Fascism - not in my name
pewe - 10/6/09 at 03:14 PM
Guys, I make no apology for posting this here.
Whatever your political persuasion it cannot be right for these fascists to be allowed to pedal their insidious fascism/racist views on our behalf.
I trust you and the site's moderators will agree.
Cheers, Pewe
The BNP have won two seats in the European election. I've just signed a petition which says NOT IN MY NAME. The petition will be handed into the
European Parliament on the day that the BNP take their seat. I'd like you to sign the petition as well, and I hope you will want to. Let's
show the rest of the EU what we think of these new MEPs:
http://action.hopenothate.org.uk/notinmyname
coozer - 10/6/09 at 03:28 PM
And what's wrong with BNP members getting voted in exactly?
We allow racial extremist's to pedal there shite here, so what's the difference.
Its time we had a vote against other more threatening things engulfing this country....
flak monkey - 10/6/09 at 03:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by coozer
And what's wrong with BNP members getting voted in exactly?
We allow racial extremist's to pedal there shite here, so what's the difference.
Its time we had a vote against other more threatening things engulfing this country....
It doesnt reflect well on the UK, but then we are a democracy and so people are entitled to their opinion and free speech (apparently).
That said I dont agree with their views in the slightest
David
sickbag - 10/6/09 at 03:54 PM
quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
It doesnt reflect well on the UK, but then we are a democracy and so people are entitled to their opinion and free speech (apparently).
That said I dont agree with their views in the slightest
David
Just been doing a bit of a search (God! I hate it when I'm between contracts!) and most of the other european countries have their own
'fascist' parties anyway - although theirs seem to have more support than ours.
flak monkey - 10/6/09 at 04:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by sickbag
Just been doing a bit of a search (God! I hate it when I'm between contracts!) and most of the other european countries have their own
'fascist' parties anyway - although theirs seem to have more support than ours.
You are quite right, and having friends who live in various other european countries they hold those parties in a similar light to that which the
major of Britons hold the BNP.
Fair enough we should be proud to be British and not give in to silly racist (as that is what they are) pressure that we should dumb down our
"Christian" celebrations at easter, Christmas etc just to keep a minority happy. But at the same time we need to respect other peoples
beliefs and cultures and encourage them to be integrated into our society as well.
Some of the comments made to a particular Indian guy at work by some of the closed minded workforce are unbelievable. Sometimes its even to his face.
I had to ask one of them to leave one of my meetings last week for that reason.
Anyway don't get me started.... 
UncleFista - 10/6/09 at 07:26 PM
Is there an online petition to sign that will get people to stop forcing their political views on other people, and instead leave it to people to make
up their own minds on what political party they want to vote for ?
I'd sign that......
PS Just to point out, the BNP are anathema to me, but not as much as riding slipshod over democracy.
You can't just decide that *that* party shouldn't have the same rights as any other, or that the votes they received should be
"cancelled" because some people don't agree with them.
IMHO the more info about the BNP out there the better, a party lives and dies by it's policies, how many people actually "know" what
the BNP stand for ?
The more that find out, the less votes they'll get.
The answer is "more" publicity, not less.
ALL IMHO of course 
sickbag - 10/6/09 at 07:38 PM
I think that is some of the problem. Because the media suppresses anything to do with these groups/parties then they almost get a cult following. As
pretty much anything that seems dark and mysterious does.
If they were wide open, the same as (to paraphrase) LibLabCon then more people would see them for what they were, and what they stand for.
GeorgeM - 10/6/09 at 08:20 PM
We keep being told we live in a democracy.
DO WE? whether you agree with their policies
or no, they DO have a right to speak. Egging
them does not achieve anything other than
publicity, nor do petitions.
Watched an interview on tv, Griffin wasn't allowed
to answer any of the questions put to him,
same with the other one elected when interviewed
after the euro result. Both were constantly cut
short.
If they were from one of the 'left' extremes
would the same have been allowed to happen?
Whether we agree with them or not, as already
said, let them speak, we can all make up our
own minds.
In the meantime, lets all sign petitions to ban
ALL political parties, I'm sure they are all disliked
by somone somewhere.
We could also sign petitions to ban the particular
type of cars we want banned because we don't
like them - you know, the extreme ones!!
I'll start- ban all BMW's, or is it Audis now?
I believe there are some people who would
even like to stop us building our cars,
Live & let live
GeorgeM
RK - 11/6/09 at 12:47 AM
I was under the impression that very few people actually took the time to vote. This leads me, a total outsider with friends in Europe (and the UK if
you will), to believe that the crackpots were the main people voting. If you don't like this sort of result, then you ought to encourage your
fellow citizens to actually VOTE. Then, you get to complain all you want about closed minded whiners who blame the world's problems on everyone
who doesn't look or sound like them.
