joneh
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| posted on 2/1/21 at 12:51 PM |
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Xflow oil pump
Hi All,
Trying to get some oil pressure before I try a first start on an xflow, however the oil pump doesn't seem to be picking up.
Do I need to prime it first? If so, how?
I've tried the Haynes manual and google to no avail. I took it off and not a drop reached the pump. I assume the pump connects straight to the
sump pipe which is hopefully submerged and not leaking air. Theres nothing inbetween these two is there where air could be entering?
Thanks,
Jon
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steve m
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| posted on 2/1/21 at 01:25 PM |
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On all my xflows, All i ever did was fill the oil filter up, and as much of the oil pump as possible with engine oil, spin the pump over, a few times,
until oil
is pumped out a bit, and put it on the engine quickly, 3 bolts done up, and flick it over on the starter, some times it could take up to 20 seconds
for any indication on the gauge, but mine was a capillary setup, so could of taken a while to reach the gauge
I believe some engines require the pump to filled with vasoline, but ive never done so
Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at
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joneh
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| posted on 2/1/21 at 01:49 PM |
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Ta, I just swapped the pump over with an old one and it seemed to work. Guess my other pump needs looking at... anyway took the filter off the working
one after cranking water poured out  .
A gasket failure somewhere. I think this engine is jinxed.
Do you know if the only culprit can be a head gasket or do others attempt to keep water and oil separate?
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 2/1/21 at 01:49 PM |
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I did the same as Steve - filled it up with oil as much as possible, then fastened it to the block with a gasket in between.
If you're still struggling, have a good look at the mounting face: you should see the top of a round, shiny pressure-relief piston. This should
be fully up, but you should be able to push it down with some non-scratching tool. I was unable to get to my first SVA because this piston had stuck
open and I couldn't maintain any pressure - gave it a push, it clicked back into place, and never gave me any more problems. That cost me a
rebooking fee... 
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steve m
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| posted on 2/1/21 at 01:57 PM |
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The only water - oil separator on a xflow is the head gasket, unless the head is cracked, but ive never seen it on a xflow
As David says, with the pressure relive valve, you can buy an uprated kit that keeps the oil pressure up, but all i did was stick a small washer under
the spring, and did the same thing
Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at
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joneh
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| posted on 2/1/21 at 03:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by steve m
The only water - oil separator on a xflow is the head gasket, unless the head is cracked, but ive never seen it on a xflow
As David says, with the pressure relive valve, you can buy an uprated kit that keeps the oil pressure up, but all i did was stick a small washer under
the spring, and did the same thing
Yup, as above.
Total head gasket failure, probably on my part. Looks like a Payen BJ200 gasket that I got from Burtons (90% confident...). Looking closely at it, it
has steel rings that seem thicker than the material part, so as far as I can see without any extra sealant it would never properly seal. As I took
the exhaust manifold off I could see water weeping over the engine number plate.
So, which head gasket do you lot recommend and do you paste on extra sealant?
Thanks,
Jon
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joneh
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| posted on 2/1/21 at 03:26 PM |
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Also, I just noticed that the gasket blocks some of the waterways completely up, the triangle shaped one in the center of the head.
Checked my order and I did get it from Burtons, however the same part number now points to a Reinz (FP287) part.
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steve m
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| posted on 2/1/21 at 03:57 PM |
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Burtons have a good range of head gaskets, mine were around the £25 mark, and i never had a problem, i do not own any of my car or paperwork now, si
One side from memory does cover the water away, but again from memory i had used gaskets that had a very small hole in the gasket were you would
expect it to be triangle cut out
I have never used any sealant on a xflow head, just a light oiling with engine oil
steve
Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 2/1/21 at 04:26 PM |
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X flow heads can and do crack , one of my spare heads is cracked across the water ways between cylinders 2 and 3
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joneh
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| posted on 2/1/21 at 04:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
X flow heads can and do crack , one of my spare heads is cracked across the water ways between cylinders 2 and 3
Will give it a close inspection but I think it's just that I bought the cheapest gasket in 2016. Water was weeping out from between the head
and block and looking at the gasket material, I can't see how such a thin shiny gasket, with steel in it can make a flat surface seal.
Maybe my torques weren't right on the head as I googled the gasket it seems to be a common gasket.
[Edited on 2/1/21 by joneh]
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02GF74
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| posted on 2/1/21 at 06:10 PM |
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With rover v8 the trick was to pack the oil pump cavity with vaseline, which dissolves in the oil. I did the same with my crossflow.
With RV8, the oil pump can be turned over by rotating the distributor drive, requires a special tool, basically a tube with a a tab or slot depending
on the age of the engine. I used a cordless drill to spin it and you can feel resistance when the pump is primed.
You can't do that on crossflow, remove the spark plugs and spin engine for 30 seconds, have the rocker cover off so you can see oil coming out
the rockers.
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 2/1/21 at 06:42 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by joneh
quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
X flow heads can and do crack , one of my spare heads is cracked across the water ways between cylinders 2 and 3
Will give it a close inspection but I think it's just that I bought the cheapest gasket in 2016. Water was weeping out from between the head
and block and looking at the gasket material, I can't see how such a thin shiny gasket, with steel in it can make a flat surface seal.
Maybe my torques weren't right on the head as I googled the gasket it seems to be a common gasket.
[Edited on 2/1/21 by joneh]
Head gasket failure on the Xflow happened although it wasn’t a bad problem . As for the gasket covering waterways that is common . Did you make a
habit of running the engine before you sorted the cooling system properly? I only ever cleaned the top of the block using a flat piece of wood and a
sheet of Emery paper, normally cleaned the head the same way unless it was warped in which case it needs skimming. Cracks are normally obvious.
