russbost
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| posted on 14/11/15 at 10:29 AM |
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& my facebook feed is now full of idiots asking us to pray for the victims - yup, that's gonna help loads! 
Jeremy Corbyn thinks we should have captured Jihadi John & brought him to trial - yeah? really? perhaps he'd like to pop over to Syria &
bring a few of the ISIS people back personally for "talks" - these events were very likely in response to Jihadi John's killing, but
does that mean we were wrong to take him out?
The problem is that we in the western world can have no means of understanding what goes on in the minds of people who have been brought up in a
completely different society to ours & brainwashed from an early age into total belief in a higher power that if they martyr themselves is going
to grant them a marvellous "next life"
Closing borders & screaming for blood isn't an answer, that something needs to be done is pretty obvious, but exactly what I certainly
don't know & I don't suppose anyone else really does either - knee jerk reactions are highly unlikely to provide an answer either
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
|
NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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jimgiblett
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| posted on 14/11/15 at 12:27 PM |
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It's very sad times indeed.
If you get a chance to watch the documentary Bitter Lake it gives one of the most plausible reasons on how the world got itself into this mess.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p02gyz6b/adam-curtis-bitter-lake
Jim
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owelly
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| posted on 14/11/15 at 01:54 PM |
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My opinion? Don't feed the cowardly terrorists the publicity they thrive on. Don't give them nick-names or any sort of infamy.
Then fight fire with fire. Infiltrate the ring-leaders and send the boys in. Leave no traces and leave them wondering wtf was happening. They'd
soon start looking at each other and eventually have a pop at each other....
As for folks ranting about the refugees that are Isis...the refugees are fleeing from these idiots. Perhaps 8 Isis members hid amonst the genuine
refugees but that's a tiny proportion of them.
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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myke pocock
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| posted on 14/11/15 at 04:58 PM |
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8 may be a tiny proportion of them but look what they achieved if they did come in that way. Apparently a passport has been found near one of them
showing where he came from. I cannot help but feel that when we went down the route of faith schools here that did untold damage. Not saying thats the
full story but it sure hasnt helped.
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Slimy38
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| posted on 14/11/15 at 05:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by spaximus
Religion has killed more than any other reason in history. We need our leaders to get a grip and stop any religious schools and to separate religion
from everything else.
I'd offer a slight adjustment to that statement. 'More people have killed in the name of religion than any other reason'. I am 99%
sure that there is no religion that says you must go out and kill people, it's extremist people who interpret and twist the religion to suit
their desires.
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02GF74
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| posted on 14/11/15 at 05:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38
I'd offer a slight adjustment to that statement. 'More people have killed in the name of religion than any other reason'..
I have to disagree and a quick google tends to support that. More died due to economic, tribal, national or politicak wars.
The total is between 16 million and 31 million deaths due to religion in recorded history. By comparison, 60 million people died in World War II.
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slingshot2000
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| posted on 14/11/15 at 05:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Time we get out of Europe and shut the island down!
Exactly what Coozer said !!!
And lets get it sorted; sooner rather than later !
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minibull
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| posted on 14/11/15 at 05:43 PM |
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Actually the Koran does advocate going out and killing people unless they convert and worship Allah. However it also recognises that Jews and
Christians worship the same God, so providing these pay a tax to true believers they are to be spared. It's well worth reading. The Old
Testament isn't much better. Where would people be without the guidance of a caring and benevolent God ? Regardless most Muslims ( and
Christians ) tend to have more sense than implement the instructions, but the sad few who don't can legitimately claim it's the will of
God. There seems to be no way of preventing stupid people doing horrendous things.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 14/11/15 at 06:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by myke pocock
8 may be a tiny proportion of them but look what they achieved if they did come in that way. Apparently a passport has been found near one of them
showing where he came from. I cannot help but feel that when we went down the route of faith schools here that did untold damage. Not saying thats the
full story but it sure hasnt helped.
Faith schools were and are the cause of most of the problems in Norther Ireland and the West of Scotland and that was among so called Christian
faiths.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Irony
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| posted on 14/11/15 at 06:25 PM |
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Saddam would have sorted them out.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 14/11/15 at 06:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by minibull
Actually the Koran does advocate going out and killing people unless they convert and worship Allah. However it also recognises that Jews and
Christians worship the same God, so providing these pay a tax to true believers they are to be spared. It's well worth reading. The Old
Testament isn't much better. Where would people be without the guidance of a caring and benevolent God ? Regardless most Muslims ( and
Christians ) tend to have more sense than implement the instructions, but the sad few who don't can legitimately claim it's the will of
God. There seems to be no way of preventing stupid people doing horrendous things.
I have two real fears.
The signs are that the extreme right are on the rise across mainland Europe, lay the blame for that one at Merkels open door.
