Knowing me and my history of cars I'm sure this is going to get complicated.
I've committed to buying a car - it's a striker. but the v5 says duttonkit. the car is on a q plate. I'm not sure on the background
but the mot checker on line says it's a 1600 (it was a crossflow I think) - the actual engine in the car at the moment is a 1.4k series.
It's had MOT's (in it's current guise) over the last 4 years (nothing in the last 18 months however as the owner hasn't been well,
hence the sale to me in fact).
He tried to change the engine size (wrote to the DVLA) but they refused to acknowledge this as they felt he was trying to go down a level on the car
tax?
So - my questions are these.
Do I need to re-iva the car, once in my possession or should I just leave it and carry on?
Will there be implications for insurance for example?
I'm not going to be driving it on the road til these issues are sorted of course. I'm going to do a trackday in Oct and see how it goes.
Thanks
Its a ringer - if you can walk away.
If not then yes it will require IVA and re-regestering.
if it,s not as described on the V5 then it is a ringer, i cant see why you cant walk away
quote:
Originally posted by theconrodkid
if it,s not as described on the V5 then it is a ringer, i cant see why you cant walk away
As said it's a ringer walk away or if it's very cheap Iva it .
Basically a ringed car, don't buy it. Funnily enough one of my old Strikers turned into a TR Race car overnight and was sold by a garage without being spotted. C7 ALP if anyone ever comes across it
Trouble is I believe the story. I don't get the impression there's anything untoward.
At the price it's v good value.
Its been v well put together imo.
I'm not going to get another chance to buy something like this at the price imo.
What will I need to do to IVA it and re-register it?
Might be a true story, but it's still registered incorrectly and you'll have to fix at least that.
Don't kid yourself into buying it. If you do, factor £1000 in for IVA and the trouble.
quote:
What will I need to do to IVA it and re-register it?
quote:
Originally posted by Oi_Oi_Savaloy
Trouble is I believe the story. I don't get the impression there's anything untoward.
At the price it's v good value.
Its been v well put together imo.
I'm not going to get another chance to buy something like this at the price imo.
What will I need to do to IVA it and re-register it?
Treat as an unfinished project and the price may not be as good as you think.
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
A striker was built, someone purchased a dutton (or the remnants of one, possibly just the V5!), put the number plate and VIN on the the Striker chassis.
[Edited on 11-9-17 by loggyboy]
The Dutton club look on these sites and report them to the DVla and then you get a letter the cosy if an iva is nothing compared to the cost of getting the car ready for the iva
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
A striker was built, someone purchased a dutton (or the remnants of one, possibly just the V5!), put the number plate and VIN on the the Striker chassis.
[Edited on 11-9-17 by loggyboy]
But it's on a Q plate? Why would anyone buy a dutton V5 to Q plate it, why not just register it from scratch?
Been there and done that.
Years ago I bought a locost based ron champion dutton special, at the time I had no knowledge of kit cars, a year later and probably thick end of 6k
less in my pocket I then became a little more knowledgeable on kit cars and realized I had a ringer. I'd even managed to get an agreed value for
insurance purposes by supplying pictures of the car! I couldn't live with the fact I was driving a ringer and so I striped it down and sold all
the parts, I still have the dutton v5 and have no idea how I would get dvla to just scrap it, i suspect they wouldn't so I'm more than
likely stuck with it. I now have a fully road legal haynes roadster and my conscience is clear.
Your initial question about having to 're-IVA' the car, had me smiling. The car, has of course, never been IVA'd (the Striker I mean)
unless it once was and then it's IVA'd identity given to another Striker (or something else). If the Striker has never been IVA'd, it
may have not been built with the IVA in mind, so the hassle and cost getting it compliant may well be considerable.
You'd probably be disassembling the car entirely, rebuilding, photographing, logging, etc... well, I would.
Any insurance 'policy' you obtain for a Striker, under the guise of a Dutton, won't be usable if anything happens. Same if you bought a
Westfield registered as a 'Ford Convertible' or an MK Indy as a Rickman Sports.
Keep it on the track, or IVA it for the road. Alternatively walk away.
You asked for advice on Pistonheads on 8th Sept, the first line of the first reply was this......
"Check the log book says Sylva or raw striker on it and not escort/Sierra/dutton/robinhood etc. It should describe the car. If not walk
away"
That wasn't me but it was very sound advice, and still is.
