UG
Why does everything have to be politicised?
On Sunday I read a fascinating article in The Times about the rioters, the gangs and the lives they lead.
The cretins at News International no longer publish their paper online but fortunatly the article was also in The Spectator. It's really, really
interesting and worth a few minutes of your time before you jump too much on the "kill them all and let god sort them out" bandwagon.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/essays/all/7157318/web-exclusive-these-rioters-are-tony-blairs-children.thtml
It's depressing that we've got ourselves/our society into this state and there are not going to be any easy fixes!
Got time on your hands? The author has previously written a much longer article for the Centre for Policy Studies which is available to download.
Again it's really eye-opening and high-lights that if we want to help prevent the riots happening again and fix "Broken Britain" we
have a long road ahead of us!
http://www.cps.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=cpsarticle&id=622&Itemid=17
Just thought some folks might be interested!
Cheers,
James
I was actually looking forward to reading that till I relaised it was a party political broadcast.
UG
Why does everything have to be politicised?
There is no cure - emigrate and watch the collapse from a safe distance.
quote:
The riots are the apotheosis of the welfare state and popular culture in their British form.
A population thinks (because it has often been told so by intellectuals and the political class)
that it is entitled to a high standard of consumption, irrespective of its personal efforts;
and therefore it regards the fact that it does not receive that high standard,
by comparison with the rest of society, as a sign of injustice.
...
Finally, long experience of impunity has taught the rioters that they have nothing to fear from the law,
which in England has become almost comically lax—except, that is, for the victims of crime.
For the rioters, crime has become the default setting of their behavior;
the surprising thing about the riots is not that they have occurred,
but that they did not occur sooner and did not become chronic.
To be fair it doesn't help when we're stuffed with images of people being amazingly wealthy. I remember feeling physically sick when I found out Michael Owen was youger than me yet earned more in a week than I did in a year (and I was doing 16-17 hours a day too)
Parts of England are beyond social repair... they are completely and utterly doomed to eternal nihilism and criminality. The reasons why this came to
pass are complex and many.
Unchecked immigration was the root-cause. That probably makes me sound like a bully-boy racist, but I don't think I am any more racist that the
next level-headed citizen.
The fact that mistakes were made on all sides following this immigration disaster is now sadly neither here nor there. There will be no peaceful
solution in our lifetimes. It will only get worse.
From a purely selfish view, I see this as another reason why Scotland needs to push ahead with independence. The societal cancer that we are seeing
down south hasn't set in up here yet. Sure we have our very own home-bred problems where benefits and criminality are rife, but it's
manageable and potentially solvable.
If you constantly compare yourself to everyone else in the world, you will be constantly disappointed in yourself. Footballers, artists et al who
"make it" are extremely rare. If you always compare to that you may as well go run under the next bus.
That said, the western system is set up for:
a) those who get proper education, contacts, and work ethic (because they see light at the end of the tunnel, making their short term sacrifices
worthwhile)
b) those who inherit wealth (otherwise known as "making money the old fashioned way"
Lottery winners excepted. Otherwise, it's a long hard, unforgiving road, leading to misery.
Education is everything, and it is never too late.
I read that article and still feel that the rioters and especially their parents are very unlikely to ever have a useful place in society. Plenty of people from poor or disadvantaged backgrounds get off their backsides and make something of their lives - the opportunity is there if you have the motivation. If someone prefers a life of crime and government handouts to honest hard work, how do you change that?
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
Plenty of people from poor or disadvantaged backgrounds get off their backsides and make something of their lives - the opportunity is there if you have the motivation.
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
but it's manageable and potentially solvable.
Ah, The Scheme... never realised they broadcast it down south!
I had to work amongst all that sh*te for years!
quote:
Originally posted by Dangle_kt
I was actually looking forward to reading that till I relaised it was a party political broadcast.
UG
Why does everything have to be politicised?
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
Plenty of people from poor or disadvantaged backgrounds get off their backsides and make something of their lives - the opportunity is there if you have the motivation.
Absolutely...
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
If someone prefers a life of crime and government handouts to honest hard work, how do you change that?
One of the aspects that has led to the current situation was when we started to allow young people to become 'enpowered' and start to
dictate policy within schools, local communities and within the workplace. By all means involve young people but not to the extent that they dictate.
Also the fad for bending over backwards for every minority group out there to the detriment of the majority spelt disaster. Things become a fad for a
while and just you make sure you do not get in its way!!! Remember when it became THE thing to be gay and every Labour council spent millions on
experts, counsellors, drop-in centres etc. And, NO, I am not sexist or racist just realist.
And just to finish with. I am sick and tired of being told that one in two black guys under 25 are out of work and one in 5 white guys are unemployed.
Any chance someone will actually analyse that statistic a bit more and SEE if jobs are actually available in those areas to employ the one in two
that are out of work.
AND RELAXXXXX!!!
