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Ferarri International Assistance strikes again
Mark Allanson - 27/6/10 at 12:57 PM

F1 is SO fixed, I have just turned it off - going to do some gardening

Dusty - 27/6/10 at 12:59 PM

Only lost time. 14 secs. Didn't lose a place.

scootz - 27/6/10 at 01:01 PM

Eh? Hamilton broke the rules... his team have accepted that!

His punishment has not cost him a place - had he not broken the rules then he would be a good bit further down the pack!

Seems to me like McLaren have just had a lucky break!

Dusty - 27/6/10 at 01:05 PM

Terrible circuit. No overtaking chances at all except major mistakes or in the pits. Bad bad race. Won't win any fans for F1.

jollygreengiant - 27/6/10 at 01:09 PM

Alosno's NOT happy.

scootz - 27/6/10 at 01:11 PM

I can understand why (and I'm not a Ferrari or Alonso fan!).

stevec - 27/6/10 at 01:12 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jollygreengiant
Alosno's NOT happy.



I liked it when they as good as told him on the radio to stop whinging and get on with it, he's such a tosser.

scootz - 27/6/10 at 01:14 PM

Admittedly, that was rather amusing!

RK - 27/6/10 at 01:16 PM

It must be quite difficult managing the silver spoon, driving, and talking, all at the same time.

Mark Allanson - 27/6/10 at 01:22 PM

Thats the lawn done - If Hamilton had kept his toe down as he entered the lap, he would have been way ahead of the safety car and no incident would have existed, AND he would have been even further ahead of the stroppy one.

Its about time that Ferarri tried to win raced on the black stuff and not in the stewards office

speedyxjs - 27/6/10 at 01:25 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Mark Allanson
Thats the lawn done - If Hamilton had kept his toe down as he entered the lap, he would have been way ahead of the safety car and no incident would have existed, AND he would have been even further ahead of the stroppy one.


I would imagine there was probably a radio conversation going on at the same time which probably caused the confusion.

Mark Allanson - 27/6/10 at 01:27 PM

They couldn't get Hamilton, so they are now trying to penalise ALL the cars ahead of Alonso.

Why don't they just say the Ferarris have wone the race at 10am and then have a 58 lap parade

Jon Ison - 27/6/10 at 01:39 PM

I must say they did him no favours by broadcasting that radio conversation, was that a bottle the marshal picked up or someones dolly ?


Miss !!!! Sir !!!! Miss !!!! Lewis is in my place in the dinner Q...... Miss !!!

Jon Ison - 27/6/10 at 01:43 PM

Nice overtake........ chuckle........ Sauber up the inside.........

Dusty - 27/6/10 at 01:46 PM

Yay. Kobayashi!

scootz - 27/6/10 at 01:49 PM

Banzaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii..............

jollygreengiant - 27/6/10 at 02:00 PM

Now we wait for the official Ferrari International Assistance result.

Oh and before the next comment, I'm glad that Mark Webber is Ok (feelings of De Ja Vue for him).

Its official, Boomeangs DO NOT COME back as proved by Mark Webber.

britishtrident - 27/6/10 at 03:26 PM

Alonso was originally complaining about Hamilton not speeding before the safety car came out, which is the infringement almost every other car in the race is getting penalised for.

Hamiltons penalty was both justified and fair but it was a difficult call which is why the stewards took a long time to reach a decision. Alonso was just very unlucky but he has such a massive grudge against Hamilton and McLaren that he will never see it that way especially as it was a home race for him.

[Edited on 27/6/10 by britishtrident]

craig1410 - 27/6/10 at 03:55 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Mark Allanson
F1 is SO fixed, I have just turned it off - going to do some gardening


I'm not sure how you concluded that Ferrari were assisted today. They lost out more than anyone to the safety car issue and Hamilton's penalty was 20 laps too late to have any effect. Overtaking the medical car should have been punished way more heavily than a simple drive through. He should have got a stop and go at the very least although even that would only have put him back in around where Fernando was after 20 laps so still would not have constituted a proper "penalty".