As others have said it's a ringer. So it is not legal. It is not a good idea to buy it.
If you are going to buy it (foolish move) it will need an IVA - but bear in mind that to get a registration you need to show it is "amateur
built" and that means showing evidence of how you built it.
So how will you do that?
Walk away. Do not buy. It is not a bargain!
[Edited on 11/9/17 by kingster996]
He had a folder of pictures, talked me through the build, showed me some of the work and thought that has gone into the car.
I'm really upset. I've not parted company with any money yet. He's moting it and then I'm away so it was October before I'd
be able to pick it up. I've been driving it in my head however (if that makes any sense).
I feel he's an honourable man; you know when someone is on the level within 5 secs of meeting them. I'm going to go back to him and ask some
harder questions.
And you're right. I can't insure it etc when it's a Ford and I'm saying it's a beemer. Just not going to work. At the price
I'm paying however it might still be a worthy track day car (but I want to use more often than 4 times a year).
Damn, damn, damn and three times damn! Oh wait.
quote:
Originally posted by Oi_Oi_Savaloy
I feel he's an honourable man; you know when someone is on the level within 5 secs of meeting them. I'm going to go back to him and ask some harder questions.
It sounds like we are being tough, but I can't imagine a single legal scenario where a Striker ends up registered as a Dutton
He needs to explain how this happened
As a Striker owner (pre IVA) I can imagine them being hard to get through an IVA without being built with the test in mind
May I ask the ball park price?
I have had over 20 different kit cars and would not touch anything that's not correctly registered- life's too short and anything to do with
DVLA / VOSA is long winded and troublesome. The dodgey car registered with Dutton documents has been a standing joke for many years to the extent that
all Duttons were being dragged down in value and opinion until a few years ago when they decided to tackle the issue head on. There's a bloke
called Adrian who is on here and he has worked extremely hard to clean up the mess with the help of other enthusiasts so that they can continue to
enjoy their legal Dutton Duttons so maybe mentioning that to the vendor might push price to the point where the parts exceed the value of the car at
which point you can rebuild/ break without it costing too much ultimately
Hth
Mike
.
quote:
Originally posted by fishywick
You asked for advice on Pistonheads on 8th Sept, the first line of the first reply was this......
"Check the log book says Sylva or raw striker on it and not escort/Sierra/dutton/robinhood etc. It should describe the car. If not walk away"
That wasn't me but it was very sound advice, and still is.
It really does not matter how honest or honourable the seller is, the car is a ringer. Full stop. End of.
Chances are that sooner or later the DVLA or VOSA will get wind of it and you're screwed. Or you have an accident and you're screwed.
Therefore in order to work out if you should buy it, you need to ascertain if the value of the components (less the time taken to strip and sell) are
worth the asking price. Or alternatively if the added cost and potentially huge amount of hassle to get it IVA'd is worth the asking price.
The reality is that there are probsnly loads of legit kit cars out there for sale at this time of year that will end up costing you less in time and
money.
quote:
Originally posted by fishywick
You asked for advice on Pistonheads on 8th Sept, the first line of the first reply was this......
"Check the log book says Sylva or raw striker on it and not escort/Sierra/dutton/robinhood etc. It should describe the car. If not walk away"
That wasn't me but it was very sound advice, and still is.
Sorry I don't understand. Why now or never?
Buy a ringer now and you'll regret it.
If you think you will be buying a huge bargain, remember it will be an illegal one. So will possibly end up costing you.
Posting pics might help but reality is that unless it has some really nice components then 1.4 k series striker isn't really going to be worth
that much let alone one that is not correctly registered. So unless it's under £2k and you have another £1500 to £2k to spend, then you are on a
road to nowhere in my opinion.
Listen carefully to the advice you have asked for and been given
quote:
Originally posted by Oi_Oi_Savaloy
[I thought there would be a way to rectify it without having to take every panel off and rebuild the entire car to demonstrate I'd built it.
quote:
Originally posted by kingster996
It really does not matter how honest or honourable the seller is, the car is a ringer. Full stop. End of.
Chances are that sooner or later the DVLA or VOSA will get wind of it and you're screwed. Or you have an accident and you're screwed.
