Evening All...

I live in a property that is owned by a housing assocciation,

in jan 2010 we had quite a bad fire at home which meant we were rehoused for 7 months while the repairs were carried out. I have contents insurance as i understood the building insurance was included in rent.....

however I have received a letter to say, as the fire was due to neglect (cigarette) I am liable for the full cost of repairs,
somewhere in the region of £60k!!!!
they advise me to pass this on to my insurance company, as its the weekend and I cant contact them, but as I have contents only surely I am not insured for the building.

anyone got any advice...
cant afford to run to spain either!!

thanks Gavin

I dont have an answer, but do hope you can resolve this soon!!
steve

Is it completely rented or is it shared ownership ?

Well i would have thought first port of call was ringing and finding out if you have actually got buildings insurance as part of the rent...

Contents is only contents and as you seem aware it wont cover the building repairs.

completly housing assocciation,

we pay 100% rent so no housing benefit etc



thanks Steve

[Edited on 3/9/11 by gavin174]

I will ring them monday Ben

I was hoping amoungst the massive we may have a housing officer or similar, who could stop me have a completely sleep free weekend!!!

You maybe need to be digging out your agreement at this point.

And most definitely need to talk to Citizen's Advice. They have always been helpful for me and others I know.

Hope you get it sorted mate.

JB

Not My line of business, but i would of thought that to protect there property they should have some form of insurance to cover themselves, if not then it should have been made very clear that you needed to insure the property so i would check your agreement. and perhaps i owness should have been on them to check the building is covered.

Andy

I have just done a Google for "buildings insurance housing association". The hits seems to come back that it totally depends on the company you are with.


Some do include it in the Rent and some don't


EDIT: but it does seem to be a "bolt on" that you have to pay if it is included

[Edited on 3/9/11 by karlak]

[Edited on 3/9/11 by karlak]

[Edited on 3/9/11 by karlak]

i cant say for sure but a house i own and rent out, when the insurance expired, they mortgage company found out and billed me for insuring it themselves. If you rent it, i find it HIGHLY unlikely that neither landlord nor mortgage company have it insured. Myself, id tell them to wee off.

And stop smoking, its an expensive habit

[Edited on 3/9/11 by JoelP]

thanks all for the quick replies..

I need to speak to the H/Assocciation monday..

cant find the agreement, the original obviously went up in flames and we have not received a new one!!

I think they are trying their luck -just tell them you don't have insurance or any money or any assets, and if that fails just say your first name is Mohammed

I would also give these guys a call. Perhaps before your Housing Association?


http://www.housing-ombudsman.org.uk/


It may well be that you should have insured it yourself for buildings..... However, I would like to see a document that I signed that made me aware of this 'fact'. If you have and it was in the small print, then perhaps the people in the link above can help ?

surely the word "neglect" is wrong??? it was an "accident" wasn,t it?

I,m no legal person but would have thought that the difference between the 2 meanings in law is quite helpful in your case .

Hope you get it sorted .

cheers
andy

Just as a thought, why would it behoove you to have insurance on a building you don't own?

it was deffinately an accident..



[Edited on 3/9/11 by gavin174]

I suspect it is the insurance company trying to get money. Either that or the HA self-insure.
Get some proper advice. Check the contract carefully, see what your responsibilities are/were. I doubt they can actually do much, unless you have been daft enough to say the fire is your fault. What did the fire report say??

Anyway, proper advice is what you need, expect it to cost too

My home is with a housing assoc & I,m not required to have buildings insurance.

Thats my point.....it WAS an accident,

If you had not reported a leaking pipe that suddenly got worse & then caused major damage to the property then that would be neglect of your tennants aggreement.

I,d be hot footing it down to the C.A.B. with a copy of your tennancy aggreement ( maybe borrow one from a neighbour that is with the same housing assoc as you have lost yours in the fire ).

cheers
andy

I suspect that the Housing Association has insurance, but is probably having a problem with the insurance payout due to the 'cause' of the fire.

What does the fire report say - you / the insurers can ask the fire and rescue service for a copy (fee payable).

Regards

Wyn

I,ve just realised something....you say the fire happened in Jan 2010, you were rehoused for 7 months for the repairs to be done ,
so that takes you upto august 2010..............why has it taken them 12/13 months ( now sept 2011 ) to send you this letter stating that you must pay the damages ????? I,d be telling them to "sling their hook".

They ( H.A ) are trying to pull a fast one IMO.

