4 No
Not going well is it.
Perhaps you should just cough up or shut up.
David
is it fair to ask guys to pay to see the forsale bit
this is a locost site so why ask you to pay
whats he going to ask us to pay for next i see it as a money earner rather than cash for the site ,
bet he will make £1000s out of it.
you do know this will be locked and deleted yeah?
well would you have joind the site if you thought he was doing it to make money?
its like the bloody tax man lol
All of this stuff now has me hacked off enough to post!
Yes, some sort of advance announcement would have been appropriate. But there wasn't, so we are where we are.
We all spend some £000's on our cars. So surely the site is worth a £5.00 donation.
If not, will one of the people complaining please volunteer to do it all for nothing
Does this really need another thread??
Is it fair to expect the site owner to fund the cost of the server himself and running costs?? Yes there's a few adverts - but they are the most
unobtrusive of any forum i've known!! OK so traders pay also - but why shouldnt ordinary members give a little too? Also i bet there's a
considerable outlay in ChrisW's time. If you dont want to pay then thats fine - but I dont see £5 as much to ask, especially when picking up a
bargain in the For Sale section is likely to save that £5 and more. If you are happy with the rest of the site then no need for you to contribute to
its running costs - all you lose is the potential of a bargain.
Personally, if ChrisW makes a few quid after all the expenses are taken account of - then does anyone seriously have an issue with that? I doubt
he'll be making his millions here somehow
[Edited on 20/7/09 by Steve G]
It is fair to pay £10 not only £5.
Imagine all the help you get here.
£5=bargain.
6 Yes
4 No
Not going well is it.
Perhaps you should just cough up or shut up.
David
I would like to know how many of these posters who want everything to be free would themselves be willing to set up a site like this using their own
time and resources and not expect anything for doing it 
Why not just contribute a very small amount of money and enjoy the site - simples 
I've not really bothered with these threads but FFS!!!!!
If you think that £5 is too much to pay for all the help and support you can get on here, DON'T PAY!! Go somewhere else!! I'd be prepared to
pay £5 a fekin month for the advise I can get on here! I've asked and answered hundreds of questions. I've learnt more here than I did
throughout my whole school/college/uni days (that may not be strictly true..!) so for a meagre £5.....
Pay-up or stop whinging.
All IMHO of course....
a £5.00 or £10.00 donation is not a lot several of you will get hours of entertainment help etc from this site so why complain, I cant think of
anything else that can keep you this occupied for a Fiver.
The other thing you need to think of is those that have paid a little why shouldn't they get first dabs ?? after all they are financially
supporting the site.
Oh and yes I am a contibutor and am not making this statement out of selfishness I paid the money because I was fed up of only viewing a couple of
posts before having to log back in.
The administartor and moderators of this site should be given a well done for all they do.
£5 is bargain. Why should Chris be left to pay for the hardware needed to keep this site working well? I had no issue with contributing and did so
fairly soon after it was introduced.
Chris has also stated that once a contributor, always a contributor. Status is permanent.
Contributing is voluntary. I dont see an issue with having a benefit. What else would you propose? How about non-contributors being able to respond to
any post in any section but the reply not being posted for 24 hours? Hitting the For Sale section is probs the best solution all round as it doesnt
affect the real root of the site.
Is it only the non-contributors that are complaining? Come on - cough up.
worth every penny.
Just my tupence worth
Denis.
All i'm going to say is Francene needs a new bum hole!
I am already a contributor and have just contributed again. Keep up the good work
get your £5 out you tight git
quote:
Originally posted by thunderace
is it fair to ask guys to pay to see the forsale bit
this is a locost site so why ask you to pay
whats he going to ask us to pay for next i see it as a money earner rather than cash for the site ,
bet he will make £1000s out of it.
quote:
Originally posted by thunderace
i see it as a money earner rather than cash for the site ,
bet he will make £1000s out of it.
Ooops! I just voted for the wrong one! Too late at night to be doing this stuff, I'm off to bed
Chris
quote:
Originally posted by ChrisW
However, the site currently costs me around £250/month to run for colocation of the two servers that run it (1 database, 1 web), plus off-site backup space which keeps a month of rolling backups.
Bargin price, keep up the good work Chris.
Now 17 / 6
Dave
Oh dear looks like you lost this one thunderace
Keep up the good work ChrisW your efforts are much appreciated by many of us
quote:
Originally posted by ChrisW
quote:
Originally posted by thunderace
i see it as a money earner rather than cash for the site ,
bet he will make £1000s out of it.
