daniel mason
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| posted on 23/1/15 at 08:16 AM |
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There's so many conflicting views though! I was told specifically that it was actual combined weights and not plated weights before I bought my
tow car.
So I got a light ish covered trailer @600kg and a carbon tub race car @ under 300kg
Just so I could get a decent tow truck. Kia sorrento @circa 2050kg
All In and loaded I'm around 3250kg but it's so easy in the 4x4 you don't realise it's on the back!
I'll need a re think now
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dhutch
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| posted on 24/1/15 at 12:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
There's so many conflicting views though! I was told specifically that it ....
That's the issue.
The formal site giving advice over simplifies the information such that the detail is missing, and when you speak to people for advice, the answers
vary and conflict, with mixed evidence of what is actually policed on the roadside.
I have yet to be stopped, which slightly surprises me given stories of people who have been stopped, but it does appear it is being policed, and not
sure a case of 'only going to come to light is you have an accident' type afair.
Daniel
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coozer
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| posted on 24/1/15 at 12:48 PM |
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Easiest way to look at is.. The specced towing limit for your car, check the manufacturers data and make sure you check the exact model.
Then pick a trailer with a gross weight that his less than the permitted vehicles towing weight.
Then, make sure the combined gross weight for both is under 3.5t.
And, make sure the trailer fully loaded is less than the max gross weight of the trailer.
Example: My unit and trailer last night had an unlaiden weight of 15.1t. However its max gross weight is 38t. That means I cannot go through a 18t
weight restriction even if I'm empty and only 15.1t!
This because the rules are set at the maximum weights.
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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dhutch
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| posted on 24/1/15 at 12:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Easiest way to look at is.. The specced towing limit for your car, check the manufacturers data and make sure you check the exact model.
Then pick a trailer with a gross weight that his less than the permitted vehicles towing weight.
Then, make sure the combined gross weight for both is under 3.5t.
And, make sure the trailer fully loaded is less than the max gross weight of the trailer.
This because the rules are set at the maximum weights.
Yes, obviously including in the the fact that you can de-rate the trailer if you wish, as I understand it.
Reference to the weight being the maximum gross (Max GVW), or max allowable mass (MAM), has confusingly be removed from the gov.uk site, but from
what's posted here, it appears this is certainly still how its being policed, and I expect its more likely that this is over simplification of
the guidelines than a change in the laws.
A while it is not really the right way to think, and doesn't effect me as such, I also understand that while the penalty for towing/driving over
laden is quite significant, it is almost supprisingly not a bad as that for driving with plates the don't match up, which gets booked as driving
without a valid license.
Daniel
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 24/1/15 at 12:58 PM |
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I got my license before 1997.
if you have a vehicle that doesn't have a plated tow weight , ie an old Volvo 240 . How do you stay within the rules....
also, does the 3.5ton rule extend to those with a test before 1997...?
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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dhutch
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| posted on 24/1/15 at 01:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Volvorsport
I got my license before 1997.
if you have a vehicle that doesn't have a plated tow weight , ie an old Volvo 240 . How do you stay within the rules....
also, does the 3.5ton rule extend to those with a test before 1997...?
The limit for those who passed before 1997 is typically 8.25 tons. Hence for almost any car/trailer combination you are unlikely to hit this limit,
although as you have said you still have to comply with the limits of what trailer the car is signed off to tow. What is on the pack of your
license?
Assuming there is nothing in the handbook, parkers fact&figures seems blank, so I would start with some more googling around subject, but then
move onto a call to the DVLA/VOSA on that one...
##
I have also just found this page, which is the page I was looking for before and helps add some clarity.
https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car
Cant really see what changed in 2013, but something must have done..
Daniel
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 24/1/15 at 01:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by dhutch
quote:
Originally posted by Volvorsport
I got my license before 1997.
if you have a vehicle that doesn't have a plated tow weight , ie an old Volvo 240 . How do you stay within the rules....
also, does the 3.5ton rule extend to those with a test before 1997...?
The limit for those who passed before 1997 is typically 8.25 tons. Hence for almost any car/trailer combination you are unlikely to hit this limit,
although as you have said you still have to comply with the limits of what trailer the car is signed off to tow. What is on the pack of your
license?
Assuming there is nothing in the handbook, parkers fact&figures seems blank, so I would start with some more googling around subject, but then
move onto a call to the DVLA/VOSA on that one...
##
I have also just found this page, which is the page I was looking for before and helps add some clarity.
https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car
Cant really see what changed in 2013, but something must have done..
Daniel
as i understand it if its not plated it cant be enforced.
my license is
b, be , c1,c1e, d1,d1e. Fklnp
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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coozer
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| posted on 24/1/15 at 01:39 PM |
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The limit for b+e is 7.5t, above that you need a C licence.
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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daniel mason
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| posted on 24/1/15 at 01:58 PM |
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That's what I mean!
The website says weight must not exceed 3500kgs and that the trailer plus load must be under kerb weight of car!
I tick both these boxes.
But if you go on the mam of both I fail
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coozer
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| posted on 24/1/15 at 02:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
That's what I mean!
The website says weight must not exceed 3500kgs and that the trailer plus load must be under kerb weight of car!
I tick both these boxes.