As others have said, get some good legal advice , it,ll be worth the cost compaired to the repair bill & sleepless nights.

cheers
andy

The letter basically says........

we are the loss adjusters instructed by AVIVA to investigate and deal with an insurance claim submitted by "housing association" for fire damage

from the imformation we hold in our possesion, we understand that the fire was a result of negligently discarded smoking materials.

given the circumstances it is our principle intention to hold you responsible for their outlay"




to me that admits the housing association have buildings insurance... or am i misunderstanding it


[Edited on 3/9/11 by gavin174]

I should add we have at no point had any contact from the h/association to say we have to pay for the repairs..

this has come from a chartered loss adjuster. (who has spelt our surname wrong on the letter)

Yes, it sounds like they are insured, but the insurer are refusing to pay out, or have paid out and fancy their chances of suing you for some portion of their loss.

It's irrelevant in that case if you have buildings insurance or not, as your insurer would likely pull the same trick.

C.A.B. on Monday would be my advise.

[Edited on 3/9/11 by iank]

please forgive me....

I have been sitting here relieving the stress with a few beers......

but just had a thought.

didnt the Queen have a similar thing when Windsor caught fire

do you think if go on national TV and explain my plight people will agree to a tax increase to pay for it.

I will shut up now!!!!

Sorry to hear of your woes you must be worried sick, I am afraid to say that the question of whether the Housing association had buildings insurance is a red herring. When a person has insurance and makes a claim the insurer can step into their shoes and sue anybody who caused the claim to be made - the fancy word is "subrogation" - don't try that after a beer!

Nobody can be sued for a pure "accident" but an accident is something that taking reasonable precautions could not have prevented. If reasonable precautions are not taken then this is "negligence". If your wife fell asleep when you were out of the house then I very much doubt whether you could be said to be negligent. On the other hand I am afraid that your wife may be in some difficulty. Falling asleep with a ciggy gets close to negligence. Failing to ensure a ciggy is out...not much better. As said above the fire report is an important document. You are not responsible for your wife unless some clause in your tenancy agreement says so.

If ever there was a case where you need professional advice this is it (you may discern some vested interest - but ignore that). The ideal letter in these circumstances is probably along the lines of - "We do not have a pot to wee in so sod off" - on headed notepaper that sounds so much better! Most Solicitors will give you 30mins for £75.00 - a bargain!!

Best of luck

so it would appear that the HA definately had building cover via AVIVA and have claimed and likely been paid out already as well.
AVIVA by the looks of it have appointed the loss adjuster to try and get some of their money back from you, definate trip to CAB on monday morning.
In some ways the amount they are claiming from you works in your favour. If they wanted £5k i think it likely they may hound you for it, the fact its £60k and you dont have it may, upon receipt of a nicely worded CAB or solicitors letter make them rethink their chances of getting their money and i suspect they may well decide that as you dont own property they would be throwing good money after bad in trying to persue you for it.

Good Luck

Yep, the insurers are after the money they have paid out to the HA.
All seems rather nasty on their part. I can't see the reasoning unless it was arson or deliberate, which I guess is the same thing.

I would get that legal advice, and also let the HA know that aviva are harassing you. They may well be unaware.

quote:

---

Originally posted by gavin174
I should add we have at no point had any contact from the h/association to say we have to pay for the repairs..

this has come from a chartered loss adjuster. (who has spelt our surname wrong on the letter)

---

I am a City Council Housing Duty Officer and have rehoused 6 families in the past through fire, mostly due to the bloke having a drink and leaving the chip pan on or the womans bath time tea candles falling over. All of which could have been prevented
....BUT we have never billed them for it. We would if for example they trashed the doors and window deliberately etc.
Sounds like the "loss adjusters" are trying it on. After all the HA had insurance and it paid out... Thats what its for.

Andi

ps hope you get sorted

The loss adjuster is a private company, employed by AVIVA to minimise payout, and operate on a (healthy %) commission if they can recover the insurance co's payup. They're fishing for info, to try and ascertain what insurance you had, and to what level. DOn't tell them a thing, even about the contents insurance. A judge is the only one who can order you to give the info.

I've been through this, albeit many years ago.

The misspelling will be overlooked in court, although the judge may give the adjusters a telling off for inaccuracy.

Tell the adjusters that you had no insurance on the building(but don't tell lies ), and living in a housing asscn house you quite obviously have no assets. Also check your tenancy agreement as others have pointed out, and if no requirement is in writing for you to cover their building, then they can go jump.

CAB is the place for good quick free advice, as so many have put.

Cheers,
Nev.