Its bad parenting thats brought all this about and nothing else. Seeing some of the scumbag parents leaving court in Manchester with thier scumbag
kids and blaming the government, lack of money and everyone and everything else bar themselves and thier own lazyness and lack of respect for any one
or anything else made my blood boil.
You make your own destiny and you are liable for your own actions and if you have kids your liable for thiers as well. Pull the parents benefit and if
they are in council housing give them 6 months to change thier ways or they are out by that I mean homeless not shunted off to some other agency to
pay for them.
Cheers,
Bob
Quit blaming everyone else and get on with it. Blaming everyone else, is what the rioting scum do.
Work on integrating immigrants, instead of putting them in big piles with the other poor people. Find a way to include these people, instead of
alienating them, which leads to where you are now.
People don't mind immigrants when they are useful to repair their cars, or fix their houses up. Different story now, eh?
It's too late. A hybrid youth has developed... part indigenous and part immigrant... and the beast has absorbed the worst of all cultures.
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
It's too late. A hybrid youth has developed... part indigenous and part immigrant... and the beast has absorbed the worst of all cultures.
quote:
Originally posted by RK
Work on integrating immigrants, instead of putting them in big piles with the other poor people. Find a way to include these people, instead of alienating them, which leads to where you are now.
to be honest, I dont see why we shouldnt shoot them all and let the big man deal with them, at the end of the day wrong is wrong, no matter what
background or upbringing you have, its still wrong to mindlessly wreck our country (without any reason) , and they should pay dearly for doing the
damage they have done.
ps the immigrants and scrounges get far too much of our taxes
[Edited on 16/8/11 by A1]
I blame the "educated " classes. Those with qualifications that allow them to hold us to ransom. It all started in the fifties when those
that thought they were better than the rest of us, lawyers, accountants, academics etc formed their cartels that allowed them to charge what they
wanted, when they wanted, before moving on to other places like the banks/business world/politics and best of all the city of London where they could
arrange even better spoils. . This is why we have so many politicians that are trained in law, they make rules that (A) cannot be enforced (B) allow
those that can pay the freedom to get round these laws and (C) breed a system that loves serial criminals which is why we have so many legal eagles
circling looking for prey when feeding off legal aid/ no win no fee is not enough.
Meanwhile the workers who actually toil were brought down by their own kind who became corrupted by the good life that union leadership/politics
brought. Not only did they lead the working class up the garden path they played right into the hands of the money men which allowed them to ruin
industry which meant that we lost our core employment thus generating a society that were redundant and borderline in life.
The industry that is education failed to push the simple things like the three Rs and forgot to mention that everyone is important and cleaning
toilets is as important to society as mending bones. They instead pushed for more and more paper qualifications that after all mean nothing if there
is no job for you to do. More "educated" people in the short time keeps them in a job before they to join the gravy train becoming experts
in this and that and advisers to those in power.
A few years ago the "educated" told us we needed more people to expand so we brought in hundereds of thousands to do the meanial jobs that
we would not do. We failed to educate them, integrate, and let them join our society. The experts told us that these incomers would generate money for
the economy through their toil. The point they forgot to tell us was how to get our share because we forgot that our "Educated" classes, the
accountants, lawyers etc were there to keep them right allowing them to challenge our system and way of life.
Give people a proper education.....................................
Give them a job..................................................
Give them a future.............................................
and if that fails....................................................... up against the wall.
as a current "yoof" i will give my opinion on society
as a bit of background on me, born in devon though moved to london when i was 6(?) for 5 years i went to one of the worst secondary schools in the
country (bexley grammar school) which was built to rebuild a severely failing school in a part of the borough that is known for its gangs and gang
culture. you could say it was very multicultural but normally a multicultural society there are normally more from home nation. in this school i was a
minority.
the 5 A*-C GCSE grades when i first joined was less than 20% i left in the year it was up to 40%, so it was a improving school, but then i would
expect it to be with a building costing several 10's of million...
i then went on after GCSE's to what is the best boys grammar school in the country, it was a highly selective sixth forms with the average parent
owning a large 4X4 or jag. quite different.
so my view on all this is that a lot of the "me first" society is that a lot has made its way through different media from the states. there
are a lot of similarities in what you see in movies, youtube, television and the news in relation to gangs in this country. for example the
territorial gangs, racist gangs and gangs based in estates.
it is not however purely from the media, a lot is to do with parenting or lack of in some cases. i also believe we can learn a lot from America, for
example there national pride. it annoys me sometimes how much they go on about there "beautiful land" blah blah blah... but i think an
attitude in this country would really help. saying that some communities are already like this, likewise some estates aren’t gang ridden.
unfortunately it will be very hard to stop as a lot of has come from the different media available. i dont know the solution, if any, for me i think i
will end up moving county. think what you like of me getting government funded education then leaving, but i think the country has been dug in too
deep to save in my lifetime...
quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
quote:
Originally posted by Dangle_kt
I was actually looking forward to reading that till I relaised it was a party political broadcast.