It's fair to say I've had a few grand in donations over the years. If I had to put a figure on it, I'd guess around the 3k mark.
However, the site currently costs me around £250/month to run for colocation of the two servers that run it (1 database, 1 web), plus off-site backup space which keeps a month of rolling backups. I'm about to add a third to the cluster to try to address some of the speed issues at peak times, and a fourth will follow to do the video work once I'm ready to beta the new site.
Even if you assume that cost has increased linearly since day 1, that still works out to around £12,000 spent out over 8 or so years just on hosting.
Then you've got hardware on top. A decent server won't see you much change out of a grand by the time you fit a good amount of RAM, fast disks, and a decent RAID setup. We're on our third web server, and first database server. That's another £4,000, give or take.
I've got another server sat in wait ready to be swapped out for the current web server. The existing machine will then be rebuilt with a fresh OS and become a static content box. Another £1k.
Then, as above, when the new site comes along, I need to shell out for something nice and powerful to run the video rendering platform, as the new site has integrated 'you tube' style video.
I think we're on £18k so far by my 'back of beermat' calculations.
Add to that more hours than I could even begin to count spent on developing the site, coding, bug fixing, writing new features, not to mention Fozzie's time helping people out and keeping everything in order.
In short, if you think this is some kind of 'get rich quick' scheme you are very much mistaken!
Chris
Is the advertising at the top of this page for free
I'd like to see regular updates on the costs and work involved in running this website/forum. This would be a very good way to remind people that the site doesn't just magically exist! Having said that I personally would be happy to pay a regular subscription for the whole site but maybe that's just too late now the site is so established.
I was always surprised it was only a one off payment. Well worth the money as I don't think I would have been able to build my car without it.
The amount of help, friends I have made and knowing that if I have a problem, sometimes not even concerning a car, I can discuss it here. Car clubs
have an annual subscription and for the sort of advice available on this site it is priceless. Therefore I think it's a very fair price to pay,
long live the Locost site. (Not available to tight gits).
quote:
Originally posted by lexus
All of this stuff now has me hacked off enough to post!
Yes, some sort of advance announcement would have been appropriate. But there wasn't, so we are where we are.
We all spend some £000's on our cars. So surely the site is worth a £5.00 donation.
If not, will one of the people complaining please volunteer to do it all for nothing
I'm sorry, but I can totally understand Chris's point of view here.
This site / forum started as something to support / run alongside Chris's hobby. Over the years it's become a victim of its own success.
Chris has always upheld the "locost" nature of the site, allowing free access for all.
We are not plagued by crappy adverts, the few that are around are discrete and as such probably don't earn Chris much income.
The costs involved in running the site have increased massively as the membership has grown / we all add more posts / photos.
Chris has paid for most of these costs out of the profits of his other web business, which is very generous.
As he has now pointed out it has cost him almost a Caterham, rather than a locost!
I donated a few years back, and will contribute again shortly.
I do think that the changes could have been managed / publicised a bit better, but that's par for the course for a developing site. I'm
sure any changes Chris makes next time will be announced well in advance.
Mike
chrisw
i dont think anyone would mind paying up, its just the lack of information given to us and the way you have gone about it.
personaly i think you would be better off charging £5 then you get the facility to store photos on the site and you get a 30 min delay on all posts
if you pay you get to post xxx amount per day, or something along those lines.
people dont like change, myself i paid up as soon as you put up the nag screen a while ago.
got to admit i think you've over reacted with mr gibs though but at the end of the day its your site, but come on i think you must of taken what
he said the wrong way, be the better chap.
[Edited on 21/7/09 by graememk]
Surely by now the myth that the Internet just 'happens' has blown over. Of course it's only fair that the person who facilitates the
'happening' should be compensated for the time / money that he / she has put in. And if they can make a little on top too, then fair
enough... your thread has just reminded me I've only made the one contribution - will sort that out in a minute or two.
Sorry, but this thread has really p*ssed me off.
Get a grip!
probably best to end this thread soon
I agree at a £5 you can't really complain.
However there is one thing missing from the beermat calculations and that is the revenue from the advertising.
You either tell people the finances are non of their business or you have to give all the facts in my opinion.
Ps... the fact that you have felt the need to post this thread only suggests to me you're a casual user as it's been done to death in the
last week.
For me, it's one of the few sites I check out almost daily (whether I post or not - I take something from it each time I log-in).
So, yes - it is right and proper that 'casual' users who just float about in the hope of buying cheap parts should not get to do so without
making some sort of contribution to the site upkeep.