Therefore in order to work out if you should buy it, you need to ascertain if the value of the components (less the time taken to strip and sell) are worth the asking price. Or alternatively if the added cost and potentially huge amount of hassle to get it IVA'd is worth the asking price.
The reality is that there are probsnly loads of legit kit cars out there for sale at this time of year that will end up costing you less in time and money.
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by Oi_Oi_Savaloy
[I thought there would be a way to rectify it without having to take every panel off and rebuild the entire car to demonstrate I'd built it.
You dont have to prove you built it. You could drive it from purchase to IVA and theres a small chance it would pass first time. Chances are there some things that need work. Most likely emissions, interior/exterior projections.
Read most of the thread and the car simply screams "ringer" to me - stay away!
It may or may not have been the seller that put the car in that state, but whatever the "story" it'll cost you £1k+ to put it right
(IVA, registration etc.).
Whilst I'm a lover of cars, including kit cars, they should be tested and registered correctly or it WILL bite you on the backside. For example
if the insurer has any suspicion the car is different from what they been asked to insure they may well refute the policy and not pay out o you or
another party. To me that situation just doesn't bear thinking about. Monies in insurance claims can get out of hand very quickly 
The problem you will have is when you have bought it and apply for the logbook it will be refused, it's almost certainly flagged at the DVLA
especially if they refused the engine change.
Nothing about this suggests to me the guy selling it is honourable, just good enough talker to convince you. But once you have bought it its your
problem.
Correctly IVA'ing and registering a kit built car legitimises it so anyone not doing so is running an illegitimate car and the risk of
invalidated insurance etc etc etc.
If you were buying an unfinished & unregistered kit would you still buy it for the money? 'cos that's what you would be buying.
IMO this is not the time to let your head rule your heart but we have all been there - just be clear on what you are getting into. The fact it is
illegally registered should be your cue to really beat him down on price even more. This should be really dirt cheap not because you have to IVA it
but because he's selling you an illegal car!
quote:
Originally posted by Oi_Oi_Savaloy
Just trying to find a way to stand by my word (I've given him my word etc etc). Incidentally it's fine on emissions (I realise that's incidental and there are far more serious things potentially but at least that's something).
Just remember everyone here would love to see another kit back on the road - just not a ringer...
paying good money for ringers just helps ignorant / unscrupulous builders to build more ringers
going forward - what is your rough budget ? maybe we can collectively point you towards a better car 
One other point, if you need more, if you get stopped by the police and they decide it's a ringer it's crushed so you will have nothing to show for your spend, you may also get done for other things like no insurance, invalid mot to mention a couple. I would not take the risk unless it was well under £1k.
Hi
I've got a Striker and they certainly can be got through the test.
My suggestion is to think about this a bit differently - and if you proceed to buy it, do that a bit differently too..
My striker was SVA tested and is/was road legal - I say the latter as for the last few years it's been SORN'ed and we've only used it
for events/track days - it's not seen a road..
You could treat this car the same?
If the car is worth it's price - without the number plates and registration documents - and you get a nice track day / competition car out of it
then Buy It - but buy it without the number plates and documents, leave them with him - they're his problem and you don't want or need them
IMHO.
If it's not worth the Current price as a pure track / competition car, then re-negotiate the price with him until it is
HTH
quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
A striker was built, someone purchased a dutton (or the remnants of one, possibly just the V5!), put the number plate and VIN on the the Striker chassis.
[Edited on 11-9-17 by loggyboy]
But it's on a Q plate? Why would anyone buy a dutton V5 to Q plate it, why not just register it from scratch?
because it bypasses the cost and effort of passing an IVA. It may look well put together, but if it was built in the knowledge it wasn't going to pass anything more than an MOT, I would hazard a guess a great deal of time/effort and probably cash will be needed.
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
A striker was built, someone purchased a dutton (or the remnants of one, possibly just the V5!), put the number plate and VIN on the the Striker chassis.
[Edited on 11-9-17 by loggyboy]
But it's on a Q plate? Why would anyone buy a dutton V5 to Q plate it, why not just register it from scratch?
because it bypasses the cost and effort of passing an IVA. It may look well put together, but if it was built in the knowledge it wasn't going to pass anything more than an MOT, I would hazard a guess a great deal of time/effort and probably cash will be needed.
But it wouldn't get a Q if it was using a dutton reg. It would get the dutton reg?