UG
Why does everything have to be politicised?
It isn't a party political broadcast just because mistakes made by a government are pointed out. Things are associated with politics because politicians create the conditions which encourage or discourage certain types of behaviour -
eg under the last government it became possible for a single female to make a good living on benefits by having many children - this is madness
Also they missed many opportunities to correct the situation where it can be better to stay on benefits and turn down a job because they will be worse off ......
I hope this government will address these and other flaws in our system - because the last one just threw money at it without actually improving anything. So far the signs are encouraging but there's a long way to go yet.
Well people can be part of the problem, or part of the solution. The problems regarding education go back a lot further than the 50's. Your class system has been going on a while now. All I was saying as the benefits of education are potentially very good. Potentially. It is up to the individual person to take advantage or not, but at least with a bit of learning, there is a choice to be made.
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
I still feel that the rioters and especially their parents are very unlikely to ever have a useful place in society.
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
Plenty of people from poor or disadvantaged backgrounds get off their backsides and make something of their lives - the opportunity is there if you have the motivation
Hmmmmm.......
Yoof who are hooked on video games like GTA ...'they' end up playing the games for real ..not realising its fiction....and try to do the
same
Yoof who are hooked on 'gangsta' movies .... they think they are real too .... they try to mimic the said movies...
The yoofs who participated in the mayhem do not want to learn....so they have no idea that real life actually does exist....
The said yoofs are very well versed on yuman rights a la EU ... they know their parents have had the ability to set values, boundaries and
'rules' severely depleted by the 'powers that be' ....
As have their teachers had the power to apply discipline (no, I'm not talking about 'violence' ) .... taken away from them ...
As have the police ....
The 'yoofs' hold them all to ransom ......
The yoofs all demand 'respeck' from their elders without even knowing what it means, and that it has to be earned, it is not a
'given' ...
Why did they do it? .... because they could and can ..... see all of above......
Sadly some of the early yoof...are now parents themselves.
How to try and remedy it ?.....
Ditch being governed by the EU and take back our judiciary system, our courts and our laws ... they used to be the best in the world ....
Let the parents 'parent', let the teachers 'teach', let the police 'police'.....
The Home Office or whatever it is called now ..to take a long hard look at how PACE 1984 changed policing ....too many different interpretations has
made it not fit for purpose ..IMHO....
All above IMHO of course .......
............and breathe...... 
Amen Fozz!
Well all the reasons listed above are the reasons this country is in the state it's in, I also blame gas/electric and fuel companies for jacking
their prices all the time so they make an extra billion this next quarter (but he have to find yet another £50 a month)
Solution? F knows really....
I see a man in his 20's has died in Cumbria after having been tasered by police who were arresting him.
Will there be riots / looting in the streets of Barrow, Penrith and Kendal... ???
i hope not, i'm off there on my holidays in a couple of weeks!
We came blame Blair, Thatcher, governments or even as one said above 'the power companies' but what are we going to do to solve this
national crisis??????? Thats the problem we ALL face now.
Personally I feel that this has now become a generational problem and it won't solved until the next generation of 'yoofs' are growing
up and start having children. We need to instil good traditional values in our young people of today so they instil the same values to their
children. Many have said that young people 'don't wanna learn' so teachers can't teach. When growing up I 'didn't want
to learn' but I did because I knew that if I didn't I would get a thick ear when I came home. If today's parents are unwilling to
disipline their children then we need to disipline the parents. What if the government starts stopping benefits to parents of children who fail at
school. Or handing out prison sentences for such crimes
quote:
Originally posted by Dangle_kt
I was actually looking forward to reading that till I relaised it was a party political broadcast.
UG
Why does everything have to be politicised?
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
However on brighter watching the BBC today it is fairly obvious Camerons days are numbered, take your bets for who will be our next leader my bet is Theresa May.
quote:
Originally posted by Fozzie
Ditch being governed by the EU and take back our judiciary system, our courts and our laws ... they used to be the best in the world ....
quote:
Originally posted by sebastiaan
quote:
Originally posted by Fozzie
Ditch being governed by the EU and take back our judiciary system, our courts and our laws ... they used to be the best in the world ....
To make things a little more complicated: there's 27 nations in the EU, and the UK is the only one in which this problem has surfaced in this way (AFAIK). There must be something else going on that isn't the eurocrat's faults...
quote:
Originally posted by Fozzie
I know what you are saying .....but when 'we' have interpreted the 'directives' in the same manner that other EU states have, the Commission on Yuman Rights have taken 'us' to task .... told 'us' how it should be interpreted and reversed 'our' decisions .....
It doesn't happen to the other EU states .....
Hence, IMHO, we should ditch it ....
Fozzie for PM!
Please vote now.
quote:
Originally posted by Confused but excited.
Fozzie for PM!
Please vote now.