hi all, merry christmass.
i am be trying to find out the engine specs of the rover 827 v6 engine, which is a honda engine. but i can not find the weight of the engine and the
weight of the gearbox, any idea's?
thanks
stuart
Don't know myself, I expect you will try googling etc, but you might want to bear in mind that the gearbox will normally be a transverse unit, is
that what you want?
John
i have tried goggle, but i can not find it, maybe wrong words i am using.
i want a front wheel drive v6 2.7 litre engine to stick in to a front of a mini, which i will be doing shortly, with a bit of luck.
teh plan is get a old mini, repaire it, put a i pice flip front on, maybe a roof chop, make my own front sub frame, chop the bluckhead out make a new
one and put a v6 in.
thanks
stuart
Have you considered the Mazda/ford 2.5 used in the Mazda6 / 626 / Ford Probe ? Small , light , tunable and cheap as chips - I payed £100 for the one
going into my Fury in the next few days 
Don'y know about the old 827 but the later KV6 from the 800 and landrovers seems good.
Wiki
It is used to good efect in Les Mutch's Dax rush (especially when tuned by Tom New )
Video of the Dax
no i havent not, are they front wheel drive engines, it is that i throught a rover as it will be the same make, as well the engine is honda, it is
good quality.
more info about thoses engines i think i will have a llok.
thanks
stuart
I'm using this engine in my car! I originally considered the later Rover KV6 (didn't know about the honda back then). I made some
enquiries for info on a rover 800 forum and the response was a unanimous 'use the 2.7 honda cos the KV6 will fall to bits!'.
Great engine by all accounts. I remember weighing mine at about 125kg with no exhaust manifolds, ancilliaries, or flywheel (but did have my steel
adaptor plate on) - so pretty light for a V6 with a lazy, torquey 177bhp as standard.
The main pain in the arse is that there is no nice separate loom from engine to ecu like most engines have making installation into another car easy.
Instead the ecu is under the driver's seat and the wiring is all merged with the main loom. Would be a horrible job to unpick it all. I have
detailed wiring diagrams and was going to wire from scratch. I've since decided to ditch the standard management, rip off the dizzy and other
emmissions gubbins etc etc, and go megasquirt 'n edis - much better option imho.
You're other source of info is Phantom (if they're still around). They use this engine in their Phantom GTR kit (which I think is quite
nice). They will probably sell you a loom if I recall.
Not sure on gearbox weight - same as any other transverse box I should imagine. LSD is available, but can't remember which models, if any, had
as standard.
Hope that helps
quote:
Originally posted by Liam
I'm using this engine in my car! I originally considered the later Rover KV6 (didn't know about the honda back then). I made some enquiries for info on a rover 800 forum and the response was a unanimous 'use the 2.7 honda cos the KV6 will fall to bits!'.
I had an 825 - same Honda engine (just smaller than the 827) and it was brilliant. Until the headgasket blew!
hi all, thanks for the replys, i might try and get a 825 engine and box as i want a manual, and i do not think that the 827 only comes in auto, so i
might just get teh smaller one.
as well is there any cheap way to tune the engines up? to over 200+bhp
thanks
stuart
Turbo ?
The Honda 2.5 V6 fitted to the early Rover 825/Sterling/Honda Legend was nothing but trouble --- main problems over heating, low oil pressure and
camshaft wear. In addition it had little low and medium speed torque.
The Honda 2.7 V6 fitted to the Rover 827/800 Coupe/Last Tranverse engined version of the Honda Legended was very much improved, but was still a little
lacking in torque and performance.
KV6 fiitted to the last Rover V6 engined 800 (also called the 825) was in initially very problematic with head gasket problems but almost all the
engines were exchanged and reworked by Rover under extended warranty to much closer to the spec used in the Rover 75 and Freelander and the reworked
engines give littlte trouble.
However the Rover 75 V6 is a better bet as it is a more advanced specification.
Manual Gearboxes Rover 800 V6 PG series 5 speed gearbox.
Rover 75 Getrag 5 speed.
Auto Boxes Jatco 800 4 speed 75 5 speed
But why choose a V6 --- V6 engines because of thier layout they are a truely horrible bodge --- dynamically unbalanced and rough, the only reason
they are useable at all is because they have additional counter balancing shafts.
Better to use a 4 cylinder Turbo ie the Rover 1.8KT or heavier but more poweful 2.0 T series Turbo or even a good no-turbo like Honda's
2.3 straight 4 Twincam four used in the Rover 623.