It looks like you have made your mind up but unless it is £2k I would not bother. Decent legal striker is no more than £6K in the winter and I am sure one will come up by xmas.
quote:
Originally posted by SJ
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
A striker was built, someone purchased a dutton (or the remnants of one, possibly just the V5!), put the number plate and VIN on the the Striker chassis.
[Edited on 11-9-17 by loggyboy]
But it's on a Q plate? Why would anyone buy a dutton V5 to Q plate it, why not just register it from scratch?
because it bypasses the cost and effort of passing an IVA. It may look well put together, but if it was built in the knowledge it wasn't going to pass anything more than an MOT, I would hazard a guess a great deal of time/effort and probably cash will be needed.
But it wouldn't get a Q if it was using a dutton reg. It would get the dutton reg?
Doesn't that just mean the Dutton was on a Q reg?
At the end of the day, it's your money and your call.
But every single person on here is pretty much saying "walk away" - or at the very least treat it as an unregistered track car of
exceedingly dubious parentage!
What you need to ask is WHY?
Why would someone build a 'well put together' car with 'lots of build photos' etc and then not register it correctly?
Money? Well, the IVA and reg will cost you around £500 assuming you have built it to pass (potentially a lot more if you haven't) -
so how much did a Dutton V5 cost in comparison? Bearing in mind that the car would always be worth way more as a legal one, it must have needed more
spending on it to pass than just the fee to justify the cost of a dead Dutton - so what's wrong with it?
Time? It's much quicker and easier to stamp up a chassis than it is to IVA and then deal with the DVLA - so maybe the builder had some
reason to want to be on the road that was worth losing money for - can't think of one mind?
Theft? Maybe the Sylva was stolen and then the Dutton identity grafted on to sell it on - certainly one reason to remove a legit Sylva chassis
number and replace it with another before punting it out to an uneducated buyer.
Accident Damage Maybe the car has been a write off and to disguise the fact that it had serious damage a new identity was grafted on?
The other issue here is that the Striker is well known as a really sweet handling track car - so I'm sure plenty of buyers would want a decent
one - BUT now that it has had the original Sylva chassis numbers ground off and replaced with dodgy Dutton ones, it is potentially longer going
to be seen a "real" Sylva by those in the know - in fact who knows what chassis is under there and who welded it up for that matter. Then
even if you choose to IVA it - can you prove it's a Sylva to the next buyer without a 'proper' chassis number as evidence?
Whatever happens, this car will always be worth way less than a genuine Striker - so once again, unless it is for buttons (relatively speaking) and
you actually want all the hassle, don't buy it.
quote:
Originally posted by The Knobs
Decent legal striker is no more than £6K in the winter and I am sure one will come up by xmas.
If he was to go down the project >IVA route. How would he stand on not having receipts for the components. Or is this
just a requirement to get new/age related registration?
quote:
Originally posted by Oi_Oi_SavaloyHe tried to change the engine size (wrote to the DVLA) but they refused to acknowledge this as they felt he was trying to go down a level on the car tax?
The dvla can be awkward on changing the engine size. I tried to to change mine and they wouldn't believe me even though I was increasing the engine size.
quote:
Originally posted by SJ
The dvla can be awkward on changing the engine size. I tried to to change mine and they wouldn't believe me even though I was increasing the engine size.
quote:
uote:
Originally posted by SJ
The dvla can be awkward on changing the engine size. I tried to to change mine and they wouldn't believe me even though I was increasing the engine size.
They will insist on the right info being provided but they can't "refuse to acknowledge".
quote:
Originally posted by Toys2
If he was to go down the project >IVA route. How would he stand on not having receipts for the components. Or is this
just a requirement to get new/age related registration?
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by Toys2
If he was to go down the project >IVA route. How would he stand on not having receipts for the components. Or is this
just a requirement to get new/age related registration?
Part source is not relevant for IVA (only engine age for emissions)
For DVLa registration, where you dont have 2 major donor parts, or receipts for all new major components, you will get a Q.
quote:
Originally posted by SJ
quote:
uote:
Originally posted by SJ
The dvla can be awkward on changing the engine size. I tried to to change mine and they wouldn't believe me even though I was increasing the engine size.
They will insist on the right info being provided but they can't "refuse to acknowledge".
In my case it was nothing to do with information. It was evidence they wanted in the form of an engineers report. If by 'refuse to acknowledge' you mean make no changes despite being informed, then that is exactly what they did.
