Printable Version | Subscribe | Add to Favourites
New Topic New Poll New Reply
Author: Subject: Sump below chassis
Johnmor

posted on 15/2/20 at 10:53 PM Reply With Quote
Sump below chassis

Hi all

Just did trial fit of the v8 in the chassis, so far so good

The base of the sump sits around 50 mm below the chasis, how does this compare to others,

My previous viento with the Alfa engine was around 40mm,

Is 50mtoo much??

View User's Profile E-Mail User View All Posts By User U2U Member
Angel Acevedo

posted on 16/2/20 at 02:19 AM Reply With Quote
50 mm is about 40% of my ground clearance.
In my car Not Acceptable.
Aalso, sump clearance may not be the lowest point of your engine/transmission combo.
If close enough to wheel axis it may not be a problem though.

I would not risk it.





Beware of what you wish.. for it may come true....

View User's Profile E-Mail User Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member
Johnmor

posted on 16/2/20 at 07:50 AM Reply With Quote
Thanks for the reply
The sump on the V8 is by far the lowest part of the transmission but its shape means this is about 600mm behind the front wheel axis so I may try to raise it a bit, but it's a tight fit under the bonnet, may need to look at a different carb set up to gain some space.

Think the Weber 500 with manifold could give me another 25mm but it's an expensive way to gain 25mm

View User's Profile E-Mail User View All Posts By User U2U Member
Bladerunner

posted on 16/2/20 at 08:26 AM Reply With Quote
Sump

Is there a kit for your engine that you could get to dry sump it. That way everything stays as is just reduce the depth of the sump.





Adventure before Dementia

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
rusty nuts

posted on 16/2/20 at 08:45 AM Reply With Quote
I believe the Rover V8 used a variety of sumps over the years? Might be possible to get one that isn’t as deep, possibly a P6? Obviously depending on which engine you are using.Might also be able to cut a section out and install baffles and extra capacity?
Rodsnsods have more info

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Johnmor

posted on 16/2/20 at 08:53 AM Reply With Quote
The dry sump option would certainly reduce the depth , although it's more expensive than the Weber 500 option
Also you need to then look at the fly wheel as is 320mm diameter means it's only about 20mm above the sump base,

A smaller fly wheel get real complicated , starter motor etc

In my last viento I ended up with around 120mm ground clearance from the chassis and my sump was closer to the wheel line so didn't cause major issues as long as you were aware of speed bumps etc

I'll look at raising the engine as much as I can without hitting the bonnet, I have plenty of room in the transmission tunnel I'll see how things go


Are most engine fits bringing the sump above the chassis??

View User's Profile E-Mail User View All Posts By User U2U Member
big_wasa

posted on 16/2/20 at 08:55 AM Reply With Quote
With a standard sized car I aim for a max of 25mm.

I have been wondering if the Viento sits higher ?

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Johnmor

posted on 16/2/20 at 10:33 AM Reply With Quote
The viento is wide and can stand a little taller without looking silly

With suspension adjustment and tyre options I can raise and lower the car a bit

I'm looking at 16" wheels with 50 series tyres ( softer ride) giving the rears a large diameter of 632mm , this will raise the chassis a bit although it may affect the spring loading

If I can get the sump to around 25mm below I think it will be ok

The Joy's of building your own car !!

View User's Profile E-Mail User View All Posts By User U2U Member
ian locostzx9rc2

posted on 16/2/20 at 10:37 AM Reply With Quote
Personally in won’t want a sump more than 40mm below chassis rail but it does depend on the chassis height to road min ideally is 100 mm clearance anything below that may cause a few headaches but lots of people run 75mm clearance

[Edited on 16/2/20 by ian locostzx9rc2]

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Angel Acevedo

posted on 16/2/20 at 02:31 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Johnmor
The dry sump option would certainly reduce the depth , although it's more expensive than the Weber 500 option
Also you need to then look at the fly wheel as is 320mm diameter means it's only about 20mm above the sump base,

A smaller fly wheel get real complicated , starter motor etc

In my last viento I ended up with around 120mm ground clearance from the chassis and my sump was closer to the wheel line so didn't cause major issues as long as you were aware of speed bumps etc

I'll look at raising the engine as much as I can without hitting the bonnet, I have plenty of room in the transmission tunnel I'll see how things go


Are most engine fits bringing the sump above the chassis??


I think you´d need to use several actions.
- Modify sump, There´s 20 mm to be gained. Or even 25 mm
I don´t think that´s enough to reduce too much oil capacity.
- Install Skid plate (there you loose clearance but increase protection against bumps.
- Increase Ride Height.

The sum of the three may be enough for the protrusion not to be a problem.
HTH

quote:
Originally posted by ian locostzx9rc2
Personally in won’t want a sump more than 40mm below chassis rail but it does depend on the chassis height to road min ideally is 100 mm clearance anything below that may cause a few headaches but lots of people run 75mm clearance

[Edited on 16/2/20 by ian locostzx9rc2]


+1





Beware of what you wish.. for it may come true....

View User's Profile E-Mail User Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member
CosKev3

posted on 16/2/20 at 06:30 PM Reply With Quote
Modify the sump and oil pick pick up, and add on a wing or wings to the side of sump to increase capacity
View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
steve m

posted on 16/2/20 at 06:40 PM Reply With Quote
Its irrelevant, of how far below the chassis a sump or gearbox or anything else is,
But what is relevant is how much gap between the lowest part is to the ground

My old 7, had 100mm (4" gap between the ground and the gearbox bellhousing, and that used to take chunks out of speed humps if I was traveling a tad to fast

steve





Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at




View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
coyoteboy

posted on 17/2/20 at 12:55 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
Modify the sump and oil pick pick up, and add on a wing or wings to the side of sump to increase capacity


This.





