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Author: Subject: alternators - power and mounting
ravingfool

posted on 25/6/15 at 12:22 PM Reply With Quote
alternators - power and mounting

I've been doing lots of reading about different options for mounting alternators to the blacktop zetec but with everyone's installations being subtly different I'm still left with some questions!

I need to sort out a new mount/potentially new alternator for the car and trying to work out which way to go. I don't have access to fabrication tools so whilst I can see that knocking up a simple bracket myself would be ideal I don't know anyone nearby who could help me out with a spot of welding etc.

I've looked at the kit spares and retro ford kits and I'm worried that even with a properly designed kit I'm going to end up fouling between oil filter and intake (running standard ecu and single TB manifold I think originally put together by someone on here and the bought by pekwah1).

Obviously all of the alternator mount kits are fairly expensive and I really don't want to buy one and not be able to use it. So I'm wondering about a smaller alternator and one of these kits but will a smaller (40A) alternator be sufficient to charge the battery and give me lights without a problem in the evenings?

Alternatively I can see I would gain a lot of space lower on the block by fitting a remote oil filter but again, that seems like an unnecessarily expensive option if I can just fit something appropriate in the existing gap!

(can't fit anything on the exhaust side because of how the engine sits in the bay)

Any thoughts? Modifying electrics is not something I've done prior to getting this kit so I'm learning as I go. I'm fine at modifying anything that doesn't require welding etc I just don't know if 40A will be enough power?

Is anyone out there using the kitspares mounts shown here, and are you using them with the original or a smaller alternator?:
kit spares bottom bracket
kit spares top bracket

cheers

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Andybarbet

posted on 25/6/15 at 12:39 PM Reply With Quote
I am going to try to use the alternator I got from a bedford rascal, it's compact but I do need to make a bracket for it.

The off the shelf brackets seem expensive to me so I'm planning on drawing mine up on autocad so that I can share the drawing if people are interested. At least then they could find a local engineering firm to make it if they don't have the facilities themselves.

As you said, most people do it slightly different and I've not found anything yet that has dimensions etc to allow me to copy.

Good luck - im interested in the reply you get on this one.

[Edited on 25/6/15 by Andybarbet]





Give a man a fish & it will feed him for a day, give him a fishing rod & you've saved a fish.

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coozer

posted on 25/6/15 at 02:11 PM Reply With Quote
Does the standard Ford alternator bracket not fit within your available space?

All depends on your engine bay restrictions and where you have space....

A 40 amp unit should be enough as long as you don't run the lights all the time and don't have any power hungry toys on board.

I ran a redtop 25 bike battery on my zetec without any problems charged by a small Brise alternator.

Your best option is deciding the best place for it taking in available space and belt run. Then I'm sure someone on here can weld up your bracket for you.

Good luck,
Steve





1972 V8 Jago

1980 Z750

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40inches

posted on 25/6/15 at 02:26 PM Reply With Quote
The small alternators are available in 70-80amp versions, a bit bigger than the 40amp, but very small.
Description
Description

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ravingfool

posted on 25/6/15 at 03:22 PM Reply With Quote
I don't even know what the standard ford zetec alternator bracket looks like and I can't seem to find one on ebay. I bought the car built but with a few issues to attend to as it had been registered with a x-flow and then swapped to zetec and some issues obviously crept in at that point.

re-wiring done, bodywork - to follow, engine servicing and gasket replacements being done at the moment (sump has had a nice clean in the kitchen sink and checked for leaks!)

re-mounting the alternator is the only 'major' item I need to do at the moment. (When purchase this was only fitted on a single mount and resting on the oil filter - obviously not good beyond getting the car running!)

It's a simple kit car I have no toys on board but want a reliable electrical system so if 40A is cutting it fine I'd want to spec something slightly better?


I've had another look at the photos I have with me for the inlet side of my engine and I think I see how the kitspares lower mount fits against the block so I'm tempted to order one of those - The cost of that is not the end of the world and having a bottom bracket gives me a fixed position to work out how/what to mount above it.

I'm ok in terms of belt run as I've got suitable idler pulleys already although I'll probably need to get a different size belt to match the new mounting position - no problem. Unless someone tells me that the kitspares mount is complete scrap and not up to the job I'll pick one of those up to get me going and see what I need to match.

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Nitrogeno25

posted on 25/6/15 at 03:40 PM Reply With Quote
I've been running my car (2.0 Duratec with MS2) with a Daihatsu 40A alternator. I did many 2 and 3 hours trips at night without problems. Car always starts fine.

I think with the headlight on, fuel pump, megasquirt, wideband, gauges (with lights), you won't see more than 20A load. Even with the radiator fan running, the voltage do not drop from 14.2-14.4 (same as without load).

Hope it helps.

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cliftyhanger

posted on 25/6/15 at 05:39 PM Reply With Quote
Put this in perspective. Old cars ran 25A alternators. Those were real road cars with lights and heaters and heated rear windows. (that was about it though!) so 40A is plenty (I would have said ample but that would be a terrible pun)

1 55watt headlight draws 5A, so 10A a pair
Sidelights approx 2A tops

Heater (if you have one) maybe 5A
Electric Fan 10A but not used much
Electric Fuel pump 5A?
Wipers no idea, but a guess at under 10A

So max at night with wipers, heater and fan would be 40A, dropping to about 30A when the fan cuts out.