This is the DVLA we are talking about.
[Edited on 14/9/17 by SJ]
[Edited on 14/9/17 by SJ]
quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
A striker was built, someone purchased a dutton (or the remnants of one, possibly just the V5!), put the number plate and VIN on the the Striker chassis.
[Edited on 11-9-17 by loggyboy]
But it's on a Q plate? Why would anyone buy a dutton V5 to Q plate it, why not just register it from scratch?
because it bypasses the cost and effort of passing an IVA. It may look well put together, but if it was built in the knowledge it wasn't going to pass anything more than an MOT, I would hazard a guess a great deal of time/effort and probably cash will be needed.
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by SJ
quote:
uote:
Originally posted by SJ
The dvla can be awkward on changing the engine size. I tried to to change mine and they wouldn't believe me even though I was increasing the engine size.
They will insist on the right info being provided but they can't "refuse to acknowledge".
In my case it was nothing to do with information. It was evidence they wanted in the form of an engineers report. If by 'refuse to acknowledge' you mean make no changes despite being informed, then that is exactly what they did.
This is the DVLA we are talking about.
[Edited on 14/9/17 by SJ]
[Edited on 14/9/17 by SJ]
By right info, I mean evidence as per their published requirements
By DVLA ineptitude, I provided a receipt, they asked for engineers report, I said no and quoted this page, they sent me a new V5 with new engine details.
Change of engine number or cylinder capacity (cc)
You need to provide either:
a receipt for the replacement engine
written evidence from the manufacturer
an inspection report provided for insurance purposes
written confirmation on headed paper from a garage (if the change took place before you bought the vehicle)
[Edited on 14/9/17 by scimjim]
Just a short update. I'm going to buy the car. Whether I can get a discount on the price agreed remains moot. Nevetherless; I'm buying
the car.
It's going to come with an MOT so I know it's roadworthy. I'm going to do a trackday (99% certain it'll be at Pembrey on 1st
October) and then I'm going to take it up to Anglesey where my mechanic (and some students from a local engineering college) are going to take
the car apart in order for all of us to understand what it's going to take to get it through the IVA. When I raced in Stockhatch Rallycross -
briefly in a Rover Metro 1.4k series in 2003-2007, I was able to do a deal with this local college whereby they looked after the car and prepared it
and I paid for anything that needed replacing/improving/upgrading. Some of the passionate students also became my crew on racing weekends.
It might take a year. Might take 3 months. Might take 2 years but whatever - it's not going on the road until it has it's own correct
identity and is IVA'd.
Not sure how to retire the current id it'll come with (SORN for eternity? Can I get a car dismantler to 'scrap it' for me? is there a
legitimate way of doing that?) Really not sure of the legalities on that one.
All I know is is that I can't insure it for the road (or for trackdays) under it's current guise. But I don't want any other Striker -
I want this one. I realise 'I want' never gets and it sounds v childish when I write it down but for alot of reasons I've now decided
that this car needs to have it's own identity, in my ownership and it's my money (and other people's hard work in the team) that's
going to get her back on the road in her own right. So that's that.
I realise this could be an extremely fraught process and ultimately I might lose alot of money - and still end up with just a trackday car (I'm
not selling the car on with the wrong ID). So be it.
I gather that the nearest IVA to Anglesey is in Birmingham for example (not had time to look this up so might be wrong) - so that's a significant
cost (in time and money) alone. And if it fails.....we'll have to go back again.....so this one is definitely one that's going to take
time.
I'll have the previous chap's build diary, I'll have our build diary - we'll replace the bits that don't meet the IVA process
as we go through the car and take it from there. I've budgeted another £1,500 or so to get it through (it'll be on the drip rather than all
upfront so manageable) and there aren't any labour costs which fundamentally changes things. the students might use the car and it's IVA as
a final year project - it's a little more interesting than a 10 year old Ford Focus etc etc. But that's not confirmed and there's no
pressure from me to get it into the college or anything.
I realise some of you are going to be disappointed/incredulous, despite the excellent advice received here, but I just feel like this car needs to be
brought back into the fold and loved, in it's own right. And I need to do right by the Dutton owner's and their club too to help them keep
incorrect Dutton's off the DVLA register.
Well I for one am amazed - this could all end in tears with the car in the crusher!! 
