..in the UK?
2000£?
More like £3k
quote:
Originally posted by phelpsa
More like £3k
yes its fair, remember the drysump kit is required too, make sure it has all the engine numbers intact still
quote:
Originally posted by colmaccoll
yes its fair, remember the drysump kit is required too, make sure it has all the engine numbers intact still
quote:
Originally posted by colmaccoll
just a reminder in case you didnt know, best of luck with the project though - im sure it will be
i think people tend to use dry sumps cos its such a damn expensive engine. with the cheapies (fireblade and zx9) it isnt really important if the engine pops.
i struggled to find the money for my dry sump kit so there would be no chance of me being able to buy another engine if mine failed
i have a westfield baffled wet sump for a busa £70 if you want it
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
i think people tend to use dry sumps cos its such a damn expensive engine. with the cheapies (fireblade and zx9) it isnt really important if the engine pops.
I have an unused powertec baffled sump to fit the busa if you need one. Only fitted and then removed without use due to being scared and fitting a dry
sump
Gripenland: I imported a 2003 Busa engine & associated gubbins from the US. It was almost new, totally le-git, & had only done 1500 miles. All
in, including air freight, taxes, etc. etc. it was £2200 - Bargain!
I know of one other person (who I supplied my US contact's details to) who imported a 2004 Busa engine for £2400 IIRC.
Email me if you want the US salvage dealer's details.
quote:
Email me if you want the US salvage dealer's details.
Gripenland: Right...I understand now. Between £2.5K & £3K, depending on mileage/condition - possibly nearer 2.5 as it's a 99.
adamhay mate you have a pm re: the engine supplier in the states
I am looking for a busa engine myself but 2500 is just the wrong side of m budget at moment) for reasons below
I’m really keeping my eye open for a bargain, but worried about geitng a crashed engine and the engine running on its side, a quick search on line has
shown a few kitcars that have had engine trouble due to this, so its goto be cheep (keep some cash for a just in case) or a bike that’s never been
dropped and sell parts on, or with some sort of warranty for a few months.
Anyhows, drop me a line with the details mate cheers
Ry
quote:
Originally posted by catflap
I am looking for a busa engine myself but 2500 is just the wrong side of m budget at moment) for reasons below
quote:
Originally posted by OX
i struggled to find the money for my dry sump kit so there would be no chance of me being able to buy another engine if mine failed
i have a westfield baffled wet sump for a busa £70 if you want it
well i think the dax rush uses the original busa sump with a baffle plate and they have no problems ,from what iv heard.
im not sure on the one i have ,never fitted it,i just worried myself sick wondering if it was worth the risk not to have a proper dry sump kit.
sorry that wasnt much help was it
My Dax has the standard wet sump with the drain plug moved to the side to get another inch or so clearance and a flat baffle plate between the sump
and the lower case. Don't know if it works as there's only a very few places where I'll need it without using slicks.
Holeshot have a new flat sump, holds an extra litre of oil and comes with a couple of baffle plates, one for the engine and one that goes in the
gearbox somewhere. Used by a few grasstrack racers and they say they've not had a problem but I can't see grasstrack cars generating the
cornering force of a 7 on a track.
Saw your video Ox, nice
the reason they stay together in the grass track cars is they are mounted in their original orientation not like the seven
the more I try and find out about this the more confused I get! I still cant get my head around what is ok!
I sorta guess that if money is no object, then dry sump is the way to go. However is it really needed? Some seem to say yes, others no.
Duncan Cowper whos running a turbo busa rush is using a baffled wet sump but, (and forgive me if Im wrong here!), Im not sure that he pays for stuff
that goes bang!
My car will be used on the road, when it gets built,(!), but in the main its gonna be a track car. I also want to compete in the time attack
series.
Dunno what to do!!!
And yes I do realise that Im the first to post on this thread for over a year!!!
[Edited on 5/9/06 by iiyama]
Get in touch with Jack at Holeshot Racing who do a nice aluminium billet sump with a swinging oil pick-up for the Hayabusa. It's a great piece of
kit. They're not cheap but nowhere near as much as a full dry sump setup.
Phil
Thing is Ive heard peeps say that the maching on these swing arm pickups is not all that great. Not specifically the holeshot unit mind.
And there fore there is a chance to pull air in rather then oil.
Thats the trouble, getting all sorts of stories!!! Nothing definative.
I've only seen the Holeshot Racing oil pick-up at first hand and it looks to be very well made and swivelled very smoothly. I'm sure
Jack wouldn't use them or supply them unless he was confident they were up to the job. Give him a ring and voice your concerns if you are
worried.
Phil
I guess my concern is that dry sumping is pretty much bullet prrof, where as all the other methods are sort of compromises for a bike engine being turned through 90 degress and then put under conditions is what never meant to be in!!!!!