BTW, it is my strong belief that those who want to "live and let live" are in the majority, and therefore are rarely targets of these narrow
minded xenophobes.
I am a linguistic minority in my province, and although I like my neighbourhood, I don't like some of the opinions expressed against my language
by some provincial politicians. Therefore, it's all well and good until they come after you. Does this remind anyone of any important world
events occurring in the 1930's?
[Edited on 11/6/09 by RK]
C10CoryM - 11/6/09 at 01:08 AM
quote:
Originally posted by pewe
The BNP have won two seats in the European election.
I'm far from an expert in European politics, but that makes it sound to me that enough people voted for BNP to get them two seats.
The whole idea of democracy is so the people can vote in who they want. Just because you didn't get what you want doesn't mean it
isn't democracy.
When "radical" groups start getting seats it can indicate:
-only the radicals voted
-the "normal" people are getting fed up
-you are the radical if others are voting drastically differently
The whole world is trying to deal with mass immigration (and failing terribly IMO). So I would get used to seeing more and more groups pushing
anti-immigration policys...... and getting votes/seats.
If you don't like it, get more people with similar views as yours to vote.
RK - 11/6/09 at 01:32 AM
Yes, and apparently many in my home province, particularly in the lower mainland, where you live, avoided voting, leaving the door open for the
despicable Mr. "Gimme another Mai Tai" Campbell. Personal opinion of course!
Sorry, didn't mean to thread hijack!
MikeRJ - 11/6/09 at 08:52 AM
quote:
Originally posted by pewe
Whatever your political persuasion it cannot be right for these fascists to be allowed to pedal their insidious fascism/racist views on our
behalf.
Even if my political persuasion was far right? (which it isn't).
As others have said, the process of democracy is how they got these seats, would you prefer to change the system of government as well?
cd.thomson - 11/6/09 at 08:57 AM
the process of european democracy is how they got these seats.
The BNP have no seats based in the UK. What you call proportional representation I call giving too much power to minority groups 
MikeRJ - 11/6/09 at 12:24 PM
quote:
Originally posted by cd.thomson
The BNP have no seats based in the UK. What you call proportional representation I call giving too much power to minority groups
If this was some other party whose policies you completely agreed with, would you still be unhappy for them to gain a couple of seats?
cd.thomson - 11/6/09 at 12:57 PM
erm, no, but then thats the entire point? I'm entitled to my opinion, I dont want BNP to have any seats because they're fascist and racist,
I'm therefore saying "not in my name"
Steve G - 11/6/09 at 05:41 PM
quote:
Originally posted by cd.thomson
The BNP have no seats based in the UK. What you call proportional representation I call giving too much power to minority groups
So you think "First past the post" is a better method - as per the national elections?? Personally i think Proportional Representation is a
far more fair method - if 10% of the public have a particular view then why should their say be totally eliminated by a first past the post system
where they will never get a say under the first past the post system.
Whether you like their politics or not, they get a say and should be allowed to air their views. Certain of their (and UKIP's) views on
immigration and Europe make a lot of sense to me. I believe there are far too many immigrants in this country myself at the moment - mainly in minimum
wage positions and so are paying lower rates of tax than the national average. That has obvious effects on education, health service etc for everyone.
They may now have 2 seats in the Eurpean Parliment - but thats hardly going to change European policy is it!!!
Maybe you'd prefer a dictatorship then - so long as its a party who's policies you believe in?? Sounds like you could make quite a loyal N
Korean to me!! 
132,000 people voted BNP at the Euro elections by the way.
[Edited on 11/6/09 by Steve G]
cd.thomson - 11/6/09 at 06:51 PM
quote:
So you think "First past the post" is a better method - as per the national elections??
Its worked fine so far, although actually I quite like the system they used for the london elections.
quote:
Whether you like their politics or not, they get a say and should be allowed to air their views. Certain of their (and UKIP's) views on
immigration and Europe make a lot of sense to me.
Nick Griffin said a few years ago: Without the White race, nothing matters. [Other right-wing parties] believe that the answer to the race question is
integration and a futile attempt to create 'Black Britons', while we affirm that non-Whites have no place here at all and will not rest
until every last one has left our land."
yeah - makes perfect sense to me to along with their consititution:
"The British National Party stands for the preservation of the national and ethnic character of the British people and is wholly opposed to any
form of racial integration between British and non-European peoples. It is therefore committed to stemming and reversing the tide of non-white
immigration …"
quote:
I believe there are far too many immigrants in this country myself at the moment - mainly in minimum wage positions and so are paying lower
rates of tax than the national average.