It's your money however after all - and I think many will realise that no matter what was said here that you were going to buy it.
So you have decided to buy it, lets see it then as no one else wants its lets see what all the fuss is about.
Oh dear, after 6 pages of reasons not to, from people who know IVA and DVLA process and risks, and have 1st hand experience of building cars.
Sounds very much like an Andy Pipkin - ' I want that one'
Hope it doesnt turn into his other common phrase 'I dont like it'
Credit where credit is due, this chap is going to take a ringer off the road, and get it sorted. As long as the price is right for him then there is
no issues.
Not like hes sticking his hands over his ears, shouting LAA LAA LAA, and just buying it and sticking yt on road regardless.
Hes making an informed decision so there are no problems.
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Credit where credit is due, this chap is going to take a ringer off the road, and get it sorted. As long as the price is right for him then there is no issues.
Not like hes sticking his hands over his ears, shouting LAA LAA LAA, and just buying it and sticking yt on road regardless.
Hes making an informed decision so there are no problems.
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
A striker was built, someone purchased a dutton (or the remnants of one, possibly just the V5!), put the number plate and VIN on the the Striker chassis.
[Edited on 11-9-17 by loggyboy]
But it's on a Q plate? Why would anyone buy a dutton V5 to Q plate it, why not just register it from scratch?
because it bypasses the cost and effort of passing an IVA. It may look well put together, but if it was built in the knowledge it wasn't going to pass anything more than an MOT, I would hazard a guess a great deal of time/effort and probably cash will be needed.
No I mean I'm under the impression you can't register it as a Dutton if it's going be a Q plate. Can you?
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
A striker was built, someone purchased a dutton (or the remnants of one, possibly just the V5!), put the number plate and VIN on the the Striker chassis.
[Edited on 11-9-17 by loggyboy]
But it's on a Q plate? Why would anyone buy a dutton V5 to Q plate it, why not just register it from scratch?
because it bypasses the cost and effort of passing an IVA. It may look well put together, but if it was built in the knowledge it wasn't going to pass anything more than an MOT, I would hazard a guess a great deal of time/effort and probably cash will be needed.
No I mean I'm under the impression you can't register it as a Dutton if it's going be a Q plate. Can you?
I'm confused by your question! It's very simple, almost all Duttons will have a Q plate since they were mostly made in an era prior to the SVA when a Q plate was allocated to kit cars, the 'Q' indicating the car was of indefinite origin. The only exception would be Duttons that illegally retained the donor registration - the DVLA had an amnesty prior to the SVA to get these cars correctly registered.
The whole point of the ringing exercise is to (illegally) avoid the work and expense of an SVA/IVA, so people buy a cheap Dutton and simply use it's VIN/Plates/V5. You'd obviously want to buy a Dutton on a Q plate for this purpose, since if it still had it's original donor reg it would be useless to you.
quote:
Originally posted by Paul_Arion
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Credit where credit is due, this chap is going to take a ringer off the road, and get it sorted. As long as the price is right for him then there is no issues.
Not like hes sticking his hands over his ears, shouting LAA LAA LAA, and just buying it and sticking yt on road regardless.
Hes making an informed decision so there are no problems.
I think the concern that many will have is that if he finds there is no legal way to put it back on the road (other than a new chassis from Raw and build it up from scratch with an IVA and then officially scrapping the Dutton) then it may just end up back on the road as a ringer "Dutton".
AFAIK - you cant simply give the chassis a new number and it'd be interesting to see what DVLA make of any attempts to register it - IVA or not. Anyone any experience of turning a "ringer" into a legal car??
quote:
Originally posted by Paul_Arion
I think the concern that many will have is that if he finds there is no legal way to put it back on the road (other than a new chassis from Raw and build it up from scratch with an IVA and then officially scrapping the Dutton) then it may just end up back on the road as a ringer "Dutton".
AFAIK - you cant simply give the chassis a new number and it'd be interesting to see what DVLA make of any attempts to register it - IVA or not. Anyone any experience of turning a "ringer" into a legal car??
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by Paul_Arion
I think the concern that many will have is that if he finds there is no legal way to put it back on the road (other than a new chassis from Raw and build it up from scratch with an IVA and then officially scrapping the Dutton) then it may just end up back on the road as a ringer "Dutton".
