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Just fallen foul of the new MOT Rules - be aware
stevebubs - 20/1/12 at 10:18 PM

Sister-in-law's car failed today on 4 items:

O/S CV Boot - small split
N/S CV Boot - small split
Track Rod Ball Joint Gaiter - small split
Lower Balljoint Gaiter - small split.

Thought the guys was being picky with her when I found out until I got home and did a bit of research...

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-servicing-repair/mot-changes-2012.html

froggy - 20/1/12 at 10:25 PM

these are all advisable items so unless the boots are trashed i would still advise them . cv boots are pretty straight forward if the grease is all over the place its a fail but a little split with little mess would be an advise for me.

the other thing is the abiltiy to fail brake discs for wear is back too as this was removed last year .

steve m - 20/1/12 at 10:26 PM

Even a small split in a cv/gaiter boot, WILL get larger very soon, and in 12 months time on the next MOT the item would be well shagged


and if the car involved had 4 tiny splits as you say, i would say, the mot guy was correct in failing the car

Steve

froggy - 20/1/12 at 10:54 PM

The mot is an assessment of the vehicle on the day it comes in and unless I can predict the condition of a mechanical component in 28 days it's pass and advise , no doubt a small split will get bigger but it's the presenters responsibility to maintain the car not mine to make the car roadworthy for the next year . I give the information it's up to the owner to decide to tackle things before they get worse .

coozer - 20/1/12 at 11:03 PM

New MOT rules???? what do you mean by that?

All then fails are old stuff, had all that stuff years ago when I had 1.6D Astras....

PSpirine - 20/1/12 at 11:04 PM

When I was failed on a split CV gaitor I was genuinely thankful. Not something I noticed, and it had already started to deteriorate the CV joint itself. Fairly easy to change and only costs a couple of quid.

Consider it an early warning preventing you from having to swap out a CV joint

Balljoints and track rods will get ruined just as quickly if the gaitor is split.


Obviously an advisory would've been more pleasant, but I'd swap all of those out either way!

froggy - 20/1/12 at 11:07 PM

The ones that are new are any damage to the little boots on track rods , ball joints and anti roll bar drop links which could be expensive if you have alloy wishbones that come with the ball joint fixed in , there are some kits to replace the boots but it's still a pita .

paulf - 20/1/12 at 11:32 PM

I have successfully repaired small splits with super glue or sika flex in the past, if cleaned and degreased with brake cleaner or similar and good quality super glue used it is possible for small splits.
Paul

gazza285 - 21/1/12 at 12:25 AM

Reading the rules my van will fail, all bar one of the dash lights have failed.

coyoteboy - 21/1/12 at 02:05 AM

quote:

The mot is an assessment of the vehicle on the day it comes in and unless I can predict the condition of a mechanical component in 28 days it's pass and advise ,


This is interesting, I'd agree, that's what advisory's are for, but I did find someone somewhere who was an MOT guy who was failing people on sometihng he was sure would fail within a year.

coyoteboy - 21/1/12 at 02:17 AM

I'm even more curious now - assuming a kit car with rose jointed suspension pivots all round, and so no rubber boots, is that a fail? assuming you were designing the suspension properly and had a captivated spherical as top and bottom outboard joints instead of rod ends, I can't find any boots that would securely cover that sort of joint.



[Edited on 21/1/12 by coyoteboy]

Ninehigh - 21/1/12 at 04:21 AM

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
quote:

The mot is an assessment of the vehicle on the day it comes in and unless I can predict the condition of a mechanical component in 28 days it's pass and advise ,


This is interesting, I'd agree, that's what advisory's are for, but I did find someone somewhere who was an MOT guy who was failing people on sometihng he was sure would fail within a year.


The past 6 MOTs I've put the Mondeo through have required a tail/brake bulb... Would this guy thus just fail it as a matter of course?

chrisbeale - 21/1/12 at 10:15 AM

Seats must move forward and aft in at least 2 positions...... Mine are bolted down in one position. Surely I don't have to fit runners?

stevebubs - 21/1/12 at 11:10 AM

quote:
Originally posted by steve m
Even a small split in a cv/gaiter boot, WILL get larger very soon, and in 12 months time on the next MOT the item would be well shagged


and if the car involved had 4 tiny splits as you say, i would say, the mot guy was correct in failing the car

Steve


Just had the car up on ramps and had a quick look.

The TRE and Wishbone ball joint gaiters are perished but not yet split all the way through.
One CV Boot is missing a clip and hence loose (defo a valid fail)
The other CV boot has very minor nick in it

Most MOT testers I've had would have failed point 2 and made the rest advisory....but then she didn't go where I recommended but where her "mate" works

flibble - 21/1/12 at 11:16 AM

quote:

Seats must move forward and aft in at least 2 positions...... Mine are bolted down in one position. Surely I don't have to fit runners?


I asked that question of an MOT tester I know well and he assured me that it's only for seats that move, Ie. if you slide the seat forward/back and it wont lock, just slides of it's own accord, then it'd fail (obviously), fixed seats are fine

ChrisW - 21/1/12 at 11:30 AM

I also believe that, as of 1st Jan, any warning light on the dash is a fail. My Audi was moaning about brake pads so I made sure I took it in before the new year. Plenty of 'meat' on them, the tester remarked that from what he saw he would normally have told me they were getting close but wouldn't have put an advisory, but if I'd have brought it in 48 hours later it would have been a fail under the new regs.

