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IVA'ing Ex-Formula Car...
scootz - 8/1/10 at 09:56 PM

Has anyone taken a single-seater ex-race car (any formula) and converted to road use?

I seriously considered doing it to my Formula Vauxhall Lotus, but just never got round to it.

Would be interested to hear how anyone got on!

Ta!

johnston - 8/1/10 at 09:59 PM

Wasn't there a formula VW car in last months PPC

Must have a look

scootz - 8/1/10 at 10:01 PM

Cheers Johnston... would be great if you could let me know if it was.

will121 - 8/1/10 at 10:05 PM

quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Cheers Johnston... would be great if you could let me know if it was.


yes there was, think ive heard of couple, think a formula Vauxhall be a bit harder though, is it like this??

[img][/img]

[Edited on 8/1/10 by will121]

scootz - 8/1/10 at 10:07 PM

Sorry - should have explained - the FVL was sold a while back. It just struck me as it was lying in my garage that it may be an interesting exercise to convert to road use.

Steve Hignett - 8/1/10 at 10:12 PM

I am not usually the one to shoot down someone's whacky dreams/ideas, but I feel that there would be absolutely no point.

Road cars for the road (fast or slow)

Race cars for the track....

scootz - 8/1/10 at 10:18 PM

Is it really that whacky? Surely not in the context of what we (LCB's) get up to!

For me it's a viable venture... your starter for ten is a ready built, good handling car!

will121 - 8/1/10 at 10:19 PM

quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Sorry - should have explained - the FVL was sold a while back. It just struck me as it was lying in my garage that it may be an interesting exercise to convert to road use.


if you fancy another one, there's one on ebay at me on bids 23hrs to go £5995
FVL ebay

scootz - 8/1/10 at 10:29 PM

Is that your car Will?

scootz - 8/1/10 at 10:37 PM

Ps - yes, that's a FVL Will.

I have to ask - why do you reckon it would be any harder than another Formula car to IVA?

Steve Hignett - 8/1/10 at 10:39 PM

According to the ebay ad, the car is approx 150 miles away from his LCB address?

scootz - 8/1/10 at 10:41 PM

Good work Detective Hignett!

Steve Hignett - 8/1/10 at 10:56 PM

With regard my "whacky" statement - I wasn't saying that the exercise of actually doing it should be dis-encouraged, more to the point that if you wanted to go down a road in this country quickly, you'd probably be a LOT better off with something like a £2k Subaru, than £10k into a converted Formula car. Hence my statement, race for track and road for road...

MikeR - 8/1/10 at 10:59 PM

Thingy who build the fureo did it with a f3 car first. From that experience he built his car.

i've seen an old (20 year + old) photo of a forumla ford on the road + the vw racer in ppc last / this month.

scootz - 8/1/10 at 11:04 PM

Cheers... will check the mag out!

matt_gsxr - 8/1/10 at 11:10 PM

I think we all know that we could IVA something like this. But it costs you £500 for a test, and £100 for a retest (or whatever), and a whole load of effort most of which makes the car worse.

And finally, after all that effort, you end up with a car that is not much use on the road and you feel like a prat at the supermarket (or more likely when overheating in traffic). You are also always going to get pulled by the police.

I am borderline with my Phoenix (see left) which has no screen which makes me most self conscious.

I think I agree with the "racecars for the track" principle.

Matt

p.s. if you do end up doing the conversion. Then the only big benefit is that you can actually drive to a track-day, do the day and drive home. But realistically that is the only benefit (to my mind).

scootz - 8/1/10 at 11:15 PM

Some good points there Matt... especially the bit about ruining the handling (ride height would have to be significantly raised).

I'm not actually looking to do this - was just wondering if anyone had, how they got on, and if the car was a 'real-world' success.

daniel mason - 8/1/10 at 11:17 PM

they are not massively different to things like roadrunner sprint R's are they? and plenty of them are on the road!

matt_gsxr - 8/1/10 at 11:28 PM

Scootz,

I am relieved.

I don't like pissing on other peoples bonfires.

Matt

zilspeed - 8/1/10 at 11:55 PM

quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
they are not massively different to things like roadrunner sprint R's are they? and plenty of them are on the road!


