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Engine number ground off
parkiboy - 15/1/18 at 08:12 PM

Hi I have got a bit of an issue. I bought a raw striker from a dealer in November. I have not really touched it as of yet and has been sat in my garage as I have been busy finishing my degree alongside working.

I have been putting a shopping list together today as I have a week off to work on it next week. Whilst doing this I have noticed the engine number has been ground off.

What are the legalities of this? Could this be a problem? And if so what would you recommend?

I have been doing my own research online and I cannot find anything specifically relating to kit cars.

SteveWalker - 15/1/18 at 08:32 PM

Has it really been ground off (dodgy) or is it just missing (possibly completely legit)?

Is it an old engine or one that might have been bought brand new? New engines often come without numbers.

[Edited on 15/1/18 by SteveWalker]

parkiboy - 15/1/18 at 09:21 PM

Ground off is the wrong word the first part of the engine number is visible reading zx900 the rest of it has been deliberately stamped over multiple times with something to make it completely unreadable. I have attached the image below. I can only think of one reason why somebody would do this..

[Edited on 15/1/18 by parkiboy]

[Edited on 16/1/18 by parkiboy]

gremlin1234 - 15/1/18 at 09:22 PM

quote:
Originally posted by SteveWalker
Has it really been ground off (dodgy) or is it just missing (possibly completely legit)?

Is it an old engine or one that might have been bought brand new? New engines often come without numbers.

[Edited on 15/1/18 by SteveWalker]
also its possible that engine numbers are ground away when blocks are 'skimmed' to get them true (flat) or 'decked' to up the compression.

edit:
just seen the op photo, its certainly not due to normal machining, its deliberately obfuscated.
https://ibb.co/iHaGSR

[Edited on 15/1/18 by gremlin1234]

myke pocock - 15/1/18 at 09:26 PM

No, that been obliterated deliberately. I smell a rat. Go back to the dealer and ask them for an explanation I recon. What is on the V5?

parkiboy - 15/1/18 at 09:41 PM

There is an engine number on the v5 but since I bought the car I have found out it had the engine replaced due to a failure. I checked the vin plate but never thought to check the engine number.

I will get in touch with the dealer. If I am not happy with his response should I be reporting this to the police for the sale of potentially stolen goods?

loggyboy - 15/1/18 at 10:47 PM

Maybe speak to raw, they may have some inside knowledge as they occasionally keep an eye on where old cars go.

coozer - 15/1/18 at 11:47 PM

Dodgy that, if you get pulled off the police your in the do do..

Go back to the seller and tell them is its illegal and been a stealing engine!

peter030371 - 16/1/18 at 09:20 AM

Do motorbike engines ever have the number removed if the bike is scrapped?

nick205 - 16/1/18 at 09:36 AM

I can't recall, do V5 documents have the engine number on them?

If so then what engine number is shown on the V5?

Could you smooth the area and re-stamp the engine number on there?

WallerZero - 16/1/18 at 09:49 AM

definitely a stolen engine and sold on in the kit. Buyer/fitter may not have have been aware. Personally I'd clean it off and stamp whats on the V5 (providing its at least the correct engine i.e. cc). Whilst the legit way is report it and the seller, you may find you lose both the car and the money...

Mash - 16/1/18 at 10:29 AM

quote:
Originally posted by WallerZero
definitely a stolen engine and sold on in the kit. Buyer/fitter may not have have been aware. Personally I'd clean it off and stamp whats on the V5 (providing its at least the correct engine i.e. cc). Whilst the legit way is report it and the seller, you may find you lose both the car and the money...


x 2

If you report it, chances are the car will be seized, and you may not get the cash back from the dealer especially if they're dodgy or involved in anyway.

r1_pete - 16/1/18 at 12:51 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Mash
quote:
Originally posted by WallerZero
definitely a stolen engine and sold on in the kit. Buyer/fitter may not have have been aware. Personally I'd clean it off and stamp whats on the V5 (providing its at least the correct engine i.e. cc). Whilst the legit way is report it and the seller, you may find you lose both the car and the money...


x 2

If you report it, chances are the car will be seized, and you may not get the cash back from the dealer especially if they're dodgy or involved in anyway.


I agree this is probably the way forward for you, you’ve had the car a couple of months, the dealer, if bent, will just say you’ve changed the engine, how can you prove otherwise.....

