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when did they start build midengine kitcars?

kitman - 3/5/13 at 03:21 PM

I'm wondered if there is a list of existing midengine kitcars?
Or are most one offs?

loggyboy - 3/5/13 at 03:43 PM

Sylva Riot, R1ot & Mojo(now owned by someone else IIRC)
Sylva J15
Mk Midi
VStorm
Hawk Stratos

Im sure there are lots more

adithorp - 3/5/13 at 03:49 PM

Don't know of an existing list but...

Sylva R1ot, J15, J16, Vectis, Mojo (formerly Sylva but made by someone else now)
MK Engineering Midi
MEV Sonic7, Rocket, Mevabusa
Ultima
Gardner Douglas T70
Spire
Radical
AB Performance Sabre
MK Stealth
SDR V-storm

Will that do for starters?

Then there's the replicas of Stratos, GT40 ..and ferraris

[Edited on 3/5/13 by adithorp]

garyo - 3/5/13 at 04:14 PM

The old GTM coupe etc?

nick205 - 3/5/13 at 05:16 PM

Probably easier to think of it in terms of declining numbers of cheap/suitable RWD donors. This has prompted kit makers to look at FWD donors, which lend themselves to mid engine RWD installations.

britishtrident - 3/5/13 at 05:37 PM

quote:
Originally posted by garyo
The old GTM coupe etc?

Yes Cox GTM was the first followed a few years later by the Mini A series engined Davrians, Davrian also used a Fiesta power pack in the Dragon version of the Mk8.

Of course the Renault powered Lotus Europa was sold as a kit to avoid purchase tax.

SPYDER - 3/5/13 at 06:44 PM

Talon Motorsport - 3/5/13 at 06:52 PM

Why did they stop making this?
[img][/img]

swanny - 3/5/13 at 08:45 PM

Rights were sold to Westfield, they ave been promising a new model for the last couple of years

Volvorsport - 3/5/13 at 09:01 PM

davrian started with imp engines........in 67 , bout same time as gtm....

daniel mason - 3/5/13 at 09:04 PM

to add to list.
malin 5exi,
gtm libra,
mnr lmp

Dingz - 3/5/13 at 09:18 PM

Even Richard Stewart of Robin Hood built a couple of rear metro engined 7s. not sure if any exist now though.

whitestu - 3/5/13 at 09:36 PM

Didn't they make a Clan Crusader with an Alfa Boxer engine in the 80s?
Think that was actually rear engined though.
Stu

inkafone - 3/5/13 at 10:30 PM

Deep Sanderson & Unipower where some of the first

[Edited on 3/5/13 by inkafone]

bi22le - 3/5/13 at 11:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
Don't know of an existing list but...

Sylva R1ot, J15, J16, Vectis, Mojo (formerly Sylva but made by someone else now)
MK Engineering Midi
MEV Sonic7, Rocket, Mevabusa
Ultima
Gardner Douglas T70
Spire
Radical
AB Performance Sabre
MK Stealth
SDR V-storm

Will that do for starters?

Then there's the replicas of Stratos, GT40 ..and ferraris

[Edited on 3/5/13 by adithorp]

Gardner Douglas T70 is still one of my favorite kit cars and watching the you tube vid of it at the ring shows its a pretty special car.

Acc8braman - 4/5/13 at 05:45 AM

kitman - 4/5/13 at 08:47 AM

quote:
Originally posted by SPYDER

Which one is this white car?
I like that, looks a bit simular as the one I try to build.

deeceee09 - 4/5/13 at 09:08 AM

Ginetta G15

kitman - 4/5/13 at 09:14 AM

I've been looking at GTM cars.
Did they had atube chassis, or just body?
I build a chassis looking to a TVR we have and just wondering how they are been made in the verry past.

[Edited on 4/5/13 by kitman]

ceebmoj - 4/5/13 at 09:20 AM

quote:
Originally posted by kitman
I've been looking at GTM cars.
Did they had atube chassis, or just body?

Thay are a fiberglass monocope. With a frame that bolts to each end . I would like one as some point.

[Edited on 4/5/13 by ceebmoj]

Volvorsport - 4/5/13 at 09:22 AM

the white car is a midtec spyder..... designed by lee noble.

cox gtm , ginetta , clan , davrian were all pure grp monocoques ....

40inches - 4/5/13 at 09:33 AM

Tornado GT40, for 30 years

kitman - 4/5/13 at 09:58 AM

The midtec chassis is a nice example of using triangles at midtec.nl
Been looking to all the cars of above lists.
Intresting.

[Edited on 4/5/13 by kitman]

kitman - 28/6/13 at 08:57 PM

It should be nice if I could find an older, '80s road legal midengine car, or at least some paperwork.

blakep82 - 28/6/13 at 08:59 PM

Mini marcos?

ken555 - 28/6/13 at 09:03 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ceebmoj

quote:
Originally posted by kitman
I've been looking at GTM cars.
Did they had atube chassis, or just body?

Thay are a fiberglass monocope. With a frame that bolts to each end . I would like one as some point.

[Edited on 4/5/13 by ceebmoj]

The GTM Coupe has a Steel (Rust) chassis, the bodywork is unstressed.

deeceee09 - 28/6/13 at 09:05 PM

Mini Marcos, front engined and front wheel drive.

blakep82 - 28/6/13 at 09:17 PM

quote:
Originally posted by deeceee09
Mini Marcos, front engined and front wheel drive.