I'm a bit confused about the Sprint R.
One seat, so you can't take the missus / mate / kid / workmate / guy around the corner / guy at the trackday out for a passenger ride. Yes I know, obvious.
So, as a road car, quite compromised compared to any of the two seaters in that respect.
As a track car, fair enough, you could use it non competitively and have a bit of fun with it.
Used competitively ? Well, it's a single seater - beginning and end of that discussion. As it turns out, due to being big enough to have stuff like seats, for having road car ground clearance and for having non wings, it'll get pi**ed upon by all the proper single seaters.

It's a pretty specialised tool really isn't it ?

RK - 9/1/10 at 12:02 AM

don't the pointy bits at the front - ie the wing - cause problems for projections?

D Beddows - 9/1/10 at 01:07 AM

quote:

I'm a bit confused about the Sprint R. One seat, so you can't take the missus / mate / kid / workmate / guy around the corner / guy at the trackday out for a passenger ride. Yes I know, obvious. So, as a road car, quite compromised compared to any of the two seaters in that respect. As a track car, fair enough, you could use it non competitively and have a bit of fun with it. Used competitively ? Well, it's a single seater - beginning and end of that discussion. As it turns out, due to being big enough to have stuff like seats, for having road car ground clearance and for having non wings, it'll get pi**ed upon by all the proper single seaters. It's a pretty specialised tool really isn't it ?


Never seen the point of it myself either and everyone who's ever built one seems to have put it up for sale after a couple of track days......... I can see the same thing happening to the cars built from Chris Gibbs next book too sadly - unless you're going racing, single seaters aren't the way forward and if you're going racing building 'locost' single seaters from a Haynes book aren't really going to get you anywhere unless someone decides there's a race series in it.......

[Edited on 9/1/10 by D Beddows]

Wadders - 9/1/10 at 01:14 AM

Truth is they only handle well at speed, and they certainly don't like bumps or uneven road surfaces, the 40mm ground clearance might cause a few headaches too By the time you've raised the ride height sufficiently the geometry will be completely screwed.

The only similarity with the sprint R is they both only have one chair.

Al.


Originally posted by scootz

For me it's a viable venture... your starter for ten is a ready built, good handling car!



[Edited on 9/1/10 by Wadders]

scootz - 9/1/10 at 05:17 AM

Ah Wadders... it's been too long dear fellow - been getting withdrawls from your avatar!

scootz - 9/1/10 at 05:19 AM

quote:
Originally posted by RK
don't the pointy bits at the front - ie the wing - cause problems for projections?


AFAIK the wing is not a problem so long as the edges are correctly radiused.

m8kwr - 9/1/10 at 07:55 AM

I am currently building a car based around a lotus 49, and tecno F2/F3 from the late 60's

I am having the same issue as you deciding whether to put it on the road, but the cost of putting it on would pay for a second hand trailer, tow bar on the car etc, and the insurance tax etc would pay for track days!!!

But the car would get more use if driven on the roads, with 2 kids I might not find the time going to track days etc.

Unsure what year of car you are thinking about.

Someone on here has built a formula 1 rep, I think it uses the mr2 running gear, I think that has 2 seats though.

The new book from Chris Gibbs is a similar I believe to the one I am building, from the only picture i've seen. And you think that would be able to get through the IVA.

johnston - 9/1/10 at 10:22 AM

If you want to do it s a practical road car and be comfortable I would say no.

If you want to do it so you can say you did it then go for it!!!

Although if your roads are anything like the ones round me you might want a comfy seat and some extra suspension travel!!

mmmm copy lotus's twin chassis

Although I wouldn't like sitting in one in a 40fter sandwich down the motorway

hicost blade - 9/1/10 at 10:27 AM

I love the idea of a road going formula car

Suspension could be sorted with some kind of air lift device to get over bumps, like a lot of super cars

I would love a car quick enough to keep up with my mental mate on his R1

The point about being on your own is b******t, how many superbike riders want a passenger when they are giving it the beans?

I saw a road going formula first at Exeter a couple of years ago and it looked like a lot of fun (apart from the CVH engine pointing the wrong way)

Can't the wings be taken off for IVA??