Sooner or later the conflicts in the middle east will go nuclear that will change nothing.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Texan
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| posted on 14/11/15 at 08:02 PM |
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I was finally able to get some information this morning. Last night I kept getting headlines that something had happened but no substance.
It is as I expected and feared
Once you are past the training of how to use a gun or suicide vest (which of necessity has to be simplicity itself) the planning and coordination of
these types of things are child's play - literally. As a kid we planned more elaborate raids upon the other kid's forts when we
played.
It doesn't take encrypted this or that, you could plan this out in the open on Facebook if you wanted. Once the weapons are in place the
"high level planning" really could have been as simple as all of them going out for pizza and afterwards deciding "Hey, let's
do this thing."
So unless they were incredibly stupid or they bragged about it ahead of time how in the world would anyone expect the authorities to know? I mean
there's no reason to ascribe some sort of mystical powers or high level thinking & planning to these guys. Even an idiot could pull this
off.
Al Queda and others have had training camps for decades where they've trained a million or more people how to use the weapons. That means the
tough part has already been done.
If you do any amount of reading or have been in the service you realize that in a military operation the hard part isn't getting to a target and
destroying a person or persons, IT'S THE GETTING OUT ALIVE PART THAT'S TOUGH. If you don't care if you get out alive then the rest
is child's play to a determined person.
You can't stop an attack by a small number of people who don't care if they get killed. Add to that a religion or a belief style that
makes it an honor to die this way and it's inevitable.
So I'm another with nothing constructive to say and definitely no solutions.
[Edited on 15/11/15 by Texan]
I drive therefore I am.
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Angel Acevedo
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| posted on 14/11/15 at 08:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38
I'd offer a slight adjustment to that statement. 'More people have killed in the name of religion than any other reason'..
I have to disagree and a quick google tends to support that. More died due to economic, tribal, national or politicak wars.
The total is between 16 million and 31 million deaths due to religion in recorded history. By comparison, 60 million people died in World War II.
Don´t forget religion played a BIG part of this death toll.
Beware of what you wish.. for it may come true....
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02GF74
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| posted on 14/11/15 at 09:39 PM |
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the estimated figure of 6 million Jews who perished in ww2 is taken into account in the 16-31 million, not sure if that was included in the 60
million. again googling shows that 160 million perished in wars in the 20 century alone, and there were quite a few before that where over a million
people died so the number is far greater than that killed due to religion.
[Edited on 14/11/15 by 02GF74]
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myke pocock
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| posted on 14/11/15 at 10:51 PM |
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Mmmm, so lets forget about those killed in the name of religion then as its a smaller percentage. I THINK NOT!!!
Yeah thank GOD for statistics
[Edited on 14/11/15 by myke pocock]
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Angel Acevedo
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| posted on 15/11/15 at 01:46 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
the estimated figure of 6 million Jews who perished in ww2 is taken into account in the 16-31 million, not sure if that was included in the 60
million. again googling shows that 160 million perished in wars in the 20 century alone, and there were quite a few before that where over a million
people died so the number is far greater than that killed due to religion.
[Edited on 14/11/15 by 02GF74]
02GF74
Cold numbers that may be, but a frenchman or an ally fighting against The axis killed during the course of WWII would be a religion related death; the
problem is that you can´t ponder what "Percentage"of such death would be "Religion Related"
But then, I am not saying is correct or incorrect, it is only my opinion that the figures may not be that accurate.
Beware of what you wish.. for it may come true....
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britishtrident
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| posted on 15/11/15 at 03:46 PM |
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In WW1 battle of the Somme Butcher Haig wasn't bothered about the the tens of thousands of his own men killed because he was convinced he was
sending them to heaven.
Back in the 13th Century a fairly harmless Christian sect in the South of France & Northern Italy were wiped out to please the then Pope, the
last 166 Cathars mainly simple fisher folk were held in the Scaliger Castle at Sirmione and then marched naked to the Roman Arena in Verona where they
were burned at the steak en mass.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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craig1410
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| posted on 15/11/15 at 08:35 PM |
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I'm not religious myself but respect (most of) those who do believe in some form of god (or 'Sky Fairy' as someone else put it 
)
However, despite the many good things that religion is capable of bringing to the world I can't help but feel it is a net loss when measured
globally over the long term. I believe that 'Faith' is something that we can all benefit from but that faith can be in ourselves, in our
family & friends or just in the balance of nature, it doesn't have to be faith in some all powerful being or in a church. Let's not
forget that our churches and religious leaders have let us down in some terrible ways over the years too.