But if you go on the mam of both I fail
Trailer plated and loaded weight must be under the vehicles towing limit not the kerb weight. And under 3.5t!
This post would be easier to describe with the towing vehicles specs! I'll go dig mine out.....
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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coozer
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| posted on 24/1/15 at 02:28 PM |
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Here's mine, all info off the V5. Fiat Doblo 1.9
Technical permissible maximum towable mass of the trailer:
Max in service
Braked 1300kg
Unbraked 500kg
Max permissible mass: 3250kg
So, I can tow an unbraked loaded trailer up to a max of 500kg, or, a braked (caravan etc) up to a max of 1300kg. The combined total gross cannot
exceed 3250kg.
Surprised at the low limit on the unbraked mind, need to replate my trailer!! Or, connect the brakes
[Edited on 24/1/15 by coozer]
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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daniel mason
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| posted on 24/1/15 at 03:31 PM |
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I'm going to try to speak with someone to confirm as its a load of crap!
They are basically saying I'd be safer towing my 1000kg rig with a family.hatch back than my 4x4 even tough I'm well inside the 3500kg
weight.
I understand that in theory I could load the trailer with a 1500kg and full the 4x4 with a ton of lead and go for a drive but I dont. Ever!
I have the trailer loaded @1100 kg max and in the car just me,my clothes and a few tools
[Edited on 24/1/15 by daniel mason]
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daviep
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| posted on 24/1/15 at 07:37 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coozer
quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
That's what I mean!
The website says weight must not exceed 3500kgs and that the trailer plus load must be under kerb weight of car!
I tick both these boxes.
But if you go on the mam of both I fail
Trailer plated and loaded weight must be under the vehicles towing limit not the kerb weight. And under 3.5t!
This post would be easier to describe with the towing vehicles specs! I'll go dig mine out.....
Daniels understanding is correct - the laden weight of the trailer must be less than the kerb weight of the towing vehicle.
Category B license obtained after 1997 pasted from .GOV
"Vehicles up to 3,500kg Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) and up to 8 passenger seats with trailer up to 750kg; trailers over 750kg if combined
weight of vehicle and trailer isn’t over 3,500kg and the fully-loaded trailer doesn’t weigh more than the unladen vehicle"
See HERE for description of licenses categoriesHERE
Obviously you must still adhere to vehicle/trailer limits.
Regards
Davie
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
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daniel mason
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| posted on 24/1/15 at 07:45 PM |
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Davie. It clearly states combined weight of trailer and vehicle isn't over 3500 kgs. ( which mine isn't)
It doesn't say anything regarding MAM or GVW? What are your thoughts on this as mam is only mentioned when towing an unbraked 750kg limited
trailer with a 3.5t MAM tow car!
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daniel mason
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| posted on 24/1/15 at 07:47 PM |
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Ah, it's clearly listed in ticense section! I'm gonna have to sell up AGAIN!
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daviep
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| posted on 24/1/15 at 08:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
Ah, it's clearly listed in ticense section! I'm gonna have to sell up AGAIN!
Can you not re plate your trailer to bring you within cat B?
Regards
Davie
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
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daniel mason
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| posted on 24/1/15 at 08:56 PM |
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No. I have a 2006 kia sorento 4x4. Massive load and towing capacity for a 2t truck!
The trailers not the issue as I'm at a max of 1100kg even fully loaded
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daniel mason
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| posted on 24/1/15 at 09:01 PM |
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2640kg MAM
650kg payload
1990kg kerb
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onenastyviper
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| posted on 24/1/15 at 09:37 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
Ah, it's clearly listed in ticense section! I'm gonna have to sell up AGAIN!
instead of selling up again,why dont you go for the b+e?
that way you are not restricted to the b towing entitlement?
"If I knew what I was doing then it wouldn't be called research would it?...duh!"
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daniel mason
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| posted on 24/1/15 at 09:48 PM |
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That's the other option but at the cost plus time off work it really adds up! And the chances are I'll make money on the cars. I usually
do!
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jeffw
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| posted on 24/1/15 at 10:01 PM |
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Think I'm OK with the Range Rover and
A, B, BE, B1, C1, C1E, D1, D1E, fklmp
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talkingcars
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| posted on 25/1/15 at 10:31 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coozer
The limit for b+e is 7.5t, above that you need a C licence.
and a 750kg trailer i.e.8.25.
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bigfoot4616
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| posted on 25/1/15 at 01:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
That's the other option but at the cost plus time off work it really adds up! And the chances are I'll make money on the cars. I usually
do!
but once you've done it it'll make things a lot easier, you never know what you might want to tow in the future.
what does the test cost?
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Oddified
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| posted on 25/1/15 at 02:11 PM |
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Luckily i'm old enough to have all the letters on my licence so it's not an issue, but if i had one of the newer ones with the
restrictions for towing it has to be easier to take the extra test than doing all the arsing around juggling weights to keep inside the limits.
Ian
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daniel mason
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| posted on 25/1/15 at 02:29 PM |
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It's not difficult to under the 3500 kg mam limit
A car wth a 2t mam is quite big and a 1.5t MAM trailer is quite a decent size!
Doing the hills and sprints means the competition car must be as light as physically possible (think 300kg) or you'll be completely outpaced.
Which does leave plenty of loading capacity.
It was the mam of the tow car which I fail on so may need a re think
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