Running for cover...
Hi,
I'm looking for information on engines used in certain ford cars and how suitable they are for a seven replica (if they an be used with type 9,
suitable dimensions, power output compaired to other engines, availability + cost etc).
1990's rs2000
1990's and 1980's xr3i
escort gti
1.8 and 2.0 mondeo
Id also like to know which are zetec and which are cvh engines.
Thanks, David
Newer RS2000's had I4 dohc motors-150 bhp.
XR3's are cvh's i believe-110 ish bhp
GTi's-maybe Zetecs??
Mondeos are Zetec-2 litres are 130 bhp.
All Ford engines share the same gearbox bolt pattern so the type 9 (sierra 5 speed) will bolt to all.
Pintos are a good choice as they are plentiful-cheap and easy to tune-lots of go faster goodies available and good power can be had.CVH's are
crap IMHO-better with a Zetec or Pinto.
Hope that helps.
Yep, agree with that JJM, only other thing is that the I4 engine is better for power than both, but also heavier than both!! It is easily tweaked to the 190hp area by addition of carbs (or throttle bodies) and cams. Rally versions of this engine were making 200hp ish on a single throttle butterfly standard inlet manifold, and multi-throttle body versions on the "kit car" rally class as was were making in the region of 280hp so it is quite good, but unfortunately actually slightly heavier than the Pinto!
Really boils down to either fitting a CVH 1600 or pre 95 Zetec 1800, after mid 95 the emmission regs start to complicate things too much.
Fitting a carb CVH with a distributer is relatively simple and power can be stretched a low cost -- loads of CVH goodies cheap on eBay.
The later CVH engines get more complex to fit and don't give any more ultimate power. Because it needs some specialist parts fitting a Zetec to
rwd car is yet more complex expensive but it will give another 40bhp over the CVH.
The good news is if you fit a CVH replacing it with a Zetec is relative dwaddle as the Zetec bottom end is just a super heavy duty evolution of the
CVH, so problems like engine mounts and starter are already solved.
What ever you don't fit a Pinto a simply dreadful overweight over sized engine best left to the history books with 1172 Ford sidevalve.
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
What ever you don't fit a Pinto a simply dreadful overweight over sized engine best left to the history books with 1172 Ford sidevalve.
Why? He is right about them, hideous things out of the seventies.
Sometimes I think people forget this is the LOCOST builders site, If I had the cash yeah I'd get a zetec but that would be a min of £300 for a manky install. My pinto was free.
Agree, set your budget then ask what engine is best, don't forget bike options.
MK, LUEGO and AVON none of which are Locost or Lowcost get a mention on this site.
quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
... only other thing is that the I4 engine is better for power than both, but also heavier than both!! ....280hp so it is quite good, but unfortunately actually slightly heavier than the Pinto!
You have been misinformed!!! The I4 is NOT the Duratec!!!!!!!
The I4 is the 16v version of the Sierra Twincam 8v engine, and is fitted to 2.0 Scorpio, 2.3 Scorpio, Galaxy and of course the Mk 5/6 escort
rs2000!!!!!!!
The Duratec is indeed much lighter, but not yet all that cheap (though I must admit it is cheap for a brand new engine!!)
Meant to mention, the I4 has the same cast iron block with cast in water pump and oil pump casings as the Sierra twin cam 8v engine.
gjn200 what can I say, you paid what they're worth.
In terms of power output the Pinto is poor. I'd rather have a Crossflow, they're cheap to buy, cheap to fix and cheap to modify. They are
also small and easy to fit in a Seven rep.
NSDev,
I see where your coming from with the heayweight inline 4 engine, I was under the impression that I4 was the project name for the Ford/Mazda
globalised engine project as mentioned in I4 engine
Perhaps the name is being recycled...
Ahhhhh, now I am learning too!! Certainly the engine I am talking about was referred to years ago (before 2001) as the I4. Maybe the Duratec is an
alloy block version of the same engine? It did always seem strange to me, because the 2.0 16v I4 engine was launched in the UK in the escort RS2000 in
1992-93 (I think wasn't it?) which was at a similar time to the zetec 16v, so there always seemed to be a conflict to me somwhere!! The I4 was
certainly designed much more power friendly than the Zetec, apparently the I4's head design was based on the Cosworth BDA.
As you say, maybe I4 is just the name given to an engine until they can think of something else!! (Pinto was only that cos is was fitted in one
first!!)
Nice one!!
Nat.
Personally i still think the Pinto is cheaper to get power from-you'd need to spend a wedge of cash to get to a standard pinto output-110 bhp
ish. out of a x-flow.
But on the downside-which is a big downside-the Pinto is very heavy-which sort of defeats the object of power to weight.
Forgot to add theyre also a lot more torquey-which is more desirable than outright bhp.
[Edited on 3/5/04 by JJM]
A lot of people tells that the I4 ( RS 2000 ) engine is heavier and even the pinto.
Is there any info on the correct weight ??
Many thanks
AvonBelgium
quote:
Originally posted by Tblue
gjn200 what can I say, you paid what they're worth.
In terms of power output the Pinto is poor. I'd rather have a Crossflow, they're cheap to buy, cheap to fix and cheap to modify. They are also small and easy to fit in a Seven rep.
