I'm getting worried.
What's the problem? - I hear you ask.
Well it's this forum. I may be wrong, and feel free to shoot me down, BUT it's going the way of a number of other forums and turning in to a
"Where can I buy 'X'" rather than "how do I make 'X'"
Perhaps it's me getting old, but people are getting too impatient, wanting stuff NOW, rather than thinking about it and building it.
Anyway, what do you think?
Marcus
grumpy old man
its always been a mix......
Only 50% of people on here build a 'bits of metal' locost - many buy partial kits such as MK or luego........ thats buying summat in isnt
it?
If you take the hard route for everything, it adds time, and lessens the chances of finishing the car in a decent time, if at all!
try making grp bits......... its much better to buy them!
atb
steve
It's not really due to a lack of imagination orindependant thinking on peoples part, it's more that the group as a whole has come up with alot of good ideas resulting in a large knowledge base thats already there. I would personally like to copy someone elses good idea that I know has been road tested than try and design my own solution.
Nice Wheels by the way.
"How do you make them then?"
"It's not really due to a lack of imagination orindependant thinking on peoples part, it's more that the group as a whole has come up
with alot of good ideas resulting in a large knowledge base thats already there. I would personally like to copy someone elses good idea that I know
has been road tested than try and design my own solution".
More like lack of skill!
actually it's quite funny, I was looking at the wheels you have on your locost, which are very similar to those on my focus, now i started
thinking about having them re-drilled to fit the bolt pattern of my locost, just so I can copy your good idea.
It's just knowledge base, it's already there, so why re-invent the wheel? Although I do agree, someone once tried to re-invent the wheel and
came up with a tank, so some inovation is good, but it should be strongly grounded on prven theory and practices.
Otherwise there wuld be a sudden jump in the number of aluminum framed locosts that miraculously break in half at the first sign of stress.
the reality is that car building is now a hobby for the rich as well as the skilled. Some bastards might have both in abundance, the rest of us just juggle the two.
I've just built a heater. That is after I bout one that was useless, took off the fan, got a bigger matrix off eBay and made a box out of sheet
aly to fit it in.
I would rather but bits than make them as I want the car on the road now. Some people prefer / have the skills / tools / workshop to make things.
Assembling a car for the first time was making things enough, especially as I had to make a few brackets here and there. Next time (God forbid)
I'll probably take my time a bit more and make more of it myself. for me, building a car was 70% - 30% about driving it. Assembling the kit was
enough for now.
That's such a narrow viewed opinion. Even the best manufacturer's outsource... does that make them any less a manufacturer? IMO no it
doesn't - I merely depends on where you want to draw the line of manufacture yourself, what skill base you have, resources available and
ultimately how much money you can throw at something? To totally make your own & type car would cost thousands into the 5 figure variety. Lathe,
Milling Machine, Welder - GRP bucks etc etc...
Middle of the road is realistically buy a chassis, bodywork and ancillaries then build. It's not so straight forward is it? For the hardcore they
manufacture their own chassis and buy/source GRP for the XXX hardcore chassis and GRP self manufacture.
Horses for courses you grumpy old git
Marcus
I agree with you, and as youve read some of my posts , we do share the same views
regards
steve
NOT SO WORRIED FROM DONCASTER
There will always be a varying blend of time spent versus money spent,and as we are all in different situtions and our degrees of skill,knowledge and
facilities vary so will the way that everyone builds their cars.
If some people did not buy most of their parts and build with their own touches they would probably never finish a car,that would be a shame.
Perhaps we should forget ideals sometimes and accept that we all do things differently.
I for one would be peeved if someone built a car that looked and drove identical to mine as although I have bought a standard chassis I have built
quite a lot myself using running gear that at the time was a little different, with a few of my own engineering touches and alterations to the
standard MK chassis along the way.
Thus building what I hope will eventually be a finely honed and well balanced track car.
The pleasure for me now is to set the car up for better handling and use of power,not an easy task as we all know.
I for one think that if we all did the same thing to the book ,half of the cars would look poorly finished but by everyone building cars to their own
ability or time available the standards of cars will rise,surely not a bad thing.
From another old git,Dean.......
