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Author: Subject: fuel hose perishing
andyfiggy2002

posted on 27/12/11 at 01:30 PM Reply With Quote
fuel hose perishing

im trying to find fuel hose that doesn't perish due to modern fuel having alcohol based additives, ive the cheap BS AU 108 hose, apparently Gates sell SAE 30 R9 in the USA that is lined with Fluoroelastomer/Nitrile which withstands this new modern fuel but surely if were using the same fuel over here we ought to be able to get the same sought of hose in the UK, where can i find this stuff as im fed up having to replace my hoses every couple of years, surely i'm not the only person in the UK that has this problem, is this the stuff??

7.6mm 5/16' R9 FUEL INJECTION LINE HOSE SAE RUBBER PIPE | eBay

[Edited on 27/12/11 by andyfiggy2002]

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snapper

posted on 27/12/11 at 01:40 PM Reply With Quote
I haven't had any trouble using the stuff from Hafords but the braided stuff from the shows rots quickly





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andrew.carwithen

posted on 27/12/11 at 02:08 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by andyfiggy2002
im trying to find fuel hose that doesn't perish due to modern fuel having alcohol based additives, ive the cheap BS AU 108 hose, apparently Gates sell SAE 30 R9 in the USA that is lined with Fluoroelastomer/Nitrile which withstands this new modern fuel but surely if were using the same fuel over here we ought to be able to get the same sought of hose in the UK, where can i find this stuff as im fed up having to replace my hoses every couple of years, surely i'm not the only person in the UK that has this problem, is this the stuff??

LINK



[Edited on 27/12/11 by andyfiggy2002]


Yep. That's where I got mine from and it is marked R9 when it comes. (Apparently, some other ebay sellers have sent R6 instead of R9 to members in the past)

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rusty nuts

posted on 27/12/11 at 02:33 PM Reply With Quote
Have a read of the post at the top of the engine & transmission section of the forum by David Jenkins titled Fuel pipe research, some useful information there!

[Edited on 27/12/11 by rusty nuts]

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Ben_Copeland

posted on 27/12/11 at 02:40 PM Reply With Quote
I bought mine Nitrile stuff off ebay, cheaper and easy to find.....





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UncleFista

posted on 27/12/11 at 04:09 PM Reply With Quote
Thanks to David Jenkins and his exhaustive research, this won't be happening to us again *shudders*


cheap fuel hose
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andyfiggy2002

posted on 27/12/11 at 04:41 PM Reply With Quote
yeh i read the other interesting thread, as regards Halfords they sell the ordinary type, not 73379 3D which is an ethanol resistant type?

goodyear

7.6mm 5/16' R9 FUEL INJECTION LINE HOSE SAE RUBBER PIPE | eBay

gates

pistonheads


[Edited on 28/12/11 by andyfiggy2002]

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Craigorypeck

posted on 27/12/11 at 07:23 PM Reply With Quote
It should be illegal to sell the R6 nowadays.... Stuff thats been on a year in my car is hard and brittle.
wasn't aware of nitrile lined r9 stuff till i read the sticky at the top of page.

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David Jenkins

posted on 27/12/11 at 08:45 PM Reply With Quote
It's a problem that will affect kit cars and classic cars more than most, as it's stale fuel that does the worst damage - so if you lay up your car over the winter then I recommend that you take a close look at your rubber pipes in the spring. Or drain the system!






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paulf

posted on 27/12/11 at 09:32 PM Reply With Quote
I have had to replace a few sections on my car over the last couple of years mainly at the back near the tank the length under the bonnet that has always been there is still perfect but don't know where it came from.
A few years ago when unleaded was first introduced I had a leak on the pipe from the fuel tank on my tin top , when I went to the motor factors for a replacement section they knew then that unleaded caused a problem and sold me some green coloured fuel pipe that was specially for unleaded but haven't seen any since.
Paul

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wicket

posted on 29/12/11 at 10:13 AM Reply With Quote
My previous posting on this subject, (post started by David Jenkins on 4/4/11):-

Since this problem was first posted I have kept a regular check on my hoses. I have checked them again today and they all look fine, no cracks, no leaks and no smell. They have been in use since around 2004/5, so 6 or 7 years, so I thought it worth posting some details of the hose here.