ChrisW has a new moat around his house thanks to LCB, I've seen it!
Srsly though, change it so avatars & pix aren't hosted here. In the 5 years I've been on here I've never hosted an avatar here and
I've hosted one picture (gone now). I find it more of a pain to host pics here than to use photobucket/imageshack etc, let them foot the bill
[Edited on 21/7/09 by Benzine]
Pps... the last time we both contributed to the same thread, you told us about these new 220bhp X-flows that they 'still build in South Africa' at bargain prices. Not turning this personal or being arsey, but you never got back to us with the source of these engines. Any update (or was it a different engine / or just plain bollocks?).
quote:
Originally posted by Benzine
ChrisW has a new moat around his house thanks to LCB, I've seen it!
Srsly though, change it so avatars & pix aren't hosted here. In the 5 years I've been on here I've never hosted an avatar here and I've hosted one picture (gone now). I find it more of a pain to host pics here than to use photobucket/imageshack etc, let them foot the bill
[Edited on 21/7/09 by Benzine]
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Pps... the last time we both contributed to the same thread, you told us about these new 220bhp X-flows that they 'still build in South Africa' at bargain prices. Not turning this personal or being arsey, but you never got back to us with the source of these engines. Any update (or was it a different engine / or just plain bollocks?).
ChrisW, I know that the £5min Donation is voluntarily, but surely your thought process in regard to this is in keeping with the ethos of how
the site was created in the first place.
Which is great, but as has been pointed out by several people, the site is bigger than that now, hence the need for a few extra pennies for
upkeep/advancement.
I have a few thoughts:
1. Why don't you have people sign up and read a note/banner that says something like;-
"You can sign up for free, but the site costs £xxxx to run, I would like you to experience it for free for one month and then if you like what
you see and think it's worth a donation, then £5 would be greatly appreciated, and a little more would be very generous."
2. I think it was stupid, silly, childish and purile to treat ChrisG the way you did.
3. More involvement by you, in a non threatening manner/more controlled manner, or leave the posting and control of "people" to Foxxie, and
you control the I.T. side.
(This is just because of how you choose to come across, and I understand that it might be frustrating, but at the end of the day, it's been a bit
"toys out of the pram", on occasion...
4. Weekly/Monthly updates on the new site, with accurate time frames. I don't mind waiting a year for anything, UNLESS, I'm told I only have
to wait a month first, and then another month etc.
Hope what I said doesn't offend. It's not meant to. I couldn't really be bothered with all this nonsense, but I thought it was worth
trying to be a bit constructive and move onwards etc...
Steve
ETA:- I knew I'd forgotten something!
2. (what was meant to be point 2!) You could have a similar Message sent out automatically to members every year or two years, suggesting that if they
are still enjoying the site and would like to make an additional donation then that would be greatly received.
When I changed my name from worX last year after I got married, and then lost my job, I was totally devoid of money (and still am!) so couldn't
upgrade my new status to contributor, because even though it's a fiver, I just don't have it ATM. So despite the falling out we had in the
past, and my opinion about it and some recent behaviour, I was willing (if unable) to donate again. It's just your approach to the donations in
the first place (see point 1.) and the way that this newest for sale "feature" rolled out...
ATB
[Edited on 21/7/09 by Steve Hignett]
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Ps... the fact that you have felt the need to post this thread only suggests to me you're a casual user as it's been done to death in the last week.
For me, it's one of the few sites I check out almost daily (whether I post or not - I take something from it each time I log-in).
So, yes - it is right and proper that 'casual' users who just float about in the hope of buying cheap parts should not get to do so without making some sort of contribution to the site upkeep.
No Benzine... not referring to thee!
The x-flow claim was made in an older thread by the Thread Starter (Thunderace?).
My only slight concern is that if things are not clear then we begin to scare off new members to the site....
Yes, you need some sort of "bonus" for those who have paid the £5....
Why not make it so you HAVE to be a contributor to create a new thread in the for sale/wanted area.. But make the threads available to all right
away..
New members will see the classfieds and may join up for that reason...
And as has already been said, please PLEASE make sure you are more transparant and give more warning if you are planning change... it takes some of us
a long time to come to terms with such things!
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
No Benzine... not referring to thee!
The x-flow claim was made in an older thread by the Thread Starter (Thunderace?).
quote:
Originally posted by thunderace
is it fair to ask guys to pay to see the forsale bit
this is a locost site so why ask you to pay
whats he going to ask us to pay for next i see it as a money earner rather than cash for the site ,
bet he will make £1000s out of it.
i done this post just to see how well you would defend this site lol
i will be paying lol
I DO NOT BELIEVE IT!