40inches - 16/1/18 at 01:08 PM

It may be that the engine was changed on the bike, I believe that crate engines don't have a number.
The number from the old engine is stamped on the new engine, that's how Ford work anyway.
I think I would, as said, stamp the V5 engine number on the engine.

parkiboy - 16/1/18 at 01:19 PM

quote:
Originally posted by r1_pete
quote:
Originally posted by Mash
quote:
Originally posted by WallerZero
definitely a stolen engine and sold on in the kit. Buyer/fitter may not have have been aware. Personally I'd clean it off and stamp whats on the V5 (providing its at least the correct engine i.e. cc). Whilst the legit way is report it and the seller, you may find you lose both the car and the money...


x 2

If you report it, chances are the car will be seized, and you may not get the cash back from the dealer especially if they're dodgy or involved in anyway.


I agree this is probably the way forward for you, you’ve had the car a couple of months, the dealer, if bent, will just say you’ve changed the engine, how can you prove otherwise.....


If they do try and claim that the whole process would just sound idiotic, it would mean i swapped the engine with a stolen one then reported it to the police as stolen.. if i bought a car with a duff engine from a dealer and it was so soon after i would be getting in touch with the dealer instead of doing anything myself. Surely a court would see that that would be just a made up lie.

orton1966 - 16/1/18 at 03:17 PM

You might need to do some research but I believe it used to be the case that engine numbers were removed if removed from bikes that had been written off and broken for spares. I certainly had dealing with someone I trusted who was selling a bike engine and he was open about it having no number but had the receipt from the bike breaker he'd brought it from. The engine was circa early 2000's, I believe the practice/rules changed at some point.
I have no idea how you'd stand trying to prove it was/wasn't legitimate!

parkiboy - 16/1/18 at 03:27 PM

So a bit of progression on this. The dealer sought advice from a bike dealership and they confirmed the engine is more than likely stolen. The dealer has agreed to replace the engine at his cost. We will then report the engine (this prevents them taking the car) and he will take legal proceedings against the previous owner.

OliilO - 16/1/18 at 03:40 PM

That sounds like a good result and hopefully a lot less painful than it could have been.

SPYDER - 16/1/18 at 08:15 PM

A lesson for all of us here.

ianhurley20 - 16/1/18 at 10:52 PM

I can't believe some of the advice given out on earlier posts supporting removal of the engine number and stamping another on it.
The engine number will be recoverable by forensic examination.
At the moment it is simply the fact that a car has been purchased that happens to have a stolen engine in it by an innocent purchaser. Ok, worst case is that the engine will return to its lawful owner who by now will almost certainly be an insurance company that has paid out. Lawful title to stolen goods can never be transferred and at a court procedure called interpleading the stolen goods will always be returned to their lawful owner. The insurance company do not want the hassle of removing the engine so will usually negotiate a price for its retention in the car and transfer of legal title.

Start removing numbers and stamping new ones on and who is ever going to believe any innocent explanation!

Don't ask how I know all the above!

SteveWalker - 16/1/18 at 11:01 PM

quote:
Originally posted by parkiboy
So a bit of progression on this. The dealer sought advice from a bike dealership and they confirmed the engine is more than likely stolen. The dealer has agreed to replace the engine at his cost. We will then report the engine (this prevents them taking the car) and he will take legal proceedings against the previous owner.


I can think of another legal possibility before assuming that the previous owner is a criminal - a damaged engine has at some time been replaced with a brand new engine, which has been stamped with the old number and the damaged engine has been sold on for spares/repair, with the number obliterated to prevent duplication.

SJ - 17/1/18 at 09:17 AM

quote:

The engine number will be recoverable by forensic examination.


Unless it is stamped somewhere else how would that be possible?

Stu

r1_pete - 17/1/18 at 02:41 PM

From the deeper deformation of the metal during stamping.

SJ - 17/1/18 at 03:25 PM

quote:

From the deeper deformation of the metal during stamping


I'm surprised - I had difficulty seeing the one stamped on by Ford!

perksy - 17/1/18 at 05:28 PM

Not sure but I think they use a clever process using a chemical, magnification and fancy lighting
Saw it on the telly once in a documentary and it worked really well