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What is a reasonable amount of HP from a 2.0L MX-5 lump?

beagley - 2/3/11 at 02:21 PM

According to the webs the 2.0L MZR14 engine come out of the box with 168hp and 140tq. Im aiming for a total power somewhere between 200 and 220 hp. I'm assuming that to get that kind of increase I will need to use forced induction. I plan on rebuilding an engine with new internals, more for peace of mind, but is that a substantial increase (20%)? Will it require a new diff and dog box as well?

You guys that have miata lumps what kind of power are you creating and how.... if you don't mind giving your trade secrets away. What about your gear boxes 5sp, 6sp, auto ?

Thanks,

Beags

[Edited on 3/2/2011 by beagley]

[Edited on 3/2/2011 by beagley]

mcerd1 - 2/3/11 at 02:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by beagley
You guys that have miata lumps

you need to translate that: Miata = MX5 on this side of the water

[Edited on 2/3/2011 by mcerd1]

beagley - 2/3/11 at 02:28 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1

quote:
Originally posted by beagley
You guys that have miata lumps

you need to translate that: Miata = MX5 on this side of the water

[Edited on 2/3/2011 by mcerd1]

My apologies..... I forget sometimes. I try to remember to speak proper english when I use the forum.

mcerd1 - 2/3/11 at 02:37 PM

:LOL:

all I know about the MZR engines is that they are basicaly the same as the duratec's which are very popular over here at the moment in all kinds of cars
with loads of tunning parts and of the shelf engines avalible (cosworth make alot of very shinny bits for them)
as to what the differences are I don't have a clue, but I'm told the duratec's will fit the 6spd. manual MX5 boxes

and a 2.0 duratec can easy make 200bhp with minimal mods: linky

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to fill in the details....

[Edited on 2/3/2011 by mcerd1]

beagley - 2/3/11 at 02:42 PM

I know FlakMonkey on this forum has done an AMAZING job with a duratek which has caused me to drool multiple times. I want to budge around 4k USD (2456 GBP) for my engine/gear box.

I have already told myself that I won't be able to get a duratec for that kind of money which is why I was looking at the MX-5 gear. I do like that option though, I could even use FlakMonkey's well designed oil pan.... guess I need to go fire up my money machine and print some more.

Beags

v8kid - 2/3/11 at 02:44 PM

I'm also interested to see as my better half has a 2l MX5 and since it is well out of warranty now I was thinking of the supercharger/turbo route but only have a couple of Łk to spend. Did not know it was the same as the ford engine it looks different superficially?

Cheers!

beagley - 2/3/11 at 02:51 PM

quote:
Originally posted by v8kid
I'm also interested to see as my better half has a 2l MX5 and since it is well out of warranty now I was thinking of the supercharger/turbo route but only have a couple of Łk to spend. Did not know it was the same as the ford engine it looks different superficially?

Cheers!

I thought they were different, but the more I read up on the current MX5 (NC model) the more I believe that they are using the duratec engine. Hmm..... I might just have to get an MK powered by ford then.

mcerd1 - 2/3/11 at 02:57 PM

I'm sure there will be some differences (there are some changes just between the differnt ford fitments) but alot of tunning parts seem to be listed to fit either...

MakeEverything - 2/3/11 at 03:02 PM

There are a lot of MX-5's in the US with the eaton M45 supercharger with some pretty good results.

v8kid - 2/3/11 at 03:10 PM

From what I can gleam from 'tinternet the MX5 engine has VVT and variable inlet length. Problems are with ECU changes for VVT and packaging of inlet plumbing for supercharger.
All in all makes a kit more desirable but surely if SDB can set 208bhp without vvt just by changing inlets the MX% should make more with VVT?

MakeEverything - 2/3/11 at 03:17 PM

quote:
Originally posted by v8kid
From what I can gleam from 'tinternet the MX5 engine has VVT and variable inlet length. Problems are with ECU changes for VVT and packaging of inlet plumbing for supercharger.
All in all makes a kit more desirable but surely if SDB can set 208bhp without vvt just by changing inlets the MX% should make more with VVT?

I think they use piggyback chips in addition to the standard ECU, thus overcoming the issues youve mentioned.

pewe - 2/3/11 at 03:27 PM

Depending on how/what your going to use it for and based on having driven both supercharged and turbo cars (not MX5s mind you) I'd go for supercharged.
Turbos are great, giving "free" power but it all happens fairly high up the rev range.
A blower on the other hand is there from the moment you crack the throttle open.
In terms of complexity the blower is strap it on and off you go (well almost) rather than messing about tuning the engine majorly to access significant power hikes.
As has been said there seems to quite a bit of experience State side blowing MX5s.
HTH.
Cheers, Pewe

beagley - 2/3/11 at 03:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by pewe
Depending on how/what your going to use it for and based on having driven both supercharged and turbo cars (not MX5s mind you) I'd go for supercharged.
Turbos are great, giving "free" power but it all happens fairly high up the rev range.
A blower on the other hand is there from the moment you crack the throttle open.
In terms of complexity the blower is strap it on and off you go (well almost) rather than messing about tuning the engine majorly to access significant power hikes.
As has been said there seems to quite a bit of experience State side blowing MX5s.
HTH.
Cheers, Pewe

I do kind of lean more toward the supercharged route as I feel it gives more "usable" power. I've been in contact with a mazda race shop close to my house that will hopefully help me out. I'll try to skip the "newbie" comments and questions, but I plan on mostly road use with the occasional track day.