Migrant workers (I'm talking about those damn polish lorry drivers and shifty african cleaners) largely support the british economic base. The
British unemployed refuse to do the jobs done by migrant workers due to a shifted work ethic thanks to the benefit system and media. Thats anecdotally
based on having to go to the job centre a few times myself - jobs remain unfilled because the dollies refused to take them up.
quote:
Maybe you'd prefer a dictatorship then - so long as its a party who's policies you believe in?? Sounds like you could make quite a loyal N
Korean to me!!
yes thats entirely what I'm implying by standing against the authoritarian and xenophobic BNP
quote:
132,000 people voted BNP at the Euro elections by the way.
I'm fully aware of that. A lot of people also believe in ghosts and homeopathic remedies.. doesnt mean I trust them to make informed
decisions.
Can I just add that I voted UKIP for the european elections.
let me show you the difference:
The electors of Millwall did not back a Post-Modernist Rightist Party, but what they perceived to be a strong, disciplined organisation with the
ability to back up its slogan 'Defend Rights for Whites' with well-directed boots and fists. When the crunch comes, power is the product of
force and will, not of rational debate.” Nick Griffin, BNP leader.
“Mein Kampf is my bible” (Mein Kampf is a book written by Hitler in which he set out his Nazi philosophy and practice.) John Tyndall, BNP founder and
former leader.
“The sick minds who would have us believe that Jews were gassed at Auschwitz are completely twisted.” Tony Lecomber, number two in the BNP
“I am well aware that the orthodox opinion is that six million Jews were gassed and cremated or turned into lampshades. Orthodox opinion also once
held that the earth is flat…I have reached the conclusion that the ‘extermination’ tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely
profitable lie, and latter day witch-hysteria.” Nick Griffin, BNP leader.
“Many who feel that Hitler was right do not believe it is safe yet to state such views openly. But times will change.” John Tyndall, BNP founder and
former leader.
"When we get to power our opponents will be swept away like flies.” John Tyndall, BNP founder and former leader.
[Edited on 11/6/09 by cd.thomson]
[Edited on 11/6/09 by cd.thomson]
David Jenkins - 11/6/09 at 07:05 PM
The fact that they're closet fascists is bad enough - but when they start to spout about "keep Britain white" or "keep the
immigrants out" (or carefully chosen words to that effect) I have to smile wryly - we in Britain are one of the most mongrel nations in the world
- and better for it!
I have a vivid recollection of a trip 30 years ago on a bus in Bristol: at one stop the blackest lad you could imagine got on the bus - at which point
some old pillock started prattling on about how he should go back where he came from, etc. etc.
Instead of getting angry or upset, this lad turned around and said "How long have your family been in this country then? I can trace my
ancestors back to a seaman who signed on as a free man on a sailing ship somewhere on the African coast in the 1700s, and that man's family has
been in Bristol ever since! So what's your family history?"
He got hearty round of applause on the bus (a white audience!) and the old pillock got off with a flea in his ear.
Steve G - 11/6/09 at 07:07 PM
^^^ Politicians - you know..... they say things to get votes from certain individuals but how often do they actually do what they say when they get
elected?? Certain extremist comments or said to attract votes or cause controversy and as you have proved, they are gaining publicity from them (be it
good or bad!!). I would never vote for the BNP myself - while certain things make sense they go wayyyyyyyyy to far in so many areas. Still, I dont
believe any legal group should be silenced just because the majority dont believe in their views - its democracy and to me its wrong to call for them
to be banned just because we may be totally against what they stand for.
As for the protestors the other day - did any of them get charged with assault or breach of the peace etc for egging Nick Griffin??
cd.thomson - 11/6/09 at 07:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Steve G
^^^ Politicians - you know..... they say things to get votes from certain individuals but how often do they actually do what they say when they get
elected?? Certain extremist comments or said to attract votes
Yes votes from all of them right wing fascist in the country of course. Well pointed out and you want to hold you hand up and say "yes i know im
in a group of people attracted together because of shared interest in racism and bigotry but I'm here because deep down Nick means well".
Mental.
People are always egging politicians, prescott isnt in the BNP and there was the same response, get over it.
Steve G - 11/6/09 at 07:22 PM
quote:
Originally posted by cd.thomson
quote:
Originally posted by Steve G
^^^ Politicians - you know..... they say things to get votes from certain individuals but how often do they actually do what they say when they get
elected?? Certain extremist comments or said to attract votes
Yes votes from all of them right wing fascist in the country of course. Well pointed out and you want to hold you hand up and say "yes i know im
in a group of people attracted together because of shared interest in racism and bigotry but I'm here because deep down Nick means well".
Mental.
People are always egging politicians, prescott isnt in the BNP and there was the same response, get over it.
Heyy - i said myself i'd never vote for that party so dont start saying i'm part of a group of racists or bigots myself. My point was they
are a legal group who got legally elected in a country where we have freedom of speech supposedly. You cant stand their politics along with many
others including me for 90% of their policies - but dont start having a go at me for standing up for the democratic process that saw them elected.