Also, if you watch Hamilton just before he encountered the medical car, he slowed right down even before he had seen the medical car. I believe he was trying to trap Fernando behind the medical car intentionally. When asked in the press conference what happened, he came out with a rather lame, "I can't remember" and had a look in his eye which I've seen before somewhere. Ah yes, during liar-gate...

I just hope there is some radio conversation between team and Hamilton discussing trapping Alonso. That would give them a very good reason to punish Hamilton further.

By the way, I'm an Alonso fan, maybe you guessed...

jacko - 27/6/10 at 04:03 PM

And British looking at where you live so should support British

Mark Allanson - 27/6/10 at 04:25 PM

"By the way, I'm an Alonso fan, maybe you guessed"

There was a rumour he had one

craig1410 - 27/6/10 at 04:36 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jacko
And British looking at where you live so should support British


Ah but I'm Scottish and, as we all know, Scottish are only British when they win and Scottish when they lose. English sportsmen are English when they win and British when they lose...

Lets hope that Scotland have more luck in the Tennis than Britain had in the football...



[Edited on 27/6/2010 by craig1410]

jacko - 27/6/10 at 04:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
quote:
Originally posted by jacko
And British looking at where you live so should support British


Ah but I'm Scottish and, as we all know, Scottish are only British when they win and Scottish when they lose. English sportsmen are English when they win and British when they lose...

Lets hope that Scotland have more luck in the Tennis than Britain had in the football...



[Edited on 27/6/2010 by craig1410]


Very true

craig1410 - 27/6/10 at 04:48 PM

I've just heard about 5 second time penalties being applied to all 9 under investigation. Having just read the regulations I can't even find anything about 5 sec penalties.

Sounds like a bit of a farce to me!

jacko - 27/6/10 at 04:57 PM

So where does that put Alonso?

craig1410 - 27/6/10 at 05:01 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jacko
So where does that put Alonso?


8th, ahead of Buemi now.

britishtrident - 27/6/10 at 05:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jacko
And British looking at where you live so should support British



Trouble is that reduces us to the level of the Spanish F1 lynch mob.

F1 is so mixed up anyway --- Red Bull is Austrian ? :-)

bassett - 27/6/10 at 07:30 PM

how can alonso be annoyed with that result after he jumped the green light just a few races previous had a drive through and still done well the boy needs to man up and act like the champion he used to be. Well done to Vettel he was barely shown in the coverage and definitely had a quick pace but atleast hamilton still has the top spot and i cant wait to see him at silverstone

craig1410 - 27/6/10 at 07:41 PM

quote:
Originally posted by bassett
how can alonso be annoyed with that result after he jumped the green light just a few races previous had a drive through and still done well the boy needs to man up and act like the champion he used to be. Well done to Vettel he was barely shown in the coverage and definitely had a quick pace but atleast hamilton still has the top spot and i cant wait to see him at silverstone



And did it take 20 laps to issue the drive through penalty on that occasion?
No. If it had done then Alonso might have pulled out enough of a lead to avoid losing any (or as many) places.

That's the main gripe. Why did it take so long.

Craig.

britishtrident - 27/6/10 at 08:50 PM

quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
quote:
Originally posted by bassett
how can alonso be annoyed with that result after he jumped the green light just a few races previous had a drive through and still done well the boy needs to man up and act like the champion he used to be. Well done to Vettel he was barely shown in the coverage and definitely had a quick pace but atleast hamilton still has the top spot and i cant wait to see him at silverstone



And did it take 20 laps to issue the drive through penalty on that occasion?
No. If it had done then Alonso might have pulled out enough of a lead to avoid losing any (or as many) places.

That's the main gripe. Why did it take so long.

Craig.


They also had the other SC infringements to consider.

craig1410 - 27/6/10 at 08:58 PM

quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
quote:
Originally posted by bassett
how can alonso be annoyed with that result after he jumped the green light just a few races previous had a drive through and still done well the boy needs to man up and act like the champion he used to be. Well done to Vettel he was barely shown in the coverage and definitely had a quick pace but atleast hamilton still has the top spot and i cant wait to see him at silverstone



And did it take 20 laps to issue the drive through penalty on that occasion?
No. If it had done then Alonso might have pulled out enough of a lead to avoid losing any (or as many) places.