[Edited on 31/12/05 by DEAN C.]
quote:
Originally posted by Genesis
.......for the XXX hardcore chassis and GRP self manufacture.........
I wouldnt even call bodywork really hardcore, try building an engine for the car... start with a foam cutout of your block and start casting your own parts...
quote:
Originally posted by derf
I wouldnt even call bodywork really hardcore, try building an engine for the car... start with a foam cutout of your block and start casting your own parts...
WORRIED OF DORSET
It seems to me that the prime occupation of a lot of members, is building a reputation, rather than a car.
Isn't a difference of opinion wonderful? 
Happy New Year!
Don't we all make what we can, and buy what we would find difficult or time consuming to make ?
I'm a fabricator by trade, but I'm f****d when it comes to machanics, electricals, painting etc.
I get a better finish if I pour paint from a tin, and spread it with a broom than if I spray it.
I wouldn't dream of attemping fibreglass, I can only admire those that do.
I enjoy building, so I build what I can, get help from you lot (thanks) with things I struggle with,
and buy what's left.
ATB
Paul G
Paul, I think you said it perfectly.
We are all here because we love building things. We mostly all do what we can to the best of our abilities or our time. Some people either have a lot
of abilities, or the stamina to learn, and others understand their limitations and prefer to entrust the skills of experts for critical assemblies.
But I would say that everyone that puts a wrench to their car in the name of constructing one is to be commended for the effort!
I build what i can and i buy what i can,t build.I think thats what most people seem to do.To build everything you would need a machine shop that would
cost more than the car.Some people have better equipment than others and some have more money.SO WHAT.Do it your own way in your own time and enjoy
it
In a similar vein, I often feel that the advice given to new bulders to not bother building a chassis etc but to buy the same kit as the respondant
has 'built' is all too prevalent.
I realise that we all have differing abilities and skills but surely we should be encouraging people to build their own if that was their original
intention, not trying to disued them.
Mick
Another grumpy old git
quote:
Originally posted by Mix
In a similar vein, I often feel that the advice given to new bulders to not bother building a chassis etc but to buy the same kit as the respondant has 'built' is all too prevalent.
I realise that we all have differing abilities and skills but surely we should be encouraging people to build their own if that was their original intention, not trying to disued them.
Mick
Another grumpy old git
I agree with Paul all of these cars reflect on what people are good at. They are all a fine achievement once on the road . Happy new year to you all
regards Trev.
My moto has been throughout my build-
If I CAN make it then I will.
From the chassis down to turned parts & megajolt ignition.
My reason is that my car will be unique.
When the car is finally finished I can stand back & say ,I BUILT that......Not I ASSEMBLED that!
The down side of course is that it takes ages, & I appreciate that many of the kit builders would rather be driving than building the car.
Each to thier own!
Steve said that he thinks that 50% of builders on here are scratch builders.
I would be very suprised if it was this high
quote:
Originally posted by Marcus
I'm getting worried.
What's the problem? - I hear you ask.
Well it's this forum. I may be wrong, and feel free to shoot me down, BUT it's going the way of a number of other forums and turning in to a "Where can I buy 'X'" rather than "how do I make 'X'"
Perhaps it's me getting old, but people are getting too impatient, wanting stuff NOW, rather than thinking about it and building it.
Anyway, what do you think?
Marcus
Isn't a difference of opinion wonderful?
"Genesis"
What do I think?does it matter?Enjoy!
"Jon Ison"
Although I agree with Marcus in principle I think the two quotes above sum it up totally,and I dont discourage anyone!
PS. I'm off into the garage to start my new project,a pile of bits in boxes which in a couple of years should resemble a 1964 Velocette
Venom,glad Im not still casting my engine block for the Indy.
[Edited on 31/12/05 by DEAN C.]
50% was a guess I think when we had polls in the past, its summat like 30-40% with the rest all various kits.
Personally, I found building my chassis the most enjoyable bit. Then, on the other hand, Ive seen the MK chassis in a show and thought how nicely
turned out it was.