They were elected under the process that the European Parliment brought in - so why dont you get over that!!!
Just to be very clear - I am NOT STANDING UP FOR THE BNP - just the democratic process which saw them elected!! Maybe if everyone had gone out to vote
then their percentage would have been lower and so less or no seats for the BNP. Yes Craig you voted - but the majority of Brits didnt so we can
harldly complain when these minority groups get seats under the proportional representation system
[Edited on 11/6/09 by Steve G]
cd.thomson - 11/6/09 at 07:24 PM
im over it, as i said. Not in my name thats all. I didnt throw any eggs
Ninehigh - 13/6/09 at 06:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
I have a vivid recollection of a trip 30 years ago on a bus in Bristol: at one stop the blackest lad you could imagine got on the bus - at which point
some old pillock started prattling on about how he should go back where he came from, etc. etc.
Instead of getting angry or upset, this lad turned around and said "How long have your family been in this country then? I can trace my
ancestors back to a seaman who signed on as a free man on a sailing ship somewhere on the African coast in the 1700s, and that man's family has
been in Bristol ever since! So what's your family history?"
He got hearty round of applause on the bus (a white audience!) and the old pillock got off with a flea in his ear.
A girl in our school of Indian looks was once told to "go back where she came from"
She just blinked at the tool and said "What, Kidderminster?"
Oh, and... Hitler got voted in...
MikeR - 13/6/09 at 06:25 PM
I'd love someone from the BNP to talk to Colin Jackson - you know the guy with a MBE and gold medals for Great Britain.
He can trace his ancestory back to King Henry the something. King Henry (as was the tradition of the time for all kings) could trace his ancestry back
to God.
So Mr BNP - you'd like an Olympic gold medal for Great Britain winning, MBE to go back to where he came from ...... hmmm ..... that would be
right here then!
Thing people have to remember is the Romans came here at the start of AD, the normans a bit later and .... well, we're just a bunch of half casts
.....
Having said that you've probably got the view i'm against what the BNP stand for (i've also been to the first ever concentration camp
and cried my eyes out - very moving place and makes you understand how germany got to that very bad place which is scary).
I will not sign the petition. The principles of democracy & freedom of speech must and should over ride the hate they pedal.
MikeRJ - 13/6/09 at 06:58 PM
quote:
Originally posted by cd.thomson
erm, no, but then thats the entire point?
Not really. You stated that proportional representation gives minority parties too much power. Since you wouldn't object to a minority
who's policies you agree with, then you actually mean you don't like proportional representation because the BNP has won a couple of
seats.
That would be equivalent to me disliking "first past the post", since a complete shower of idiots who I detest more every day gained power
over our entire country.
However, it's not the system that is flawed IMO, something must have driven people to vote. I suspect that many of the votes the BNP received
where by people showing their absolute contempt of the current government with their dishonesty and weak policies. Whether that's a good idea is
obviously debatable.
Ninehigh - 13/6/09 at 07:00 PM
I always thought whoever got the most votes wins, or have I missed something in this whole democracy thing?
Steve G - 13/6/09 at 07:41 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
I always thought whoever got the most votes wins, or have I missed something in this whole democracy thing?
Depends on the system - with the first past the post sytem as used in the general election then yes its the one with the most votes wins. I prefer the
proportional representation system myself though as it gives as per the name a representation of the overall votes, so if 10% vote for the Green Party
for example, they get something like 10% of the MEP's.
Its perfectly feasable for one party to win say 30% of the votes in all 650 seats in the UK election winning each by only 1 vote to the next highest
party. They'd then be able to govern the country completely unopposed on every single point for the next 5 years. Ok so its never going to happen
but the potential is there - you only have to look at the percentages vs seats won to see how close some elections actually are on votes, but the
winners can have a huge seats majority.
Its irrelevant to my preferred system whether i believe in someone's politics or not - if the electorate want them to have a say then so be it.
The majority of elected MP's / MEP's still have the final say on policy through their votes so 2 BNP MEPs arent about to dictate policy
[Edited on 13/6/09 by Steve G]
woodster - 13/6/09 at 09:06 PM
my 10p for what its worth ...... the BNP did have a helping hand from 12 years of labours open door policy .............................. come to
england we have free medical care and houses ... o and if you have 3 wives bring them too 
JoelP - 13/6/09 at 09:18 PM
weak government has fostered many radical views, but i do find racism a sickeningly ignorant thing. Im all for name calling where appropriate, but
judging a book by its cover is just foolish.
Simon - 14/6/09 at 11:13 PM
quote:
Originally posted by cd.thomson
What you call proportional representation I call giving too much power to minority groups
Which strangely enough is what Brown wants to introduce, as presumeably his party is now just that.
ATB
Simon