Headbolt torque , I normally retorque after about 500 miles at the same time check and adjust the valve clearances, it’s possible to retorque the head
bolts without removing the rocker gear . If the head is cracked across the waterways it is repairable
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joneh
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| posted on 2/1/21 at 06:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
quote:
Originally posted by joneh
quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
X flow heads can and do crack , one of my spare heads is cracked across the water ways between cylinders 2 and 3
Will give it a close inspection but I think it's just that I bought the cheapest gasket in 2016. Water was weeping out from between the head
and block and looking at the gasket material, I can't see how such a thin shiny gasket, with steel in it can make a flat surface seal.
Maybe my torques weren't right on the head as I googled the gasket it seems to be a common gasket.
[Edited on 2/1/21 by joneh]
Head gasket failure on the Xflow happened although it wasn’t a bad problem . As for the gasket covering waterways that is common . Did you make a
habit of running the engine before you sorted the cooling system properly? I only ever cleaned the top of the block using a flat piece of wood and a
sheet of Emery paper, normally cleaned the head the same way unless it was warped in which case it needs skimming. Cracks are normally obvious.
Headbolt torque , I normally retorque after about 500 miles at the same time check and adjust the valve clearances, it’s possible to retorque the head
bolts without removing the rocker gear . If the head is cracked across the waterways it is repairable
This was the pre first start attempt, just checking for oil pressure and spark. It's been completely rebuilt. I wanted to double check
everything before I started. Luckily the oil pump failed else I probably wouldn't have noticed the leak.
Still puzzled how it leaked so much unless I genuinely had a duff gasket. Worried that my torque wrench is out.
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steve m
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| posted on 2/1/21 at 08:12 PM |
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This isnt really possible now, as the engine is built and i presume in the engine bay, but on any engine i built, i would use an oil stone across the
piston deck, a good few times, with engine oil as a lube, this will show if the block has any damage, and take off any high spots
I also would do the head, once before lapping the valves, and a good few times after, as the valves protrude from the head on a xflow, unless you have
the old low compression bowled head, which is as much use as a chocolate fire guard
At the very worst, i would run a stanley blade across both mating surfaces, to check that there wasnt anything stopping a good mating finish
steve
Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at
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steve m
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| posted on 2/1/21 at 08:13 PM |
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Also, Joneh
Dont forget, that if you have oil in the water, you will also have water in the oil !!
steve
Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at
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joneh
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| posted on 2/1/21 at 08:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by steve m
Also, Joneh
Dont forget, that if you have oil in the water, you will also have water in the oil !!
steve
I used a Stanley blade and cleaned both surfaces before assembly and made sure they were spot less. I've also used a steel rule and torch to
check for high or low spots and no light gets through.
It's either the budget gasket or I royally ballsed up my torque settings.
I've drained both fluids and even caught most of it in a tub!
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 2/1/21 at 08:41 PM |
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You haven’t put a bolt in the wrong place anywhere breaking the waterway?Ive seen damaged blocks previously,admittedly not Xflow It might be worth
filling the cooling system with water with the head off and monitoring the level possibly with the sump plug out , any leaks into the sump would be
obvious .
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joneh
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| posted on 2/1/21 at 08:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
You haven’t put a bolt in the wrong place anywhere breaking the waterway?Ive seen damaged blocks previously,admittedly not Xflow It might be worth
filling the cooling system with water with the head off and monitoring the level possibly with the sump plug out , any leaks into the sump would be
obvious .
Nope, the block is still full and holding water. I only drained the water down to the top of the pump (to the top of the union you sent me) so I could
get the head off.
I'll order a new gasket and borrow a torque wrench to check mine.
EDIT: So a little Googling shows a 5 stage process to tightening the head bolts. My Haynes manual says finger tight them, then whack them all down to
the specified torque in the correct order.
I don't recall re-torqing them after 20 minutes, so I think this is all user error. 
[Edited on 2/1/21 by joneh]
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 2/1/21 at 09:24 PM |
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I have a Snap On tool I brought best part of 50 years ago that fits the head bolts without taking off the valve gear but you might find a 3/8” drive
extension and a shortened 5/8” AF socket will do the job?. Always retorque the bolts after the engine had reached temperature but adjusted the tappers
when cold . Repeat after 500 miles
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steve m
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| posted on 2/1/21 at 11:07 PM |
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Ive always torqued to the haynes manuel figures, and never had an issue
Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at
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joneh
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| posted on 2/1/21 at 11:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by steve m
Ive always torqued to the haynes manuel figures, and never had an issue
I hope my torque wrench is accurate if that's the case. If not, I'll need to strip the engine right down.
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wonderfulweasel
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| posted on 3/1/21 at 07:57 AM |
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Which Haynes are you using Joneh?
I’ve always followed the torquing sequence in the purple one by Wallage. It’s specifically for the crossflow, so may have provide more detail than one
for a car with a crossflow engine.
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joneh
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| posted on 3/1/21 at 12:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by wonderfulweasel
Which Haynes are you using Joneh?
I’ve always followed the torquing sequence in the purple one by Wallage. It’s specifically for the crossflow, so may have provide more detail than one
for a car with a crossflow engine.
Standard Escort 75 to 80. It says torque to 66-71 lbf ft. No idea if the engine is from an Escort though...
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 3/1/21 at 01:15 PM |
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Before you torqued the head down did you clean the threads in the block? It might be worth putting a very small countersink on the bolt holes . 70lb
ft sound right Double check the head bolts aren’t bottoming out , unlikely but worth checking
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joneh
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| posted on 3/1/21 at 01:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
Before you torqued the head down did you clean the threads in the block? It might be worth putting a very small countersink on the bolt holes . 70lb
ft sound right Double check the head bolts aren’t bottoming out , unlikely but worth checking
Good call, will do.
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