As someone who grew up in the West of Scotland with religious segregation of schools, how can this possibly do anything other than cause tension and
division? I attended a non-religious school and had many friends who attended RC schools but those friends were never as close as those I spent my
school time with for obvious reasons. I also witnessed religious tension on many occasions and although I never caused this personally, it was almost
impossible to avoid as there are always those within your extended groups of friends who have more extreme views than yourself and somehow you get
caught in the crossfire. The only alternative you have sometimes is just to go home and isolate yourself from everyone, something I had to do more
than once sadly.
I don't know what the solution to all this is but if we're not in a position to change the ways of the world at large, which clearly we
are not, then the best we can do is try to protect our own corner of the world. To that end we need to continue to invest in defence and maintain our
nuclear deterrent. Perhaps one day the technology will exist to allow us to detect and disable or destroy nuclear weapons as they are launched but
that seems unlikely if you have seen recent reports about the Russians developing nuclear torpedoes. Even nuclear submarines can deliver warheads with
little chance of shooting them down over enemy territory.
We also need better control of our borders, as I believe that the attacks on Paris are most likely a result of easier access to that country than our
own although it would be foolish to believe that we can prevent half a dozen or so attackers from getting into the UK. Fortunately it is a bit more
difficult to get weapons into the UK but again probably not impossible to those willing to die for their cause.
Above all we need to stop segregation of UK citizens so that people have fewer reasons to 'defect' to Syria (or anywhere else) because
they feel unwelcome in the UK. Everyone who is already a UK citizen should feel proud of this country and should be made welcome and have all the
opportunity they could desire to have a prosperous and happy life here. People immigrating here should be controlled in a way that ensures a good
cultural fit and be given a constructive introduction to UK life rather than sneaking in through the back door. Again, integration over division, but
in a controlled way.
Anyway, my thoughts are with those affected in France and around the world.
ps. I don't believe that this attack was in response to Jihadi John being killed. This attack would have required considerable planning and I
doubt it could have been arranged in less than a day.
[Edited on 15/11/2015 by craig1410]
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ravingfool
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| posted on 15/11/15 at 09:44 PM |
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Doesn't it all come down to money and power?
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that those accused of or guilty of suicide and similar attacks in the name of religion are disenfranchised
in some respect. It's not a single religion or location that leads to this behaviour as people with local ancestry are being radicalised too.
(very interesting couple of documentaries called something like 'my brother the islamist' and 'my brother the terrorist' shows
the radicalisation of what otherwise appeared to be a normal middle class white lad)
Obviously people like osama bin laden came from a more privileged background but then he wasn't the one rushing out to blow himself up, in fact
it seemed he went to very great lengths to avoid being located and to stay alive as long as possible.
Funny that.
Always seemed interesting to me as an outsider that you hear on the news of these radical preachers who apparently are the source of a lot of plans
or ideas for terrorist attacks in which younger people are encouraged to have no fear because what they're doing is for the greater good and
they'll be looked after in heaven or wherever... but none of the leaders ever get caught 'bomb-in-hand'.
Do the youth that get pulled or pushed into these organisations ever wonder how there is anyone left in the group if they could just blow themselves
up to go to heaven? Or indeed how come the preacher or leader is so old and yet they've stuck around all this time in a world filled with
inequality or whatever that only fatwa or similar can heal?
hmm, just seems a bit fishy.
Little difference really between any of this and the historical intertwining of church and state in so many countries and its use to control the
masses. I would have thought the only real way to make a big lasting improvement in global security will be to improve the standard of living for
everyone. Surely it is inequality that breeds all this nonsense. I'm not going out starting holy wars because I've got to be at work on
Monday and if I go to work all week then maybe next weekend I'll be able to afford a few beers and to relax for a few minutes.
Get everyone a job, some responsibilities, a couple of quid. job done. If only resources weren't finite and mankind so jealously greedy.
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craig1410
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| posted on 15/11/15 at 09:59 PM |
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There is certainly a lot of truth to what you say - there always seem to be people who seek to manipulate others and sadly there are always plenty of
vulnerable people looking for leadership however misguided it might be.
I suppose the closest most of us might come to understanding this is if our own lives or those of our loved ones were ever threatened. Ask yourself
what you might be prepared to do to prevent the death of a loved one or yourself. There are people who can manipulate vulnerable people to experience
this emotion and then direct the response to serve their purposes.
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SteveWalker
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| posted on 15/11/15 at 10:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
quote:
Originally posted by myke pocock
8 may be a tiny proportion of them but look what they achieved if they did come in that way. Apparently a passport has been found near one of them
showing where he came from. I cannot help but feel that when we went down the route of faith schools here that did untold damage. Not saying thats the
full story but it sure hasnt helped.
Faith schools were and are the cause of most of the problems in Norther Ireland and the West of Scotland and that was among so called Christian
faiths.
The problems in Northern Ireland may have been prolonged by faith schools, but they were not the cause.