All the above are approximations, but I use a denso 40A on my triumph rally car (lots of night rallies with main beam and a pair of spots, heater and usually wipers all going. Never an issue.

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40inches

posted on 25/6/15 at 06:04 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
Put this in perspective. Old cars ran 25A alternators. Those were real road cars with lights and heaters and heated rear windows. (that was about it though!) so 40A is plenty (I would have said ample but that would be a terrible pun)

1 55watt headlight draws 5A, so 10A a pair
Sidelights approx 2A tops

Heater (if you have one) maybe 5A
Electric Fan 10A but not used much
Electric Fuel pump 5A?
Wipers no idea, but a guess at under 10A

So max at night with wipers, heater and fan would be 40A, dropping to about 30A when the fan cuts out.

All the above are approximations, but I use a denso 40A on my triumph rally car (lots of night rallies with main beam and a pair of spots, heater and usually wipers all going. Never an issue.


A lot of sense there The only reason I opted for a 70amp alternator is because I will be using an Electric Heater, these take around 50amps.

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ravingfool

posted on 25/6/15 at 10:32 PM Reply With Quote
Thanks guys, that really helped me put it in perspective as you say.

I don't know why but electrical systems have just never been something that I've got a knack for. I should be more than capable of working out logically the likely load as suggested but I seem to flounder!

Daft really, I'm a professional with a job and personal penchant for logic but when it comes to cars or diy I'm happier with the manual bits than the electrickery!

Maybe it's lack of practice, these days electrics more or less 'work' in cars and that's it, so you don't spend any time thinking about it.

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cliftyhanger

posted on 26/6/15 at 05:55 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches


A lot of sense there The only reason I opted for a 70amp alternator is because I will be using an Electric Heater, these take around 50amps.


Oh, that is a neat idea! And explains you need.....

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ravingfool

posted on 1/7/15 at 01:32 PM Reply With Quote
Just to keep this updated, I ordered those brackets from kitspares at the weekend and they arrived yesterday.

Look absolutely fine and having offered them up to the block the bottom mount looks like just what I needed and the top mount is a great starting point. If I can squeeze some time in I'm hoping to remove the other bits and pieces which are in the way and go for a trial fitting tonight.

From a quick look last night it's going to be a tight squeeze but if I remove the rear mounting points on the alternator itself I should then have just enough space to both fit the alternator and have room for adjustment, I'm going to need to pick up an appropriate bit of steel to allow that adjustment but that's not difficult.

I'll measure up for a replacement belt and get that ordered tomorrow from my local shop...

With any luck I should have the car put back together (alternator mounted, sump back on, fresh oil filter, fresh oil, proper gaskets/sealant for everything) at the start of the weekend, having only just missed the best weather of the summer this week

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coozer

posted on 1/7/15 at 01:49 PM Reply With Quote
Halfords sell belts, the part number equates to the length.





1972 V8 Jago

1980 Z750

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ravingfool

posted on 5/7/15 at 01:38 PM Reply With Quote
Argh, fyi Halfords (at least my local one) no longer stock alternator drive belts in store and order everything in as and when.

Finished custom fabricating (butchering) a top mount for my alternator yesterday but the old belt was slightly too small in the adjusted position. Popped over to Halfords first thing to find this bad news! I've ordered off of amazon instead with guaranteed delivery for tomorrow so I'll fit after work tomorrow, just in time for the rain...

Better to finish it now though and then I'm ready any time we get some sunshine...

Have just booked the ferry for Thursday evening to pop over to France and catch a couple of stages of the tour de France but apparently we have to go in the saloon and take our bikes rather than the kit :-(

Just thinking about taking the toy car on the ferry - I'm sure others must have done this plenty of times but I can just imagine getting stuck on the ramps... I really need a C spanner and to wind up some extra ground clearance for such events!

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jeffw

posted on 5/7/15 at 02:19 PM Reply With Quote
In my garage I have a Brise alternator, adjustable mounting kit for a Blacktop Zetec and I've probable got the belt to go with it. All came of my car when I went to the supercharger.

This the alternator

http://www.brise.co.uk/Mitsubishi-28001.html

It has the correctly pulley as well.

Let me know if you are interested....






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ravingfool

posted on 5/7/15 at 02:40 PM Reply With Quote
cheers Jeff, I think I'm ok for now, it's not the prettiest setup but it's cost very little.

I'll give it some shakedown miles and see how it goes.

I might come back to you for some more info though if I find my setup isn't giving me enough scope for adjustment which is a distinct possibility with the full size alternator squeezed between the oil filter and a single throttle body intake.

Sitting here thinking about it though I think realistically for more space I'd probably be better off going to a remote oil filter and making my bottom alternator mount adjustable...

Lots of options!

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Hammy360

posted on 16/8/16 at 01:44 PM Reply With Quote
Alt

quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
In my garage I have a Brise alternator, adjustable mounting kit for a Blacktop Zetec and I've probable got the belt to go with it. All came of my car when I went to the supercharger.

This the alternator

http://www.brise.co.uk/Mitsubishi-28001.html

It has the correctly pulley as well.

Let me know if you are interested....


Long shot Jeff but do you still have it up for grabs?





Hammy

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