As i would like to get the kit running as quick and hasstle free as possible i might use the engine from the donor. Would a 1.6 cvh from a sierra be
the same found in the escorts, orions etc?
Also what power would this give as standard?
Ford...{snigger}
Running for cover...
Yes the Sierra 1600 CVH is basically the same as the escort etc ones, except for the obvious RWD bits. Service bits etc are much the same, no need to
worry you won't come across nasty surprises with this engine, as a way to get up and running reliably and cheaply I cannot fault the idea.
BMW...........snigger........make sure you get some nice hard front springs!
Nuts to that...get a proper engine
Quaife 2 litre V8....made from two Yamaha YZF1000 engines on a common crank.
200bhp with a siz speed sequential 'box and it only weighs 70kgs :> :>
OK, well to be fair that is a pretty nice motor (take it you saw it at the Autosport show last year too!)
but a bit out of the price range of the average "locoster"!!!!!!!
yeah I know...but its sweet, and seems perfectly designed for a locost.....anyone got a spare £20k for an engine?
quote:
Originally posted by Metal Hippy
Ford...{snigger}
Running for cover...
German engines without workshop manuals....even more laughs.
hint hint mate.
You'll find I have the Haynes manual (yeah, I know that's a joke in itself) but I also have on the way the TIS on cd...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2474947535&category=10374&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWN%3AIT&rd=1
Bit by bit I'm putting together every bit of info I need and more.
Anybody needs to know about the X5 gimme a shout once I have it..
A CVH Sierra is likely to have an MT75 gearbox, the Type 9 from an earrlier Sierra is likely to be a better choice.
My build started before Sierra single donor became possible so my spec is a collection of Escort I Escort 2 Escor3/Orion, Sierra and Cortina.
My engine choice was a 1600 cvh from an 89 Orion , which is basically early carb Xr3 spec but with unleaded valve seats. mated to a Sierra type 9
gearbox via a Sierra CVH 1800 flywheel, starter is from a Sierra.
For CVH info see http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/cvh.htm
http://www.sylva.co.uk/cvh.html
Loads of good info here too -- Zetec but has good drawings of engine mounts for Ford FWD unit in a RWD car
http://cyclops.dmu.ac.uk/tiger/paul/zetec.html
[Edited on 4/5/04 by britishtrident]
britishtrident- Im seriously thinking of doing the same as you. I want to get a sierra donor with type 9 and a 1.6cvh engine from another car. Or
perhaps a 1.6cvh sierra and buy the box from a breakers. It depends on the sierra's i can find.
Are the 1.6 cvh found in sierra's the same spec as those in the escort?
Thanks for your help!
David
I've only ever actually seen the 1.8 CVH in Sierra, I know the 1.6 exists but they were only at the very end of Sierra production and I think? the difference in price between the 1.6 and 1.8 was minimal.
got to have my say.......
Pinto -
Overweight ? - is a couple of kilos really that much in the long run ?
Size ? - not a real problem for most chassis
Cost ? - Usually free or damn near it
Power ? - standard 2linj gives 130hp easily, a couple of hundred gets you above 150hp....
Strength ? the pinto is a solid peice of machinery - simple yes but strong, it can take a lot of abuse!
Also the Pinto forms the basis of the Veritable cosworth engine.... and therefore is a (realtively) easy swap ltaer on! (thats what I intend!)
Given all that I would defend the Pinto as an excellent choice for a 'lowcost locost'
To respond to someone else's comment - is my Avon really not a locost just because I bought the chassis? (NOT a full kit)
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
I've only ever actually seen the 1.8 CVH in Sierra, I know the 1.6 exists but they were only at the very end of Sierra production and I think? the difference in price between the 1.6 and 1.8 was minimal.
BritishTrident is right, the 1600 CVH is very rare, I never really understood the model range at the end of the sierra lifespan. My brother had a 1600
Azura sierra and these had the 1600 pinto in, even his at K reg! (We soon took it out and put a nice rally spec 2.0 in though!! with poly bushes and
decent springs and shocks and with the 1600's diff ratio made quite a rapid car!! (in sierra terms))
1600 CVH Sierra engine is much the same as the FWD version but does differ in the inlet manifold area. The head has an extra water outlet port and
inlet gasket is different. Payen etc list the same headset but they have got it wrong.
It's only a detail but furthers the question as to why Ford bothered!
Pinto is king, what else can you get for the money with that sort of power thats dead reliable and can be thrown away if it blows up. i'm a
mechanic by trade and wouldnt have a zetec given (unless i had a fetish for coolant leaks and running problems), plus if youre goona spend hundreds on
an engine for whats basically a part time toy then why not just buy an elise and have done with it. while im on one cvh rs turbo engine fine anything
else pants ... arse !
[Edited on 7/5/04 by muzz]
i'll second that, as i said to a friend just yesterday, its free, simple and reliable. if 120bhp is all you want there is no better engine, unless weight is a problem.
thanxs thought i was right !
Pinto is king ? next you will be suggesting fitting a 2.5 sidevalve V8 out of a Ford Pilot.
Come to think of it that is a better choice han the Pinto.
Your right, but they are simple, cheap, almost guaranteed to pass the SVA, need very little adaption to the chassis and ensure a speedier build.
What you do after the SVA is another matter, I'm already looking at how to fit an Alfa 2.0TSpark to a type9 - now that IS an engine
agree ther thats what is in the wfes car