[Edited on 26/12/08 by britishtrident]
During my research on the rover 800 forums, the 2.5 seemed to have a much lower reputation than the 2.7. The 2.7 was developed somewhat and the older
2.5 had a number of weaknesses. Definately manual 827s, or a 2.5 box will probably fit (not a 2.5 KV6 box though of course).
I expect my 2.7 to make close to 200bhp on the megasquirt with the dual length inlet butterflies removed. I also plan to twin turbo at a later date.
There was actually a factory twin turbo version of this engine in a Japan-only Honda Legend. 280bhp.
Liam
Defo manual boxex available. My Father in law had an 827 vittesse with a manual box. Fast car and very smooth engine IIRC.
Deary me, BT! Expected better from you than that V6-ist nonsense
Sure V6s have a theoretical primary inbalance, but in practice it isn't hard to mitigate. Practically any modern V6 (and the majority do not
even have extra balance shafts at all - carefully designed crankshaft with offset journals will do) has a smoother power delivery than a straight 4 -
and that's in the technical sense of less torque variation throughout the cycle, not just the 'feel'.
Liam
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
But why choose a V6 --- V6 engines because of thier layout they are a truely horrible bodge --- dynamically unbalanced and rough, the only reason they are useable at all is because they have additional counter balancing shafts.
[Edited on 26/12/08 by britishtrident]
quote:
Originally posted by Liam
Sure V6s have a theoretical primary inbalance, but in practice it isn't hard to mitigate.
To mitigate doesn't mean to eliminate completey. The point is many V6s, including the one in question, don't require a balancer shaft to
give a smoother power delivery than a straight 4. Certainly not a 'truely horrible bodge' only made useable at all by balancer shafts!
Liam
Image deleted by owner v6 2.5 kv6 engine fits snugg
[Edited on 26/12/08 by imp paul]
Although it's bit heavier, have you thought about the Alfa V6. Available in 2.5, 3.0 and 3.2 litre forms, and 12V and 24V versions. The 2.5 24V which I have is 192 BHP stock, so by the time I've fitted it in, albeit with some "minor" tuning, it should have about 230-240 BHP and an 8,500 red line. Not sure how it compares weight wise to the Honda or KV6, but it is probably heavier. And many of them come with a 6 speed box, which can be fitted with an LSD quite easily. They are not the cheapest of engines to buy though.
Another vote for the Probe engine from me - here's mine , going into my Fury tomorrow
[img][/img]
How heavy is it Claire? I really do need to weigh mine at some point.
hi all, thanks for the info, on all other options, which i did not even think about.lol
the weight is a big issues as i do not want to have to do so much mods on the front and rear brakes and sussepion it will need massive wheels on it
and cost lots of money forthe brakes and lots of money to put new pad's and disc on it.lol
as well that i will need to have massive steel frame to hold it all.
i do not think if i would be able to fit a turbo under a mini bonnet. maybe if i bulge the bonnet?
as well would you be able to make a motorbike gearbox fit to a car engine? and if you could, would ittake the troque of the engine?
thanks
stuart
Sorry to say this - but I dont think its a good idea to put a V6 into a mini without major mod's to the brakes and suspension - as well as a bit
of structural `reinforcement`
quote:
Originally posted by clairetoo
Sorry to say this - but I dont think its a good idea to put a V6 into a mini without major mod's to the brakes and suspension - as well as a bit of structural `reinforcement`
why not try a Honda k20a engine would make more sense lots more fun
and it will fit
quote:
Originally posted by imp paul
Image deleted by owner v6 from a probe fits snugg
well i was told its a Mazda?ford lump but but ill leave it with you as its not my car its a pals i can find out more if need be? right i have done
some home work it is a 2.5 kv6 engine from a rover in a nut shell
cheers Claire
[Edited on 26/12/08 by imp paul]
Well, if that's the Kv6, you'll never get all that in the front of a mini! Not without a huge amount of possibly pointless work.
In a mini, doesn't the original engine sit on top of the gearbox? whereas more modern front wheel drive units fit in front of the gearbox (and
thus poke throught the bonnet)?
John
why not look at this it would be a better way to go as car would still drive like a mini and go like stink lol http://www.pro-motive.co.uk/R1KitInfo.html
quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson
In a mini, doesn't the original engine sit on top of the gearbox? whereas more modern front wheel drive units fit in front of the gearbox (and thus poke throught the bonnet)?
John
here is a pic of a rover 2.5 v6 engine and gearbox in a front of a mini.
v6 in a front of a mini
stuart
quote:
Originally posted by Stuart_B
here is a pic of a rover 2.5 v6 engine and gearbox in a front of a mini.
v6 in a front of a mini
stuart
yes it is a mini clubman. have not got a picture of a mini one
Do you know what sort of suspension set up that is running? Still not sure that having such a big heavy lump in the front is a good idea though.