I've heard of engines blowing with dry sumps fitted, usually down to hoses coming off. It's easy to get hung up on the issue of whether to
dry sump or not. Regardless of what you fit, there are no surefire guarantees. You pay your money, take your choice and hope it was the right one.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
Phil
well I have seen some dry sump systems with hoses held on by hose clamps. The TTS one for a start. However I was looking at this......
http://s114.photobucket.com/albums/n251/vm1451/?action=view¤t=image416.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch1
Much safer, (imo), aeroquip fittings.
[Edited on 6/9/06 by iiyama]
If your pockets are deep enough, go for it.......
Phil
I spoke to my neighbour yesterday, who own a garage specialising in bikes and bike engines - he sourced a full crashed Busa for £800! And if there are more going, i am at the top of the list! Apparently there was not another useable part on the bike (all forks, wheels etc were trashed) but still, that is BLOODY cheap!
I spoke to my neighbour yesterday, who owns a garage specialising in bikes and bike engines - he sourced a full crashed Busa for £800! And if there are more going, i am at the top of the list! Apparently there was not another useable part on the bike (all forks, wheels etc were trashed) but still, that is BLOODY cheap!
But if I use it in a (R1) mini etc, would it still "need" drysumping, or would it be close enough to a bike ( that leans in the corners)
Cheers
you could possibly get away with a baffle sump or sump with mobile pickup in straight ahead configuration...
The problem with that sump is that it dosent clear the Dax chassis.
Ill think Ill dry sump it. Peice of mind for future upgrades and a small power increase to boot.
quote:
Originally posted by iiyama
well I have seen some dry sump systems with hoses held on by hose clamps. The TTS one for a start.
Yes indeedy!
Have to bow to your far superior knowledge on how they work Chris. My learning curve is still pretty near vertical.
And just to confirm this......
Arnt those 2 pipes connected to the oil pump? So surely there will be some pressure in there?
[Edited on 10/9/06 by iiyama]
LOL, I don't know a great deal bout dry sumps either, mostly only from my mate's experience with his busa sump.
That bit you see there is an oil pump yep, but I dont think its pressurised. I think all that pump does is scavenge oil, ie just sucking oil out of
the sump into the tank.
From the tank the oil is then fed into the original bike's oil pump which creates the pressure stage. You can add an additional stage to the
external pump you see there (making it a 3 stage pump) which does the pressure stage and so removes the bike's own pump from the system, but I
don't think this one has that by the looks of it.
So if that pump just scavenges oil back to the sump tank, and the internal pump creates pressure within the engine, how does the oil get from the sump
tank into the engine in the first place?? Surely dosent rely in gravity as this would lead to the problem Im trying to avoid, ie surge....or have I
got the wrong end of the stick??
What system is your mate using? And why?
The internal bike pump sucks oil into its inlet side, the same as it would suck oil up the pickup in a wet sump system. So rather than sucking oil
from the sump, it sucks it from the dry sump tank, but because the tank can hold more oil than the engine can in a wet sump system, and its tall and
narrow so holds a good head of oil at all times, you should never get to a point where the tank is anywhere near low enough to allow air down the
pickup.
Thats the theory anyway
I think Bazzer is using a mix n match system, it was originally supplied with his Westfield which uses a Pace sump, but he's had modified to add the pressure stage.
ok.....think I understand that. So I guess then oil returns to the tank through the oil cooler?
Nope, the oil returns to the tank via the scavenge pump
ie
Tank > pressure stage pump > round engine / cooler > drain to sump > scavenge pump sucks it up > back to tank
Scavenge pump sends oil via the oil cooler (usually) to the tank..
If you have a stage 2 pace kit, (TTS for Hayabusa) then the pump is also the pressure pump and you have to manually set the pressure to keep it within
tolerance so is slightly more complex than the stage 1 kit which is pure scavenge...
Ah! So those pipes are under pressure then??
I thought that its 2 stage because there are two scavenge circuits (ie one either side of the sump to pick up oil from two different areas), thats
certainly the case with my mate's setup. If it was one of each though then yes one would be under pressure, not the other.
I also wasnt aware that the scavenge side (which has a lot of air in it) pumps through the oil cooler, I wouldnt think that would be the most
efficient way of cooling the oil is it?
pass........
wouldnt have thought so....
I checked with my mate Bazzer how his is rigged up, and his cooler is in the pressure stage as I described but you can also do it as G Man mentioned.
He said there's pros and cons of both, if its in the pressure stage then cooling is slightly more efficient but you can get a slight pressure
drop across the circuit so not ideal if you want to maximise pressure from your pump. If you have an external pressure stage though, you can control
pressure more easily so possibly less of a concern.
Putting the cooler in the scavenge you obviously dont have this pressure drop, but cooling isnt quite as efficient because of aeriation, so I guess
the ideal positioning of it depends on whether pressure or cooling is your biggest concern.
I also mentioned the TTS system and according to him it is a 2 stage scavenge using the bikes pump for pressure, so neither of those hoses would be
under pressure.
ok bud, very informative. Be interesting to know if the Big CC one is the same. It is definatly cheaper, although looks to be better made, also includes the water pump in the price.