That's the main gripe. Why did it take so long.

Craig.


They also had the other SC infringements to consider.


Fair enough but all the more reason to stiffen the penalty to a stop and go.

Also, they announced Hamilton's penalty and then later on announced that the others would be looked at after the race. That suggests to me that they were looking at Hamilton's incident first. And let's face it, it wasn't difficult to look at the helicopter camera shot and see the white line in relation to the two cars was it? Why take 30 minutes to decide that?

Bitten hero - 27/6/10 at 09:44 PM

Just love it when he chucks all his toys out of the pram needs to get this chip about hammy off his shoulders

norfolkluego - 27/6/10 at 10:12 PM

quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
quote:
Originally posted by bassett
how can alonso be annoyed with that result after he jumped the green light just a few races previous had a drive through and still done well the boy needs to man up and act like the champion he used to be. Well done to Vettel he was barely shown in the coverage and definitely had a quick pace but atleast hamilton still has the top spot and i cant wait to see him at silverstone



And did it take 20 laps to issue the drive through penalty on that occasion?
No. If it had done then Alonso might have pulled out enough of a lead to avoid losing any (or as many) places.

That's the main gripe. Why did it take so long.

Craig.


They also had the other SC infringements to consider.


'And did it take 20 laps to issue the drive through penalty on that occasion?'

No, for the simple reason that it's a call that's made electronically, sensors on the track and car measured against the starting lights, instant decision, no need for a Stewards opinion. The call on Hamilton was open to opinion, the Stewards obviously didn't all agree which is why it took so long.

craig1410 - 27/6/10 at 10:26 PM

quote:
Originally posted by norfolkluego
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
quote:
Originally posted by bassett
how can alonso be annoyed with that result after he jumped the green light just a few races previous had a drive through and still done well the boy needs to man up and act like the champion he used to be. Well done to Vettel he was barely shown in the coverage and definitely had a quick pace but atleast hamilton still has the top spot and i cant wait to see him at silverstone



And did it take 20 laps to issue the drive through penalty on that occasion?
No. If it had done then Alonso might have pulled out enough of a lead to avoid losing any (or as many) places.

That's the main gripe. Why did it take so long.

Craig.


They also had the other SC infringements to consider.


'And did it take 20 laps to issue the drive through penalty on that occasion?'

No, for the simple reason that it's a call that's made electronically, sensors on the track and car measured against the starting lights, instant decision, no need for a Stewards opinion. The call on Hamilton was open to opinion, the Stewards obviously didn't all agree which is why it took so long.


Oh come on! It was plainly obvious from the overhead camera shot that he overtook the safety car - there was nothing open to opinion! Even the BBC commentators agreed on that. Did you watch the article at the start of the program where they talked about how race control know where every car is right down to the sub-metre level?

As for the jump start, yes they have sensors but the stewards still have to agree on the penalty hence the message which comes up saying that a given incident is under investigation. It is the stewards who investigate!

norfolkluego - 28/6/10 at 06:45 PM

But the race Stewards obviously didn't agree about either the offence or the penalty or they would have called it sooner unless you buy into Alonso's conspiracy theory which is frankly ridiculous, if they (the FIA) were going to fix a race (against Alonso) I doubt very much if they'd pick Valencia to do it, Silverstone maybe. You're also calling into question the integrity of the drivers representitive on the panel (Frentzen was it?), unlikely they'd do that.
Total Ferrari/Alonso paranoia as the FIA is now run a bit more impartially than it used to be.