AFAIK - you cant simply give the chassis a new number and it'd be interesting to see what DVLA make of any attempts to register it - IVA or not. Anyone any experience of turning a "ringer" into a legal car??
Thats exactly what you can do - A new VIN on an old chassis is not ringing, ringing is swapping one to another.
Providing he is happy to get the car to an IVA standard he will have no issues regsistering as a 'new' Q plate.
Strikers (or older ones anyway) I don't think came with any numbers on the chassis - or certainly mine didn't the 'Chassis number'
was whatever one made up, stamped into a 'chassis plate' off ebay or a Chassis Rail.
I've read the OP's last post and can't see anything wrong with what he's planning - discard the original dodgy I.D. and start
again - perfect gets the car back on the road and track correctly - which is all any enthusiast can want.
quote:
Originally posted by kingster996
Putting a new VIN on and IVA-ing sounds right - but it won't then be allowed to be called a "Sylva Striker" will it?
Surely you can't just grind numbers off, stamp on DVLA ones and then call it anything - otherwise every (dodgy) man and his dog would call their home built Locost a "Caterham" when they applied to the DVLA so they could try and sell on to some unsuspecting punter.
At least this chap sought advice and considered it all before buying and went in eyes open (hopefully with a hefty price drop) rather than paying over the odds for a stinky ringer and finding that out later.
If he SORNs the ringer forever will it matter that he has a car that technically doesn't exist attached to his name? Will this cause some
unknown problems later on.
I IVA'd a car that was built for SVA. It essentially sat in a garage for 11 years and I had no trouble getting it through.
quote:
Originally posted by JimSpencer
Strikers (or older ones anyway) I don't think came with any numbers on the chassis - or certainly mine didn't the 'Chassis number' was whatever one made up, stamped into a 'chassis plate' off ebay or a Chassis Rail.
I've read the OP's last post and can't see anything wrong with what he's planning - discard the original dodgy I.D. and start again - perfect gets the car back on the road and track correctly - which is all any enthusiast can want.
quote:
Originally posted by Irony
If he SORNs the ringer forever will it matter that he has a car that technically doesn't exist attached to his name? Will this cause some unknown problems later on.
I IVA'd a car that was built for SVA. It essentially sat in a garage for 11 years and I had no trouble getting it through.
quote:
Originally posted by r1_pete
I'd want shut of the existing reg docs as soon as possible, who knows what changes the government will make to sorn in the future, having docs only of a sorn'd car which technically no longer exists, could lead to all sorts of problems.
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Credit where credit is due, this chap is going to take a ringer off the road, and get it sorted. As long as the price is right for him then there is no issues.
Not like hes sticking his hands over his ears, shouting LAA LAA LAA, and just buying it and sticking yt on road regardless.
Hes making an informed decision so there are no problems.
Therotically the only way to do that now is through an ATF licenced facility, who of course will want the scrap metral in exchange for their name on
the form
Though you might get away with the self scrap if you write to them and get them on a good day.
Id expect the current owner to not go that route, as that will implicate him further and in not excecuted to your satisfaction could have them looking
for this scrap car, possibly banging on your door for it and siezing it ?....
As per my previous post I was also a victim of a ringer and still have the dodgy dutton v5 on sorn, I purchased a complete bare chassis to scrap with the v5 as the scrappers weren't willing to just process the paperwork without there actually being a vehicle, he said that dvla did spot checks. In the eyes of the law it's still not correct what I'm doing but there is no other way round it other than opening a can of worms with dvla.
I'm hoping that the VIN number on the striker isn't the same as on the current v5c - if it is that's going to cause me a problem and
I'm not going to buy it - I'm not getting into grinding off stamped vin numbers etc etc. I didn't ask (and check) about whether the
v5c vin number matches the one (if there is one) on the car.
I'm hoping it doesn't - I want a clean (free of vin stamps) so I can retire/scrap the current v5 it's hiding under, prepare the car, in
a legitimate manner for it's IVA, and do right by the Dutton owners, 'legitimise' my car for road-use and carry on with life.
I'm not going to buy it if I can't do that.
I didn't notice a chassis plate but then again I didn't particularly look for one. Perhaps I shouldn't admit that but there we go.
But this way I get to do three things - retire the wrong the V5 documents, get my striker IVA'd and correctly registered and update/upgrade the
car as we go through it at an initial price I can afford and on a basis, going forward, that I can cope with.