It came with the new carburettor I bought from Southern Carburettors in April 2004 and he markings on the hose are:

Webcon UK BE 4012 WP Leaded/Unleaded 7,4 3Q01

[Edited on 29/12/11 by wicket]

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blakep82

posted on 29/12/11 at 10:54 AM Reply With Quote
I got some marine grade fuel hose, marked ISO 7840 (i think?)
hopefully will stand up better than normal car stuff. its fire resistant too.

any thoughts on this type of stuff?

not sure on pressure ratings and stuff though. i'm on carbs, not sure if its any good for injection.

edit, iso7840 rated up to 0.34 MPa which is 49psi? what does an injection system run at?

[Edited on 29/12/11 by blakep82]





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andyfiggy2002

posted on 3/1/12 at 11:13 PM Reply With Quote
ok guys the buzzwords are fluoroelastomer lined hose, ive written to webcon for clarification of their hose & the 7480 stuff on the goodyear site makes no ref to this lining

LINK

the right stuff

the right stuff2

heres a useful video i found about hoses although barricade is a bit OTT as it can be used up to 100% ethanol
VIDEO


[Edited on 4/1/12 by andyfiggy2002]

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David Jenkins

posted on 4/1/12 at 02:10 PM Reply With Quote
I wish I could get hold of the stuff that's fitted to my ex-bike fuel pump... it''s a short length of grey, very flexible and soft hose that has NEVER shown any sign of rotting. I've never seen anything like it elsewhere, and it's no good going to a bike shop to get some more, as it's a specially moulded piece designed for a specific bike pump.

Thinking of bike shops - I did get offered some thin-wall fuel pipe in the local Honda dealership that was supposed to be up to modern standards, but it didn't have any markings so I didn't want to risk it (it's a total PITA changing the flexible hoses in my car). Might be worth investigating that route, as they often sell stuff that's totally different to what you find in car outlets.

Andy - you wouldn't believe how hard it is to find that proper fuel pipe. I even tried emailing Gates in the UK, and they didn't even know what I was talking about - and I quoted the Gates' US part numbers!

The marine stuff is very good, but still not as good as R9. Its main claim to fame is that it can resist fire for quite a long time (e.g. an engine-room fire on a boat) rather than resistance to fuel.

What I REALLY wanted was some Gates hose I found on their US site - fluoro lined for ethanol, but thin-walled for use with carbs. No way I can find that in Europe...

[Edited on 4/1/12 by David Jenkins]






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paulf

posted on 4/1/12 at 04:31 PM Reply With Quote
I used some hydraulic hose on my car for the link from the swirl pot to the inlet of the fuel pump, it is 15mm bore and has never perished so maybe hydraulic hose may be worth looking at.
Paul

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James

posted on 5/1/12 at 01:36 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins


What I REALLY wanted was some Gates hose I found on their US site - fluoro lined for ethanol, but thin-walled for use with carbs. No way I can find that in Europe...

[Edited on 4/1/12 by David Jenkins]


No way they would ship you some then? What about you order a decent amount and then flog it on here? Make you some pocket money for all the efforts you've put into this research? I'd certainly buy a metre or 2 from you.

Silly question, but is there any connection with the lower RON value that I believe US fuel has? It's about 91 to our 95 isn't it? With the Japanese even higher? Just wondering if that has any effect on this subject?

Cheers,
James

[Edited on 5/1/12 by James]





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andyfiggy2002

posted on 11/1/12 at 02:13 AM Reply With Quote
yeh, SAE30 R9 or DIN 73379-3D lined with FKM fluoroelastomer is impossible to find in the UK as most venders who say they sell it cant verify it has SAE 30 R9 or 73379-3D stamped on the side.

Goodyear, Gates & Dupont sell it in the USA so its strange how they dont want to conquer europe??

Cohline in Germany who supply BMW say they sell it but again with no suitable description on the hose im dubious.

Car Builder Solutions say they might have some by the end of the month so fingers crossed, all you guys thinking SAE30 R7 or DIN 73379-2 nitrile hose is OK think again, look at the link below

link

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andrew.carwithen

posted on 11/1/12 at 01:43 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by andyfiggy2002
yeh, SAE30 R9 or DIN 73379-3D lined with FKM fluoroelastomer is impossible to find in the UK as most venders who say they sell it cant verify it has SAE 30 R9 or 73379-3D stamped on the side.