1) I do not believe all this wingeing over contributing less than the cost of a packet of fags to be able to access such a brilliant resource. I for
one would have been totally stuiffed with just 'The Book'.
2) I cannot belive Mr. Whippy thinks he's 'ordinary'.
I dont understand why there seems to be an underlying tone from a few people that Chris stands to make a lot of money out of this site
My thoughts;
1. Why the hell shouldnt he? (well maybe not a lot, but at least a modest income to cover time).
2. He wont by getting the odd £5 on a sporadic basis.
3. The site must cost to keep running, and probs a lot so why cant it generate a bit.
4. Did the founder of Google do their site for nowt?
5. Did the founder of ebay do theirs for nowt? etc etc etc
6. AFAIK this site is not a charity. I would say it is fair for those that contribute time and effort into its smooth operation get a modest fee for
their efforts (ie Chris and Fozzie).
7. I wouldnt do it for nowt.
Personally i see £5 as a pitence for what we get back in return. i wouldnt have a major issue in the contribution being requested on a yearly or every
2 years basis. And if Chris decides a small fee for his time would be due (as im sure the site takes a lot more looking after now vs when it was
started) then it is up to him what he spends that fee on.
Possibly the only thing missing is some form of 'rules' (bad term!) around how people are invited to contribute. Im guessing there cant be a
membership as such as that would change the dynamics of the site and push it into a business, however, for instance, suggesting a contribution every
so often might be valid, and in return you get some contributor priviledges.
I like the idea that you have to be a contributor to post and reply in Forsale or wanted section, however anyone can view only.
Or to summarise - COUGH UP (if you can afford it of course).
quote:
Originally posted by DarrenW
4. Did the founder of Google do their site for nowt?
5. Did the founder of ebay do theirs for nowt? etc etc et
It always amazes me on how people complain over the smallest things. I remember back in my Karting days, people used to complain if the club wanted to
put the membership fees up. Back then it was £60 a year, that got you 365 access to the track, these were the same people that thought nothing of
blowing £200 an event on tyres and yet they didn't want to spend £60 on a years membership.
Personally I think it would be fair to introduce an annual membership to this site, and I certainly didn't think twice about contributing.
Just my opinion
Scott
I know what you mean Pheonix. Maybe the same people think it is a good idea to go out on strike each year to cripple the country rather than focus on
continuous improvement ans safeguard our futures....... but i digress.
Maybe if it was set up as a locostbuilders owners club that you join that then gives you free access to the forum. Problem is this invokes a whole
different set of parameters and is a major digression from the format that is in use currently. With that in mind maybe evolving the current situation
into a free area and a contributors area is the way to go. In essence the commercial areas can be posted into by either traders or contributing
private sellers but viewable by all. I was wondering if a pay-per-ad idea was workable but that will have issues on its own.
At the end of the day it doesnt matter which way Chris changed things we would have a debate. He has introduced a system that he is comfortable with
and which presumable means the site can continue in its current format for the next few years, so for me im more than happy with that. If in afew
years technology involves and means we need a whole new hosting set up then he can propose changes at that time, but for now we all get a free
technical and social network with the chance to freely trade our wares should we wish to make a miniscule contribution. Simples.
Actually I'm finding just that damn contribution banner not coming up all the time is worth the money alone, it was very annoying
Ah... a timely reminder.... I Have just sent another donation to support the forum.
Without a doubt this is one of the best forum's about.
Clean, Sensible, helpful, friendly, and cheap.
These boxes cost money to run.
A Fiver wont hurt any of us.
Keep up the good work Chris.
Cheers.
I've just paid my fee as getting fed up with the pop up page too.
Personally i'd charge everyone a "nominal" £5 per year for upkeep, maintenance, new kit, software, dev time etc etc.
Anything left over i'd hold in escro for future use on the site.
making the balance and spent items published on here to show parity to all fellow users.
Well done on this site anyway.
if ebay got rid of the idiots and abusers like this then it would make life much more bearable
just my 2 pennies worth
Yes of course it bloody well is, and if you don't like it pi55 off somewhere else. What's £5 for the huge wealth of knowledge that's
available on here, and all made possible by one man, ChrisW and his ever faithful sidekick Fozzie.
Seriously, if you really are that mean, then you really don't belong here.
And if you think sites like this don't cost anything to run then you really need to go away and get a life.