Ah well, you win some you lose some.
Always assumed it was rear rwd.

kitman - 28/6/13 at 09:25 PM

mid-engine?

jeffw - 28/6/13 at 09:31 PM

G12 always wanted one

kitman - 29/6/13 at 11:04 AM

expensive!

kitman - 23/2/14 at 02:06 PM

I like verry much the Cox GTM.
There is one for sale, 4100 GBP, not ready.
expensive?

Sam_68 - 23/2/14 at 02:35 PM

quote:
Originally posted by kitman
I like verry much the Cox GTM.
There is one for sale, 4100 GBP, not ready.
expensive?

If by 'not ready' you mean unregistered, then yes, that's a bit on the pricey side - I'd say that Ł3K is closer to the mark, since they are an old design and you would expect a few problems getting them through the IVA assessment and registration process here in the UK.

Ł4,100 would be reasonable for a finished and registered car.

Can you register kit cars easily in Belgium? A number of years ago, I sold a Raffo Tipo 12 (another mid-engined kit car) to a buyer in Belgium, and I seem to recall that he intended to keep the car registered in the UK as it was difficult in Belgium?

Edited to add: if the car is for you, you might want to trying it for size before you commit to purchase (you won't be able to test drive it if it's unfinished, I don't suppose): the original GTM's are quite compact, and some larger/taller people find them a little cramped and claustraphobic.

[Edited on 23/2/14 by Sam_68]

kitman - 23/2/14 at 03:44 PM

It's been on the road in UK.
But needs to build up again.
The size will be a problem I think.
I like the shape of it.
A car registered in UK can get Belgian papers etc., since a few years.One good thing about Europe to me!

kitman - 24/2/14 at 01:13 PM

Been looking again at that list, but most midengine cars are race cars.
I am looking for older midengine roadcars like the Cox GTM.
So if someone has any ideas

[Edited on 24/2/14 by kitman]

jeffw - 24/2/14 at 01:50 PM

Technically a lot of these are almost/are rear engined (J15/Riot etc) while a lot of front engined kits are more mid-engined than the rear-engined cars (if you follow me).

iank - 24/2/14 at 02:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
Technically a lot of these are almost/are rear engined (J15/Riot etc) while a lot of front engined kits are more mid-engined than the rear-engined cars (if you follow me).

I've never been able to understand where the idea that a transverse engine in front of the driveshafts is considered "rear" engined comes from. All I can think is some people either have a different way of measuring things or have never looked at a transverse engine and gearbox.

Even a mini engine with the gearbox under the block has the diff behind the engine.

kitman - 24/2/14 at 05:00 PM

Originally posted by jeffw
Technically a lot of these are almost/are rear engined (J15/Riot etc) while a lot of front engined kits are more mid-engined than the rear-engined cars (if you follow me).

Yes I know what you mean, it is realy rear end, but I understood that they are called midengined.
If you put a square front engine in the back the weight is def. on the inside of the car.

If you got a VW Beatle, the engine is behind te rear wheels, surely a rear engined and that drives like s***.

[Edited on 25/2/14 by kitman]

MikeRJ - 24/2/14 at 05:53 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
Technically a lot of these are almost/are rear engined (J15/Riot etc)

Technically they are not. On both the J15 and the Riot the engine clearly sits in front of the rear axle line, so they are mid engined.

The only genuinely rear engined kits that spring to mind are ones based on the Beetle floorpan and/or engine e.g. Porsche 356 replicas and Dune buggies.

jeffw - 24/2/14 at 06:05 PM

note the use of the word almost....a J15 is a lot less mid-engined than my Phoenix or most 7 Reps.

[Edited on 24/2/14 by jeffw]

deeceee09 - 24/2/14 at 06:32 PM

quote:

a J15 is a lot less mid-engined than my Phoenix or most 7 Reps.

Not sure you can have "less mid-engined" Jeff. Either it is or it isn't. However, from a front to rear weight distribution aspect, I am sure your Phoenix is nearer 50/50 than my 38/62. However I have been playing with suspension set up recently so maybe I shall be slightly less uncompetitive compared to last year

jeffw - 24/2/14 at 09:07 PM

shades of mid-engineness....lol

Mine is a inline front mid-engined car and yours is a transverse rear mid-engined car.

I'm sure you'll go quicker this year Did I mention I've cured the 6psi drop and the high inlet temps?

kitman - 24/2/14 at 09:18 PM

But....is someone aware of older "mid engined cars, non racers.

nre - 25/2/14 at 07:13 AM

Another thought is that a J15 type setup will give a significantly lower yaw and pitch inertia than a 'front mid engine' setup, as the significant masses in the car (engine, gearbox, driver, passenger) are all concentrated near the whole vehicle centre of gravity (This was apparent when I corner weighted my Mojo with no driver, then with driver, then with driver and passenger, and found that the front-rear weight distribution remained the same for all).

A car such as a Phoenix or a 7 may have a more even distribution, but the significant masses are further apart from each other, hence a higher yaw and pitch inertia.

Lower inertia should make for a more nimble car... but also one that will accelerate in yaw more rapidly... so potentially a little trickier to drive sideways, which tallies with my experience!

[Edited on 25/2/14 by nre]

[Edited on 25/2/14 by nre]

Ivan - 25/2/14 at 07:27 AM

quote:
Originally posted by SPYDER

What type of car is the Yellow one with R444 registration No.?

SPYDER - 25/2/14 at 08:18 AM

Its a Raffo Belva.

[Edited on 25/2/14 by SPYDER]