Goodyear, Gates & Dupont sell it in the USA so its strange how they dont want to conquer europe??

Cohline in Germany who supply BMW say they sell it but again with no suitable description on the hose im dubious.

Car Builder Solutions say they might have some by the end of the month so fingers crossed, all you guys thinking SAE30 R7 or DIN 73379-2 nitrile hose is OK think again, look at the link below

link


As stated previously, The ebay link you had in your original post is where I got my fuel hose from - and it was stamped SAE R9 along its length. I also noticed it had a blue coloured lining which presumably is the fluoroelastomer you are referring to?

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andyfiggy2002

posted on 11/1/12 at 06:50 PM Reply With Quote
Advanced Fluid Solutions sell Cohline hose so i spoke to Cohline who told me their product type 2240 was the one i needed, i found 2240 is 77339-3E or bio-diesel hose as seen on the 3rd page of this link, so can i only assume 3D is SAE 30R9 bio-petrol & 3E is SAE 30 R9 bio-diesel? 3D uses FKM as a liner as per gates, goodyear & dupont, 3E uses FPM/ ECO.

link

as 3D seems unobtainable in europe & at only £4.45/m i think im going to say sod this & just go for it like you andrew

[Edited on 11/1/12 by andyfiggy2002]

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andrew.carwithen

posted on 11/1/12 at 09:31 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by andyfiggy2002
Advanced Fluid Solutions sell Cohline hose so i spoke to Cohline who told me their product type 2240 was the one i needed, i found 2240 is 77339-3E or bio-diesel hose as seen on the 3rd page of this link, so can i only assume 3D is SAE 30R9 bio-petrol & 3E is SAE 30 R9 bio-diesel? 3D uses FKM as a liner as per gates, goodyear & dupont, 3E uses FPM/ ECO.

link

as 3D seems unobtainable in europe & at only £4.45/m i think im going to say sod this & just go for it like you andrew

[Edited on 11/1/12 by andyfiggy2002]


Andy,
Didn't realise there are two types of SAE J30 R9 so I nipped into the garage to take photo of the hose I bought from Advanced Fluid Solutions.
As can be seen, there's no manufacturer's mark and no other mark to to i.d which specific R9 hose it is.
Still, it's R9 so hopefully it'll be better than the perished hoses previously fitted on my Cobra



[Edited on 11/1/12 by andrew.carwithen]

[Edited on 11/1/12 by andrew.carwithen]

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andyfiggy2002

posted on 11/1/12 at 11:16 PM Reply With Quote
great, would you be able to take a photo end on of this blue protective lining that you mentioned as this seems to be the crucial lining that protects the outer rubber from the ethanol?
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MRLuke

posted on 12/1/12 at 12:59 PM Reply With Quote
I have bought this for my fuel hoses:

8mm 5/16' Silicone Fuel & Oil Hose Flouro 1 Metre Blue | eBay

quote:
Fluoro Lined Silicone Hoses ensure hoses can be in contact with Fuel & Oil unlike standard Silicone Hoses. Designed for direct transfer of petrol and oil. Made with a fluorsilicone liner and 3 polyester outer for strength and flexibility. Not for continuous immersion in fuel or oil.


It has an inner fluoro lining but that last little bit is slightly concerning about not being suitable for continuous immersion. I dont if thats just because the outer wall is not fuel or resistant so it cant go inside a fuel tank for instance, or if the pipes should not have fuel inside them continuously.

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andyfiggy2002

posted on 12/1/12 at 01:13 PM Reply With Quote
isnt SAE30 R10 for continuous immersion?
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loggyboy

posted on 12/1/12 at 01:18 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MRLuke
It has an inner fluoro lining but that last little bit is slightly concerning about not being suitable for continuous immersion. I dont if thats just because the outer wall is not fuel or resistant so it cant go inside a fuel tank for instance, or if the pipes should not have fuel inside them continuously.


Its just that they shouldnt be used where fuel would be in constant contact with the outer layer.

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David Jenkins

posted on 12/1/12 at 04:38 PM Reply With Quote
Not all fluoro linings are blue. The stuff I've got is lined, but the lining is black - in a black outer - useful...

R10 is the one for continuous immersion, but there's no harm in using it in the normal way.






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