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
I'm confused by your question! It's very simple, almost all Duttons will have a Q plate since they were mostly made in an era prior to the SVA when a Q plate was allocated to kit cars, the 'Q' indicating the car was of indefinite origin. The only exception would be Duttons that illegally retained the donor registration - the DVLA had an amnesty prior to the SVA to get these cars correctly registered.
The whole point of the ringing exercise is to (illegally) avoid the work and expense of an SVA/IVA, so people buy a cheap Dutton and simply use it's VIN/Plates/V5. You'd obviously want to buy a Dutton on a Q plate for this purpose, since if it still had it's original donor reg it would be useless to you.
quote:
Originally posted by Oi_Oi_Savaloy
I'm hoping that the VIN number on the striker isn't the same as on the current v5c - if it is that's going to cause me a problem and I'm not going to buy it - I'm not getting into grinding off stamped vin numbers etc etc. I didn't ask (and check) about whether the v5c vin number matches the one (if there is one) on the car.
I'm hoping it doesn't - I want a clean (free of vin stamps) so I can retire/scrap the current v5 it's hiding under, prepare the car, in a legitimate manner for it's IVA, and do right by the Dutton owners, 'legitimise' my car for road-use and carry on with life.
I'm not going to buy it if I can't do that.
I didn't notice a chassis plate but then again I didn't particularly look for one. Perhaps I shouldn't admit that but there we go.
But this way I get to do three things - retire the wrong the V5 documents, get my striker IVA'd and correctly registered and update/upgrade the car as we go through it at an initial price I can afford and on a basis, going forward, that I can cope with.
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
I'm confused by your question! It's very simple, almost all Duttons will have a Q plate since they were mostly made in an era prior to the SVA when a Q plate was allocated to kit cars, the 'Q' indicating the car was of indefinite origin. The only exception would be Duttons that illegally retained the donor registration - the DVLA had an amnesty prior to the SVA to get these cars correctly registered.
The whole point of the ringing exercise is to (illegally) avoid the work and expense of an SVA/IVA, so people buy a cheap Dutton and simply use it's VIN/Plates/V5. You'd obviously want to buy a Dutton on a Q plate for this purpose, since if it still had it's original donor reg it would be useless to you.
This was the bit I was not aware of. Currently you couldn't the systems are in place to stop this, I was not aware of the historic system allowing it.
It's been v quiet on this car buying front recently - mainly because the money I had for this car was in a 60 day notice account plus life got in
the way, as it does and am sure you all know.
I didn't buy the car.
I pulled out last night after quite alot of thought, re-reading the series of replies on here, meeting Andy (i bought the tyres from him that he
didn't want a couple of weeks ago) and basically spending some time actually thinking through the implications of what I was doing/really capable
of and what it might cost if the things that were wrong with the car post-initial IVA test. I'd sort of reconciled all this with the argument
that I'd simply just use it purely as a trackday car (putting it on the road, insured as a Dutton etc etc, simply wasn't on the table).
I also had the headache of how I was actually going to retire /'scrap' the Dutton V5 too. I spoke to two scrap merchants and asked them how
much it was going to take for them to take the dutton v5 (without the actual vehicle of course) and 'scrap' the car. They both
wouldn't touch the concept tbf (even after I'd explained i was simply trying to make the car legitimate (as it were). Maybe if I'd
gone in person things would have been different but I didn't want to do that until I had the actual v5 in my possession.
I'd organised a trailer, got the ratchet straps, even found the time (I work in London, live in wales so trying to find an afternoon to go and
pick the car when the trailer was actually free had been a bit of a nightmare) but when push came to shove the IVA thing and it's implications
proved too much.
Thanks for everyone's advice on here - v much appreciated.
Some of you are going to say that I've dodged a bullet (and you're right in many ways) but I still regret giving it up, even after I've
written everything above. We've committed to putting the kids through a private school (our eldest needs help, our two youngest would thrive in
that environment) from September next year. Finding the money for that is going to be tough/nail biting tbh. We're probably going to have to
pull the money out of hte house or something - what I'm trying to say is that there's not going to be the money left over to indulge in a
third car for quite sometime I feel. As I said in my first post (I think!) timing was everything on this - it was now or never, despite it being
exactly the wrong car to buy!