People have done some crazy things to MX5s over here. I've recently seen a plethora of LS v-8s being dropped into a mx5 which is.... interesting.

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Beags

beagley - 2/3/11 at 03:46 PM

Just found an article that confirms the Duratecs from 2005+ are actually the Mazda MZR.

Link

I guess that confirms that I will be using a duratec then.

Bare - 2/3/11 at 03:54 PM

I' suggest a Turbo over a Supercharger .. any.. day. Compressors suck crank power all the time. Turbos are 'on demand'.
Turbo installs are simpler to effect.
BOTH compressors AND turbos have lag if incompetently sized to application.
Note even the Mini Cooper 'S' has gone to a turbo from it's previous compressor setup... and having owned one, I can verify that the Supercharged one had serious boost lag.

mcerd1 - 2/3/11 at 03:55 PM

quote:
Originally posted by beagley
I have already told myself that I won't be able to get a duratec for that kind of money...

how much do they cost out of a scrap car over on your side of the pond ?

over here they are starting to get quite cheap

beagley - 2/3/11 at 03:59 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1

quote:
Originally posted by beagley
I have already told myself that I won't be able to get a duratec for that kind of money...

how much do they cost out of a scrap car over on your side of the pond ?

over here they are starting to get quite cheap

My first search turned up a 2005 2.0L with 90k miles for $1,000 (613 gbp) at the scrap yard closest to my house. Not too expensive I guess. Good for me, woo hoo!

[Edited on 3/2/2011 by beagley]

MakeEverything - 2/3/11 at 04:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by pewe

In terms of complexity the blower is strap it on and off you go (well almost) rather than messing about tuning the engine majorly to access significant power hikes.
As has been said there seems to quite a bit of experience State side blowing MX5s.
HTH.
Cheers, Pewe

I prefer supercharged as well, but in terms of complexity, they are both very similar. The difference with the supercharger is that you dont need to install oil and water hoses to cool the bearings (depending on make). If a supercharger pushes out 15psi of boost and a turbo 15psi of boost, then youll still need to carry out the same amount of tuning to get the AFR within limits.

Im installing a SC to a renault 21 turbo engine (to be different and because of my preference) with megasquirt. The Megasquirt challenges would be exactly the same with the turbo, though at least with the supercharger i can tune it to driveable at low revs - at which point the turbo wont really be spooling up. The aim of this, is to drive it to the rolling road for top end tuning.

flak monkey - 2/3/11 at 04:26 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Bare
I' suggest a Turbo over a Supercharger .. any.. day. Compressors suck crank power all the time. Turbos are 'on demand'.
Turbo installs are simpler to effect.
BOTH compressors AND turbos have lag if incompetently sized to application.
Note even the Mini Cooper 'S' has gone to a turbo from it's previous compressor setup... and having owned one, I can verify that the Supercharged one had serious boost lag.

Rubbish

Rotrex chargers draw virtually no power when cruising due to their clever drive system. And an eaton doesnt draw much more if you are using a dump or recirc valve.

The only reason the new Cooper S doesnt use a supercharger is its cheaper to fit a turbo. I had an original Cooper S and there was no boost lag whatsoever.

There are pro's and cons to both. But in a lightweight car the supercharger wins hands down for smooth power delivery throughout the rev range there is no surging power just smooth ever increasing power up to the limiter. Mine would happily cruise along at 35 in 5th gear which was around 1500rpm, and still pick up if you put your foot down as you dont have to lower the compression ratio as much you retain the low down RPM driveability.

This is the plot from my car, show me a dyno plot from a turbo'd Duratec with such smooth power and torque curves and I'll eat my hat....

01-10-10 dyno result

PS - I know I am biased, but I did a lot of research to get my install working. Nothings a secret....

[Edited on 2/3/11 by flak monkey]

ali f27 - 2/3/11 at 04:32 PM

Hi why not look for a 2.3 out of a us focus or ranger our 2.3 hillclimb engine makes 280 plus hp and 240 ftlb of toque

ed1801 - 2/3/11 at 04:42 PM

These guys know everything about tuning MX5's - and they are your side of the pond...

http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?dept=76

beagley - 2/3/11 at 04:43 PM

I have been ALL over the flyinmiata site the past few days. They are kinda pricey though... at least at first glance. I enjoy talking with the lot of you on this forum though. Much more well behaved and entertaining.

jeffw - 2/3/11 at 06:16 PM

Not a turbo'ed Duratec I admit but this V10 RS6 has a pretty smooth graph. 831PS & 977Nm

[Edited on 2/3/11 by jeffw]

MakeEverything - 2/3/11 at 06:19 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
Not a turbo'ed Duratec I admit but this V10 RS6 has a pretty smooth graph. 831PS & 977Nm

[Edited on 2/3/11 by jeffw]

Bi turbo is totally different though. The smaller turbo is sized and designed to eliminate lag.

jeffw - 2/3/11 at 06:23 PM

Not so small turbos....each side is a 2.6 straight 5 in effect with one turbo. Anyway just wanted to share the graph.....amazing car....nothing to do with Mazda MX-5 or Duratecs.

0-60 mph in 3.6 seconds (with limited power in 1st and 2nd gears to aid traction), 100-200 km/h in 6.3 seconds, 0-200 km/h in 10.4 seconds. Top speed is electronically limited at 350 kmh.