Report your local potholes, it actually works!

View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member
tilly819

posted on 17/2/20 at 03:53 PM Reply With Quote
Mine was 25mm below when I built it...
Put a hole in it one day far from home...
I have a sump guard now...

50mm sounds like trouble assuming you have the standard-ish 100-150mm ground clearance.

Tilly





F20C Haynes roadster 440 BHP/Tonne www.youtube.com/handmadeextreme

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Johnmor

posted on 17/2/20 at 07:17 PM Reply With Quote
Thanks for the responses

I agree 50mm is too much, to compound issues the standard SU carbs are around 30mm too high for the bonnet, so I need to lose around 75-80mm

I have found a pair of stromburg carbs that will release about 30mm, it also appears the range rover sump would give around 10mm

So still 40mm short, could move the engine back around 40mm that may give another 10mm

OR bite the bullet and spend £1000 on Weber 500 and manifold, give around 60mm but 25hp!!

I can see the £££££ mounting up

However I'm in no great hurry so I'll keep working on it and find a solution.

Thanks for the ideas

John

View User's Profile E-Mail User View All Posts By User U2U Member
big_wasa

posted on 17/2/20 at 07:33 PM Reply With Quote
I thought 17”s where the norm on a Viento.

I’ve got 16”s with mine but thought they might be a bit weedy

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Johnmor

posted on 17/2/20 at 07:54 PM Reply With Quote
I had 17" before on my last Viento, but 45 series tyres with the low weight of the car made for a hard ride,

I have a new set of 16" i bought with the kit so ill go for 50 series tyre , diameter is the same so ride height not compromised

I have a set of 20" of my Mercedes GL with 275/50s that would add some ground clearence

View User's Profile E-Mail User View All Posts By User U2U Member
big_wasa

posted on 17/2/20 at 08:03 PM Reply With Quote
Yeh I’ve got 18”s on my Renault and it’s gocart hard.
View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Mr Whippy

posted on 18/2/20 at 12:05 PM Reply With Quote
Personally I would not want the sump to be the lowest part no matter how much it stuck out, its only a matter of time before the inevitable happened.
View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member   Mr+Whippy 's Aim
Johnmor

posted on 19/2/20 at 09:56 AM Reply With Quote
Yeahh the sump is a vunerable part but engine design always puts it at the lowest point (for good reason), large capacity engine are always a challenge although the 45 degree v8 is better than most and shorter than almost any v8-straight 6-v6 etc

My Alfa v6 with fuel injection fitted under the bonnet (just) but the sump was 40mm below

The viento is wide but not that much taller than the Velocity , ill keep finding solutions but will almost certainly have a sump guard as i cant see how im gonna get it above the chassis without a dry sump and thats big money

imsure many on this site have done it so a solution is there, just got to make it work


View User's Profile E-Mail User View All Posts By User U2U Member
JonBowden

posted on 19/2/20 at 01:31 PM Reply With Quote
I know that you have space issues at the top of the engine but how about raising the engine by say 20mm.
To help compensate for this, you might be able to move it back a wee bit (to put it under a higher part of the bonnet.
Then you might be able to make a fuel injection system fit (?) or a big hole for the carb(s).

I used to have a Rover V8 engine with an australian market EFI plenum. This plenum was much lower than the Vitesse one

The standard oil filler is quite high but my Australian one had a lower filler - or it could be machined





Jon

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Johnmor

posted on 19/2/20 at 02:33 PM Reply With Quote
Hi Jon

Yeahh id like to raise the engine but the current SU carb set up is already 30mm to high so I need to reconsider the carbs or possibly FI but i dont want to complicate things too much.

Its a pity cause the SU carbs are pretty good and just been reconditioned (previous owner) they were on the engine when i got it

Its a goldseal reconditioned engine so although 35 years old its only done around 2000 miles.

It maybe a combination of things that provides the space, incuding a shorter sump and differnt carbs etc

ill keep on it

john

View User's Profile E-Mail User View All Posts By User U2U Member
JonBowden

posted on 19/2/20 at 05:54 PM Reply With Quote
Sounds like the opportunity for a big bulge / scoop.

Out of interest, I see from your photos that you had a rather nice looking Alfa engine in your other car.
Why a Rover engine this time?





Jon

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Johnmor

posted on 19/2/20 at 06:38 PM Reply With Quote
Hi Jon

I used an Alfa v6 previously as it was an engine I was familiar with and always loved the sound of the v6, the issue was making a FWD engine fit a RWD car, all the Alfa with rear wheel drive use a different system with the gearbox in the back axle, not suitable for a kit car.

So I had a conversion plate made and engineered a bell housing , mated it to a Ford gearbox, lots of work but was successful

However I bought the recent Viento part built and the engine came with the deal , I have always liked the V8 so I'm going to go with it, in addition, the engineer chap who helped on the last project has retired and moved away so access to engineering machines is now limited

The v8 has less power (about 160hp alfa was 190) but it's great soundtrack and looks tidy under the bonnet, if I can squeeze it in

View User's Profile E-Mail User View All Posts By User U2U Member

New Topic New Poll New Reply


go to top






Website design and SEO by Studio Montage

All content © 2001-16 LocostBuilders. Reproduction prohibited
Opinions expressed in public posts are those of the author and do not necessarily represent
the views of other users or any member of the LocostBuilders team.
Running XMB 1.8 Partagium [© 2002 XMB Group] on Apache under CentOS Linux
Founded, built and operated by ChrisW.