But, my intention was always to create somethign unique that I could say was from a pile of steel, and not a kit. Started in 2000 btw and 80%
complete. (Pehaps this is a good argument for keeping things quick and simple and close to 'book' design, which my car isnt....)
regarding manufacturers outsourcing - there are reasons..... My BIL used to work for one of fords suppliers. He also worked for them when they were
part of ford too. Apparently, ford tend to sell off a lot of their own parts making divisions for two reasons. Firstly, they can beat them up for a
better price and swap suppliers should they need to. Secondly, if they do need to swap suppliers or make other money savings, its someone else that
lays people off and makes redundancies, and not Ford........
atb
steve
I'd agree with Steve.
the things that took the most time on my car we're the thing's that matter least.
If I started again I'd leave out the heater, the boot, the fully trimmed interior, the complicated dash etc.
Keep it Simple Stupid - words to live by!
It's nice to be able to say "I made that", everything apart from the roll bar and the bits Henry Ford Gave me is an original, Chrisg
item (Which is probably why it's so crap!)
It's a Like a graph with cheap and quick as the axes.
The cheaper it is, the longer it takes.
Conversly you can have it tomorrow if you have enough cash, and Caterham's phone number.
There's nothing like the experience of driving at speed in a car you MADE, rather than built, Pride's a good thing
It could be an excellent laxative too.
Cheers
Chris
For me, building was 75% of the 'hobby', with the actual driving a bonus (I've always wanted a 'seven' but could never afford
it).
I deliberately didn't go for the bells & whistles approach - super-light, ultra-fast, whatever - and instead went for a 'classic'
design.
It was fun to make, is a huge grin to drive around, and still occupies me even though it's on the road.
I don't care if others want to go for the flash, ultra-fast car - that's their choice. I'm having fun with what I've got!
David
First of all, allow me to apologise if I offended anyone with this thread, it was definitely not intended!
I appreciate the work that goes into even the most comprehensive kit, and agree with Jon, if that's what floats your boat, who cares, enjoy.
I just think a lot of people are missing out.
Before Locost, I couldn't weld, spray or bend aluminium. I bought a welder (secondhand, I hasten to add!), was given a small comperessor, and a
book.
It was 2 weeks of welding practice before I dared starting to weld the chassis. I cut up so many pieces of RHS to check for porous welds, bashed them
into submission until the metal snapped before the welds, only then did I start.
This is where I feel lots are missing out. Ok, if space is a problem, I can't argue. But any idiot can learn to weld, with very few exceptions (I
proved that).
A little mechanical knowledge can go a long way and mechanical sympathy will get you further. But the most important attribute is patience.
Go on build your chassis - it's easy
Marcus
Oh, and as for being a grumpy old git, yes, you're probably right!
I have to agree to a certain extent with the original post. We are a small nation of people but have always been an enormous nation of inventors and
engineers possible the largest on earth. I am always telling my Son that when your are faced with a problem you might not always be able to solve it
but you must first look around you and try all your resources to solve the problem yourself. Exhaust all possibilities before admitting defeat.
Personal achievment must be the greatest feeling in the world, and I would say to anyone wanting to build a kit car "If thats what you want to do
then fine "
However anyone out there who thinks to themselves " I wonder if I could do the whole thing myself" then the answer is definately yes. If
you're confident enough to think you might be able to I'm sure you can especially with all the help available on here.
As far as I am concerned its make what I can and buy what I cant make.
Most people fear the electrics. As an apprenticed (old school) BT Engineer of 36 years experience, and a practising Radio Amateur of 25 years, I find
that part easy. Some do, and some dont, and that goes for all aspects of the build.
Lets not knock each other. I dont care about reputations, or whether my build is better than yours.
To me, this site is about people of all abilities and skill levels coming together and helping each other to build our cars.
Thats what this site is about, not whether you are a die hard scratch builder or a chequebook builder.
ALL should be welcome, as we each have different skills, knowlege and experience to offer to those less fortunate not to have that particular skill or
snippet of knowlege.
Edit:
Couldnt spell apprentice (now corrected)
[Edited on 2/1/2006 by wilkingj]
Here here.; )
quote:
Here here.; )
Marcus,I dont think anyone took offence,you were only giving people a reality check and at least you've the guts to say what you think in a
reasonable manner.
I think most of us understood where you were coming from.
I'm a qualified engineer(time served fitter/mechanic) but it never stops amazing me the cars some non mechanical people finish,mind you there are
some rough ones as well,but not many now probably due to the SVA.