Chris

macc man - 21/1/12 at 12:29 PM

Dont forget we are in a recession and any excuse for extra work on customers cars cannot be missed. I only use my local guy because I trust him, I have been ripped off by others in the past. Beware there are stiil rogues out there.

PSpirine - 21/1/12 at 01:33 PM

If the warning lights thing is true, I suggest you top up all your fluids - new cars have a warning light for everything..

ChrisW - 21/1/12 at 08:41 PM

quote:
Originally posted by PSpirine
If the warning lights thing is true, I suggest you top up all your fluids - new cars have a warning light for everything..


It's true! I was even warned that my Mrs' car should be failed because the washer fluid warning was on. Luckily he had a hose pipe very close by...

Chris

britishtrident - 21/1/12 at 09:51 PM

CV joint gaitor even a small slit has been a fail for a long time with good reason.

britishtrident - 21/1/12 at 09:54 PM

quote:
Originally posted by paulf
I have successfully repaired small splits with super glue or sika flex in the past, if cleaned and degreased with brake cleaner or similar and good quality super glue used it is possible for small splits.
Paul



Yes that works.

britishtrident - 21/1/12 at 09:59 PM

quote:
Originally posted by flibble
quote:

Seats must move forward and aft in at least 2 positions...... Mine are bolted down in one position. Surely I don't have to fit runners?


I asked that question of an MOT tester I know well and he assured me that it's only for seats that move, Ie. if you slide the seat forward/back and it wont lock, just slides of it's own accord, then it'd fail (obviously), fixed seats are fine



In the old days it was not unknown for cars to to come for MOT with the seats not bolted down in any way.

froggy - 22/1/12 at 10:54 AM

quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
CV joint gaitor even a small slit has been a fail for a long time with good reason.


nothing in the guide says that a small slit consitutes a fail , the wording says deteriorated or insecure so that it no longer prevents the ingress of dirt , to me a small split isnt a fail unless the boot is covered in cv grease

coyoteboy - 23/1/12 at 10:30 AM

The bolted down seat one is another issue - manual could read two ways. There's a clear indication that an adjuster mechanism must work correctly, but the top of the page says original designs are to be accepted.

britishtrident - 24/1/12 at 10:54 PM

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
The bolted down seat one is another issue - manual could read two ways. There's a clear indication that an adjuster mechanism must work correctly, but the top of the page says original designs are to be accepted.



Yep loads of older vehicles didn't have adjustable seats even after the vintage era -- GPO vans, Ex-army vehicles.

alistairolsen - 15/3/12 at 08:43 PM

I had one fail on an insecure CV boot and expected when I collected it to find the large end hanging off and grease everywhere (not my car) but it turns out the cable tie one the small end wasnt quite tight enough and the rubber boot could slide back and forth between the raised ridges on the shaft. W....T.....F

coyoteboy - 5/4/12 at 12:01 AM

Any news on what happens with the new rules and spherical bearings/rose joints? planning on using them instead of ball joints and they're physically impossible to "boot" in some situations as far as I can see.

40inches - 5/4/12 at 07:42 AM

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
Any news on what happens with the new rules and spherical bearings/rose joints? planning on using them instead of ball joints and they're physically impossible to "boot" in some situations as far as I can see.


THESE are ok, a bit of a fiddle to get on, but if I had rod end wishbones or ball joints, I would fit them as a matter of course.

loggyboy - 5/4/12 at 08:17 AM

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
Any news on what happens with the new rules and spherical bearings/rose joints? planning on using them instead of ball joints and they're physically impossible to "boot" in some situations as far as I can see.


The manual states A constant velocity joint gaiter therefore rj/sb are not CVs so therefore are not going to be part of that requirement.

coyoteboy - 5/4/12 at 10:17 AM

I'm thinking the outboard end of this is going to be hard to seal properly:



Loggyboy...
Manual section 2.4, page 9 says

"a ball joint dust cover missing or excessively
damaged, deteriorated or insecure to the
extent that it would no longer prevent the
ingress of dirt etc. "

Meaning a fail on any non-covered ball joint type suspension component as pictured above.

I was wondering if half-spheres like the yellow bits in the image below would be an option but I think they check that they can't be lifted easily (i.e. they're secured in some way).



[Edited on 5/4/12 by coyoteboy]

40inches - 5/4/12 at 10:41 AM

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
I'm thinking the outboard end of this is going to be hard to seal properly:



Loggyboy...
Manual section 2.4, page 9 says

"a ball joint dust cover missing or excessively
damaged, deteriorated or insecure to the
extent that it would no longer prevent the
ingress of dirt etc. "

Meaning a fail on any non-covered ball joint type suspension component as pictured above.

I was wondering if half-spheres like the yellow bits in the image below would be an option but I think they check that they can't be lifted easily (i.e. they're secured in some way).



[Edited on 5/4/12 by coyoteboy]


Ah! You need these

loggyboy - 5/4/12 at 11:23 AM

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
Loggyboy...
Manual section 2.4, page 9 says

"a ball joint dust cover missing or excessively
damaged, deteriorated or insecure to the
extent that it would no longer prevent the
ingress of dirt etc. "

Meaning a fail on any non-covered ball joint type suspension component as pictured above.


Good spot! But would 'original design' be accepted, I.e. of the were never covered in the first place, would it not be let go?