In recent history in England there has never been any problem with Christian or Jewish faith schools; I have not heard of any problems with Sihk or
Hindu schools either. There does seem to be a problem with Islamic schools at the moment, possibly because Islam's values seems not to fit in at
all with the values of Western society.
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ravingfool
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| posted on 15/11/15 at 10:29 PM |
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It's all very sad.
I'm sure the vast majority of people all over the world, regardless of their personal circumstaces, just want to get on with their lives and
make the best of the opportunities that they find or make for themselves.
You're absolutely right by the way about the need for integration but I fear it's not that easy and requires generations of mandatory
inclusive environments (such as schools) and I really think it has to go hand in hand with economic improvements. Not easily managed, though a shift
in government attitude to pre Thatcher politics to aim for complete employment rather than fluidity of labour for the benefit of company owners would
reduce idleness and lack of self worth in the UK population for a start.
I worry more about all the knee jerk reaction to this type of event. Yes it's absolutely attrocious what happened but we can't simply
raise the drawbridge and take this out on the milions of genuine refugees fleeing exactly this type of thing occurring on a daily basis in Syria.
Sometimes religion has some good ideas. We need to learn to turn the other cheek sometimes.
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ravingfool
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| posted on 15/11/15 at 10:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by SteveWalker
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
quote:
Originally posted by myke pocock
8 may be a tiny proportion of them but look what they achieved if they did come in that way. Apparently a passport has been found near one of them
showing where he came from. I cannot help but feel that when we went down the route of faith schools here that did untold damage. Not saying thats the
full story but it sure hasnt helped.
Faith schools were and are the cause of most of the problems in Norther Ireland and the West of Scotland and that was among so called Christian
faiths.
The problems in Northern Ireland may have been prolonged by faith schools, but they were not the cause.
In recent history in England there has never been any problem with Christian or Jewish faith schools; I have not heard of any problems with Sihk or
Hindu schools either. There does seem to be a problem with Islamic schools at the moment, possibly because Islam's values seems not to fit in at
all with the values of Western society.
the problem with faith schools in the UK is current and future. There have been increasing numbers of these over the last 10 years when previously
there were very few. Faith schools of any denomination are such a bad idea because the don't allow young people the opportunity to mix with and
experience people who are not like them in an environment of trust and cooperation where their interations will be closely monitored and policed by
teachers to ensure that they will treat people of different faiths and social and ethnic backgrounds equally and fairly when they grow up too.
Instead children grow up isolated and if their family background does not encourage inclusion and respect then they are less likely to learn this
themselves.
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russbost
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| posted on 16/11/15 at 08:14 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ravingfool
Doesn't it all come down to money and power?
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that those accused of or guilty of suicide and similar attacks in the name of religion are disenfranchised
in some respect. It's not a single religion or location that leads to this behaviour as people with local ancestry are being radicalised too.
(very interesting couple of documentaries called something like 'my brother the islamist' and 'my brother the terrorist' shows
the radicalisation of what otherwise appeared to be a normal middle class white lad)
Obviously people like osama bin laden came from a more privileged background but then he wasn't the one rushing out to blow himself up, in fact
it seemed he went to very great lengths to avoid being located and to stay alive as long as possible.
Funny that.
Always seemed interesting to me as an outsider that you hear on the news of these radical preachers who apparently are the source of a lot of plans
or ideas for terrorist attacks in which younger people are encouraged to have no fear because what they're doing is for the greater good and
they'll be looked after in heaven or wherever... but none of the leaders ever get caught 'bomb-in-hand'.
Do the youth that get pulled or pushed into these organisations ever wonder how there is anyone left in the group if they could just blow themselves
up to go to heaven? Or indeed how come the preacher or leader is so old and yet they've stuck around all this time in a world filled with
inequality or whatever that only fatwa or similar can heal?
hmm, just seems a bit fishy.
Little difference really between any of this and the historical intertwining of church and state in so many countries and its use to control the
masses. I would have thought the only real way to make a big lasting improvement in global security will be to improve the standard of living for
everyone. Surely it is inequality that breeds all this nonsense. I'm not going out starting holy wars because I've got to be at work on
Monday and if I go to work all week then maybe next weekend I'll be able to afford a few beers and to relax for a few minutes.
Get everyone a job, some responsibilities, a couple of quid. job done. If only resources weren't finite and mankind so jealously greedy.
Pretty much spot on, I would suggest take a look at This
the guy talks a lot of sense & straightens out the journalists on their typical bigoted regurgitated statements, closing our borders is not an
answer, first you're way too late & second it would just heighten tension further - perhaps if we & the U.S. stopped selling arms to
these people or others it just might help a bit?
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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ali f27
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| posted on 16/11/15 at 08:33 AM |
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Find out who is supplying them arms stop it job done too simple maby, think about it a gun is no better than a club with no bullits
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