If we all decided to go the easy route this forum would be called the cheap jap/crap 4wd saloon owners forum, but it's a specialist car builders/owners forum isn't it?

Don't let people poo poo your ideas, we all need to dream, at least yours is exciting!

nitram38 - 9/1/10 at 11:51 AM

Guys been there done that!
Look for my posts on The F1-2.
The main problem with converting a racecar is road clearance. Most formula cars run 20mm of the racetrack.
Just lifting them causes all sorts of geometry problems with the suspension.
Buy a kit off Russ Bost if you don't want the hassle of figuring out.
You are 1yr too late to have bought my car!
Both mine and Russ's cars are tandem seaters. Two seats in a line to take a passenger.

scootz - 9/1/10 at 05:38 PM

But was yours not a scratch built Nitram, so not an ex-race car???

Wadders - 9/1/10 at 07:58 PM

Trust me, i for one wasn't trying to wee on anyones bonfire, it's just a fact that cars built for a specific purpose, simply don't transpose well to other uses.
If you fancied going rallying for instance, you wouldn't start by converting a go kart

Have a good look round a modern single seat race car and the pitfalls of converting to road use would become obvious.

Yes i'm sure it could be done, but why waste the effort?, just build a fast road car from the off if that's the aim.


Al






Originally posted by hicost blade
I love the idea of a road going formula car

Suspension could be sorted with some kind of air lift device to get over bumps, like a lot of super cars

I would love a car quick enough to keep up with my mental mate on his R1

The point about being on your own is b******t, how many superbike riders want a passenger when they are giving it the beans?

I saw a road going formula first at Exeter a couple of years ago and it looked like a lot of fun (apart from the CVH engine pointing the wrong way)

Can't the wings be taken off for IVA??

If we all decided to go the easy route this forum would be called the cheap jap/crap 4wd saloon owners forum, but it's a specialist car builders/owners forum isn't it?

Don't let people poo poo your ideas, we all need to dream, at least yours is exciting!



[Edited on 9/1/10 by Wadders]

russbost - 9/1/10 at 09:42 PM

I have to say that race cars don't convert easily to road use. Nitrams car, although it looked like a track car was a scratch build with proper (ish) ground clearance.
My original (twin engine, Ferrari colours) car was an ex formula Ford which I cut in half & extended - steering column had to be replaced (one piece straight column - no good for IVA), no handbrake so rear calipers had to be replaced, even after extensive suspension mods I could only get ground clearance by fitting 18" wheels which was not my original intention.........

This was why when I designed the production Furore F1 I started with a fresh sheet of paper & designed it to look like a race car , but drive like a road car. I agree that single seater road cars are fairly pointless, hence why the Furore has 2 seats!

t.j. - 10/1/10 at 08:01 AM

If it's possible in germany, why not in the UK?

formula-3

nitram38 - 10/1/10 at 11:24 AM

I would have loved a "real" race car to road conversion, but it was easier to "scratch build" then end up with an abomination that could not work safely on the road.
Even the German car has ground clearence issues.

scootz - 11/1/10 at 11:28 AM

Just thinking out loud, but wouldn't a set of 18" centre-locks give you a couple of extra inches without compromising the suspension geo.

russbost - 11/1/10 at 01:28 PM

That's exactly what I did with my original car, depending on original & new profiles the sidewall height tends to stay around the same, but it only gains you about 2.5" & you really need to gain about 4" - 5" extra.

The original ground clearance of a Formula car may well be sub 1" & they have very little suspension travel, so given that you need 4" to clear a speedbump & you need to allow extra clearance for the day you have a heavy passenger & a full tank of fuel (Formula cars don't carry much fuel either!) 5" is probably what you actually need to gain - you're then going to add weight & that figure will shrink again.

18" wheels don't really look quite right & unless you're going to spend an absolute fortune they, along with the much bigger tyres, weigh about as much as a small bungalow!

The other issue is that if you're going to 18" rims you need to be running widths of at least 245 or they just look daft - & those widths won't necessarily look right with what you're doing & will affect suspension geometry to a certain degree - scrub radius for one thing.

scootz - 11/1/10 at 01:49 PM

Cheers