John, how tall are you if you don't fit? I'm 6'3" and have always fitted in my minis just fine.
[Edited on 27/12/08 by DIY Si]
quote:
Originally posted by DIY Si
John, how tall are you if you don't fit? I'm 6'3" and have always fitted in my minis just fine.
quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson
quote:
Originally posted by DIY Si
John, how tall are you if you don't fit? I'm 6'3" and have always fitted in my minis just fine.
Well, I used to be 6'4" (bit shorter now due to age (and weight) related compression), but a lot of that height comes from my deliciously long legs, which meant that might right knee ended up jammed between the steering wheel and the door in a standard Mini.
I could have moved the seat back, I suppose, but it didn't seem promising so most of my motoring from that era was done in Fords, especially Cortinas. Did drive my brother's Imp for a while, though, come to think of it.
John
Dont forget that most V6s sound terrible. Very buzzy exhaust note at high rpm. I am currently trying to decide how to shut mine up. Sidepipes would
sound horrible so I am trying to make room for rear exit exhaust with proper mufflers. As soon as I'm feeling better that is (damned flu!).
Cheers.
quote:
Originally posted by C10CoryM
Dont forget that most V6s sound terrible. Very buzzy exhaust note at high rpm. I am currently trying to decide how to shut mine up. Sidepipes would sound horrible so I am trying to make room for rear exit exhaust with proper mufflers. As soon as I'm feeling better that is (damned flu!).
Cheers.
quote:
Originally posted by DIY Si
How heavy is it Claire? I really do need to weigh mine at some point.
quote:
Originally posted by clairetoo
quote:
Originally posted by DIY Si
How heavy is it Claire? I really do need to weigh mine at some point.
I just popped it on some old bathroom scales (not the most accurate method.....) and a bare engine (no flywheel / pully's / etc ) and it's 110kg's
A lot less than I was expecting
yes it is, a pinto is like 145kg and a type 9box is 55kg i think.
quote:
Originally posted by C10CoryM
Dont forget that most V6s sound terrible.
well, i think i might try and get a 2.5 engine with a manual box or a 2.7 and a buy a manual box from a 825 rover, then get a nice supercharger on it,
to give it a few extra horse in the mini, and run some big brakes and some heavy duty bracing in the mini to handle the power, and to keep the shell
from flexing.
hoping to get a rusty old mini in the new year. then start up the welder and start repaire it first, slowy as i am a student and only afford small
amount a month.
stuart
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by C10CoryM
Dont forget that most V6s sound terrible.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6cs889alqtQ
Wish my car sounded that bad
. . They obvously have their uses though and I do have one in my car. I do think this is too big an engine for the front of a Mini, I fitted a Montego Turbo & later an M series Rover 16v into mine for Class 6
autograssing which is a no limits Fwd class. In both cases it was a massive amount of re-working, firstly with a much modified & widened Mini
subframe & later it had a scratch built frame & that was later modded further to mk1 Golf front struts.
I cant see the V6 being much shorter than than most 4cyl inline engines & it's a helluva lot wider, that V6 totally fills that clubman engine
bay, everything else will be much compromised to make the room.
Sorry if this all sounds a bit negative, I dont mean it to! I'm all for this kind of thing but I'd encourage you to look for an engine that
doesnt compromise the Mini's strong points & addresses the weak areas: they are light & agile cars (adding a lot of weight in the front
will hurt that) but suffer from an engine which is not the easiest or cheapest to tune & you're stuck with a 4 speed box unless you spend as
much again on the box itself.
The bike engine has to be worth a good look, I'm no fan of them but for the money they've got a lot of power, compact, light & a
sequential box (but a bit lacking in the reverse department )
Or there's loads of sub 2000cc cars that have an engine that would provide well over 100bhp & in some cases match or better the Honda V6 with
nowhere near the weight & size problems.
There's plenty scope to make a Mini faster by lightening them too, for example replace the rear subframe with a coil-over shocker type beam to
save a load of lbs in one weekend's work. Best bit is that way you get more speed & more MPG!
If you dont already know about this site have yourself a look through here, plenty ideas here: http://www.16vminiclub.com/forums/index.php
I can see these boys being less than kind about the Fwd V6 idea though!
After all though, it's your car, build it how you want! And mabye I should listen to my own advice, I've got a Mini pickup & a Honda
H-series from a Prelude that's got me rubbing my chin!
[Edited on 30/12/08 by hillbillyracer]