[Edited on 28/6/10 by norfolkluego]

craig1410 - 28/6/10 at 08:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by norfolkluego
But the race Stewards obviously didn't agree about either the offence or the penalty or they would have called it sooner unless you buy into Alonso's conspiracy theory which is frankly ridiculous, if they (the FIA) were going to fix a race (against Alonso) I doubt very much if they'd pick Valencia to do it, Silverstone maybe. You're also calling into question the integrity of the drivers representitive on the panel (Frentzen was it?), unlikely they'd do that.
Total Ferrari/Alonso paranoia as the FIA is now run a bit more impartially than it used to be.

[Edited on 28/6/10 by norfolkluego]


Or maybe the Stewards just made a mistake! That's more along the lines I was thinking.

Alonso didn't say there was a conspiracy, he said the result was manipulated which is something quite different.

Clearly the race result was manipulated due to the timing of the safety car deployment which was the call of the race director, not the stewards. Charlie Whitings priority was getting medical assistance to Webber I expect. Then it was further affected by the illegal overtake by Hamilton. Then it was further affected by the delay in issuing the penalty, and by the fact the penalty was so lenient. I'm pretty sure that Alonso doesn't believe that Charlie Whiting, McLaren, Hamilton and the Stewards are conspiring against him...

However, the race result was affected by all this and the stewards had an opportunity to redress the balance by issuing a stop and go penalty which to my mind would still be lenient for overtaking a medical car but would take into account the small margin by which the offence occurred. Instead they issued a penalty which was negated by their own slowness to respond. Then of course they rub salt in Alonso's wounds by issuing those stupid 5 second penalties at the end.

THis all sends out a very poor message in a sport where safety is supposed to be a priority.

norfolkluego - 28/6/10 at 09:11 PM

Quotes from Alonso
"It was unfair - we respected the rules and didn't overtake under the yellow flag,"

"I do not know what the penalty should be."

Well if you don't know what the penalty should be you don't know that it's unfair do you.
He's gobbing off because the 'new' Ferrari isn't as quick as he needs it to be, they haven't caught up with Red Bull or McLaren and McLaren have their upgrade coming for Silverstone

craig1410 - 28/6/10 at 09:20 PM

Your nit-picking now I feel...

You don't need to know what a penalty should be in order to know that the penalty given is unfair.

What I can say is that, at the time, I got all excited at the prospect of Hamilton being given a stop and go which would have put him back near Alonso. I was watching the relative times and he was about 26sec ahead of Alonso at the time. That would have given the fans back the race which they almost got due to Alonso closing in on Hamilton before Webber's crash. When I realised he was only doing a drive-through I was pretty gutted because it was a non-penalty.

In his post race interview Alonso was very calm and professional much to the chagrin of his haters I think.

The Ferrari is right up there now with the Red Bull's and McLaren's and I'm sure the season is far from over. Both McLaren an Red Bull drivers are taking points away from each other but Alonso is hardly losing any points to Massa which should give him the edge in "normal" races.

I've got £25 on Alonso at 4 to 1 and don't plan on ripping up my ticket just yet!!

norfolkluego - 28/6/10 at 11:24 PM

Not nitpicking at all, if he'd said the penalty should be X or Y, fine, get the FIA to change the procedure . He's just moaning though, all drivers get disadvantaged at some point by safety cars, he got caught this time.
And if I may say so, Alonso moaning about someone getting an advantage from a safety car is a bit rich, Singapore, Piquet, crash, Alonso unexpected win, remember? not as he knew anything about it, Martin Brundle didn't call him Teflonso for nothing.

Not a fan of Mr Half Second a lap as is probably obvious. Great driver but a bit of a paranoid obnoxious snake in my opinion.

[Edited on 28/6/10 by norfolkluego]

craig1410 - 28/6/10 at 11:28 PM

We're never going to agree on any of this so what's the point.

Personally I'd like to see some proper racing. Between unexpected rain, unexpected lack of rain, safety car issues and various reliability issues I don't think we have seen the sort of wheel to wheel racing that we used to see in years gone by. Let's hope that Silverstone is a straightforward, good quality race!

norfolkluego - 28/6/10 at 11:50 PM

Well we agree on that

craig1410 - 29/6/10 at 07:50 AM

Hurray