidays ?? ....naw, I'll pay you single time/ flat rate
for those of you that have managed to stay awake until the end of my rant, I thank you. I wont be clogging up your forum any more, but I DO intend to
make all of this as publicly visible as I can
PS, I have a ZZR1100 in the garage, would that be a good power plant for a lowcost ?
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D Beddows
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| posted on 3/3/12 at 12:47 AM |
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Isn't it the same in most industries at the moment though? Construction for example, I work for a small company (5 of us and a group of semi
permanent subbies) and thankfully we're actually very busy but to be able to win jobs we're working on profit margins of only about 4% and
we have to avoid any work from the big contractors because they quite often don't seem to be interested in actually paying anyone further down
the food chain. It's cr*p (5 or so years ago 15% profit was rubbish) and it's not making any of us rich but it's a job........
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batteredoldsupersport
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| posted on 3/3/12 at 10:08 PM |
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I sympatise, I've been in food for years and contracts are hardening year on year to the point where you may as well be a temp. So guess what, I
am. Final salary pensions, sorry, their days are over. Sick pay, a week, then you're on SSP. Notice? A week. 20 years ago I was getting
pensions, relocation expenses, even the odd golden hello as a recent graduate. Month or 3 months notice, 3 or 6 months on sick pay. Nice, and I was no
big wheel. Forget that now, you are on your own. It all came to a head at the end of 2009 when I was in a bad bike accident, off work 2 months then
that was it, sacked. 1 week notice.
Times have changed and not necessarily for the better. I'm now a contractor, daily rate. OK if I have another accident (God forbid) I'm
screwed but what's new? At least here I'm master of my own destiny and I earn enough when I'm working to cover the lean times. I
currently have 2 days a week and I can live on it.
So in short I don't think 2 sisters are badly run or anything new. They are just screwing their staff, contractors and suppliers as hard as they
can. That's business, and the only solution is to find something better. There's going to be a lot more of this before it gets better.
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paulf
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| posted on 3/3/12 at 10:38 PM |
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Yes your probably correct in many ways, I was quite content in my job the company atmosphere was good and I had good terms and conditions, final
salary pension, 3 months sick and 3 month notice period no pay rise last year and not much chance of one this year etc.. Now my pension has gone and
there is talk of altering most other aspects of our contracts, the people on the clock look set to loose there premium rates ie all over time to
become time and a quarter along with shift premiums disappearing and other losses including some jobs, unsurprisingly the workforce morale is now
very low.
This all comes from a company that continually talks of ethical policy's and team working, the MD has only visited our site once and walked
around with his minder and every time he has been due to visit since he has sent some one else to stand in.I don't think his ethics would stop
him from eventually screwing the consumers with higher prices as they get a greater hold on the market.
The company has never been a union site but now a large percentage of the hourly paid workers have signed up with unions but to late in my opinion.I
am now thinking that instead of staying there until I retire as was the intention that I ought to be looking for a change in direction myself.
Paul
quote:
Originally posted by batteredoldsupersport
I sympatise, I've been in food for years and contracts are hardening year on year to the point where you may as well be a temp. So guess what, I
am. Final salary pensions, sorry, their days are over. Sick pay, a week, then you're on SSP. Notice? A week. 20 years ago I was getting
pensions, relocation expenses, even the odd golden hello as a recent graduate. Month or 3 months notice, 3 or 6 months on sick pay. Nice, and I was no
big wheel. Forget that now, you are on your own. It all came to a head at the end of 2009 when I was in a bad bike accident, off work 2 months then
that was it, sacked. 1 week notice.
Times have changed and not necessarily for the better. I'm now a contractor, daily rate. OK if I have another accident (God forbid) I'm
screwed but what's new? At least here I'm master of my own destiny and I earn enough when I'm working to cover the lean times. I
currently have 2 days a week and I can live on it.
So in short I don't think 2 sisters are badly run or anything new. They are just screwing their staff, contractors and suppliers as hard as they
can. That's business, and the only solution is to find something better. There's going to be a lot more of this before it gets better.
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Andy W
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 12:24 PM |
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I used to work for Northern in Hull, until the site closed in 2009, I have a frozen final salary pension with them. I know they are supposed be
protected, but I wonder what will left in 20 years when I need mine
Andy
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