I think I've made that nice and clear then
Rant over ......
quote:
Originally posted by DarrenW
6. AFAIK this site is not a charity. I would say it is fair for those that contribute time and effort into its smooth operation get a modest fee for their efforts (ie Chris and Fozzie).
7. I wouldnt do it for nowt..........
..... I do not get a fee.....
As I post this there have been 1797 viewings of this thread and only 54 have taken time to post a reply. Only 3% response thus far. If there is so much apathy in the next general election we shall deserve what we get to govern the country! If only that number have or ultimately will contribute to this forum (which is a mine of information) Chris will be struggling to buy a new server, there won' be enough for a half decent desktop!
You guys and girls are all pretty smart. Can anyone tell me what "purile" means?
I think, even though I am always one to fully take advantage of free things, that the charge is fair. Nobody wants to send to Canada for less that the
cost of British Columbia real estate anyways so it doesn't affect me adversely. But banning ChrisG just means the site is a bit duller. If it
weren't for the humour on here, I'd be in the corner of my living room in a puddle of tears, caused 100% by my dumb idea to build a car.
[Edited on 21/7/09 by RK]
quote:
Originally posted by Fozzie
quote:
Originally posted by DarrenW
6. AFAIK this site is not a charity. I would say it is fair for those that contribute time and effort into its smooth operation get a modest fee for their efforts (ie Chris and Fozzie).
7. I wouldnt do it for nowt..........
6)....I also contribute to the forum....my choice..
7).....so yes.... I do do it for nowt.....and gladly so
Why? well as you know this site is now huge, we have members from all walks of life, from every conceivable back-ground, from all over the world......
But......we all have common ground, in that we are passionate about building cars......not just seven-esque types, but all, even 3 wheelers!
We are all here to help one another, be it with advice, a few friendly words, encouragement, hands-on assistance, meetings, even step by step 'How tos' ..... not forgetting the totally 'Off Topic' help and advice on all manner of subjects......that is what makes a forum 'great' .....
Sometimes the site has glitches, I am here to help with that, and make sure you can all get the answers to your questions, and not left standing in the garage with bolt in hand, and oil wee-ing everywhere for too long, whilst trying to log on.....
Fozzie
Thank you to all of you for your support. Glad to know our efforts are appreciated!
Cheers, Chris
regarding the views vs posts.
I've twice written a reply and decided not to hit send. Both times because someone has already said what i'm thinking.
As it seems we're voting here goes.
Fozzie (as i've said many times) i think you're wonderful and greatly appreciate all you do for us.
ChrisW - Irrespective of if i agree or disagree with what you've done its your site at the end of the day. People who complain about you
restricting their freedom of speech etc need to appreciate that.
I guess we're in what the papers call "silly season". Perhaps we should all go in the garage and make some more of our cars (although
in between sinus flare ups i'm removing a fireplace from my lounge - it seemed a good idea when i started).
What a great idea, if you contribute you get to see the bargains first, if not you don't, who can complain at that?
It was this site that pushed me over the edge in to car building and without the resources and the experience this site affords, then there is no way
I could do it on my own. I pick my chassis up on the 1st August and then I will be asking 100s of questions and I know each one of them will be
answered by a great bunch of people who take the time and effort to reply to what probably is for them a basic question, and to a, on the most part,
total stranger. I really do appreciate the help I have got and will get over the next few months / years building my car and I am glad I found this
forum.
I have a fair idea how much it costs to run this forum and Chrisw is not making money off of it, if everyone contributed £5 per annum he might end up
with a very small profit, but who cares and who would grudge him it for all of the work he must do?
Just my tuppence worth.
Colin
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Actually I'm finding just that damn contribution banner not coming up all the time is worth the money alone, it was very annoying
This site is simultaneously informative, entertaining and even witty at times. Well worth a fiver, particularly if you benefit directly from the For
Sale section as a buyer or seller, as I have.
All of life is here, unfortunately.
Just cough up! I wouldn't complain if the contribution became annual.
Geoff.
I've just become a contributor, it's a shame it took something like this to make me realise that i should do it.
I should of contributed years ago as i wouldn't have been able to build and sva my car without the wealth of knowledge and experience from people
on this site, i guess we take things for granted sometimes eh...
At the end of the day a fiver (or however much you choose to donate) is a bargain, could you imagine how much it would cost to find out/carry out the
things that people tell you for free on here..?!
It's just a shame chrisw decided to ban chris from here, its one less knowledgeable person's input/experience (and humour) gone from the
site and we will all suffer for it i suppose...
[Edited on 22/7/09 by foes]