Im going to do Mondays and Tuesdays
Did anyone else see the latest Horizon last night:
3. Eat, Fast and Live Longer - Michael Mosley examines the powerful science behind the ancient idea of fasting.
It's been know for nearly 100 years now that reducing calories improves life expectancy and reduces instance of many diseases including cancer,
during the great depression in the US in the dust bowl life expectancy went UP by 7 years.
He looked at all the ways to reduce calories and finally came down to one that was do-able for the average person over a very long period of time -
cos most of us wouldn't be able to do it everyday.
He found out that reducing calories just 2 days a week gives you nearly all the huge benefits of doing it everyday. So any two days a week you eat
just 500 calories, about equal to a regular sandwich and a piece of fruit.
So this morning I have started - went to Waitrose and got a sandwich a fruit jelly for lunch- total of 500 calories and that will be it for the day.
Also went into Boots and checked my weight BMI etc, and I'm a pound into overweight, so I'm sure this will help that too. I reckon this is
well achievable, and he said it was the most important and significant way to improve peoples health he had ever seen.
If you're interested you should watch the programme, it was fascinating.
So you are hungry and miserable and you live longer........
Whoop-di-dooo !!!
I watched it and was very taken with it and the science.
Im going to do Mondays and Tuesdays
Another classic reply showing the staggering intelligence of some Locosters!
If I can be a bit hungry for a couple of days a week (which I can choose and fit in with my lifestyle) and massively improve my chances of living a
healthier and disease free life it seems like a no-brainer really. My dad had prostate cancer which means there is a reasonable likelihood of me
getting it too - this way of eating has been shown to drastically reduce the chances of developing it. It would seem to me a stupid and idiotic thing
not to do really - I'd rather be hungry a couple of days a week than have my postate removed and complete screw my sex life for all time or die.
I like to be ahead of the curve if possible, not dragging behind just slagging off all new development because it makes me seem more like a real
(stoneage) man.
Anyway, each to their own! 
Re-Man - you know they don't need to be consecutive days if you find it a bit hard.
[Edited on 7/8/12 by Jasper]
I went to buy some new jeans today and have gone up yet another waist size! I knew I was over-weight, but this was a shock. Next stop was a new pair of running shoes! I'll try and use them for running rather than DIY/gardening/working on the car this time.
I can actually recommend having a 2 1/2 year old as a fitness/keeping young trainer 
Doing a bit of daddy daycare at the moment and after 2 hours of
football and at least an hour being a Power Ranger yesterday ( best not to catch a glimpse of a middle aged, slightly overweight balding Power Ranger
in the reflection from the garage window though...... ) - a trip to the toy shop and soft play hell today.......so far....... I'm a: knackered
and b: feel about 20 years younger - sod fasting, I wouldn't be able to keep up!!
Think of the weight benefits in the kit too
quote:
Originally posted by Daddylonglegs
Think of the weight benefits in the kit too
me too for the fasting. my 2 days are always tomorrow and the next day
There was a program (may have been Horizon even) about 10-15 years ago that explored tghe ideas of immortality, from cryogenic stuff to under
calorie-ing. As you say, the benefits are well known, but that program didn't mention the 2 days a week idea, which may be newish.
Having lived for several months on 1000 calories a day (it was actually quite OK after the initial shock) I reckon 500 twice a week is do-able. I
would suggect you actually find something better to eat than a pre-made sandwich and a jelly though, you are probably eating too much crap in those.
(A can of baked beans is only about 300 calories, so one of those over 2 meals, an egg and 3 pieces fruit would be a better bet I reckon)
There's laods of internet info as ever about ADF, but what I patticularly like is that this aapproach and the science around revertig to type, is
taht it focusses more on the other long term health benefits rather than just and "Amazing new weight loss diet".
It also fit's with me being a greedy barsteward and finding it very difficult to things in moderation, better not do them at all.
Fingers crossed
quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
Another classic reply showing the staggering intelligence of some Locosters!
A review of the program summed it up I think. I have started and have been on a low carbs diet now for about 6 months. I am combining this with going to the gym three times a week. I am slightly
overweight according to my BMI (thats a poor scale to be honest). After cutting down on carbs and trying not to eat junk I feel so much better. My
cronic indesgestion has almost gone, I sleep better and I am fitter and healthier.
It is surprising just how little the human body can live on when pressed so a couple of 500 calorie days a week would not be to bad.
Problem for me now is that if I stray from my 'healthy' eating routine I feel awful again almost immediately. I went to a early meeting
today and was given a bacon and egg butty. Should have refused as my indigestion is back and my missus wants to go to a spin class tonight.......!!!
We as a family have had conversations, over similar issues, and even our Doctor confirmed that the BMI is heavly flawed
I am 5'3 and weigh 11.5 stone, and funnyly enough today, was told that my weight was fine , at Drs
yet the BMI chart has me in the obese area, and obese, i am NOT
(i have lung issues, that require 3 monthly check ups)
Another example of this ridiculous chart, was my Father, who was on deaths door 16 months ago, and in east surrey hospital
for several months, he is now 5'0 tall (was about 5'3) and weighed 6 stone, yet the hospital said he was overweight
what a bleeping joke!! he looked like a corpse, and due their negligence was days away from being one
It was only when we got him eating and drinking, did he survive, and he is now around 9 stone, and only last week was told that another half a stone
on, would be ideal, again by his DR
It would be interesting for others to try this NHS site, as ALL of us will be OBESE!!!
http://www.nhs.uk/Tools/Pages/Healthyweightcalculator.aspx
Nope, I am in the healthy weight, BMI 23.5 plus I feel I need to lose a few pounds after over indulging on holiday.
Saying that, BMI is a good way of checking for the majority of people, I would guess 80%. There will always be a few for whom a simplistic scale
won't work.
If I knew I was going to live this long I would have looked after myself too.
Bloody Who..........Hope I die before I get old indeed
Denis the old git
my BMI is 21.29 going by that online calc
but i would say i under weight and could do with another stone on me
I think I will eat the same .......just fit a bigger engine 
The meal of 500 - 600 calories that was shown on the program looked quite substantial - an omelette, plus a few other bits on the side. I'd be
happy to eat it as my meal of the day. If you chose carefully I reckon you could get quite a plateful - loads of vegetables, etc. I couldn't
eat the breakfast that the health freak ate though - a very large bowl of frozen fruit.
The bit that brought it home was when the doctor/professor was talking to the presenter - basically he said that in his present condition his chances
of getting a heart condition, diabetes and/or cancer were 1:1, i.e. certainty. In the case of the health freak, the odds were 1 in 1,000,000, and
then only if he was unlucky.
What me worry?
From the above, the logical extension from the Nanny State will be to label said conditions (heart/cancer/etc.) as avoidable, and due entirely to your
chosen lifestyle. Your fault you developed cancer you silly ignorant person, sorry, can't help you (apart from a morphine pump later on).
BMI is passable for normal folk but it is utter twaddle for lots and lots of people, me included.
I saw a stat which went something a long the lines of the whole world cup winning England squad of 2003 were at best "obese" with most of
the forwards being "morbidly obese".
I'm sorry but there will be another program along in 10 minutes/days/years that says everything in his one is rubbish, and so on and so on - most
educated sensible people know how they should eat, exercise and what we should weigh etc etc to be healthy unfortunately most of us intend to start
doing something about it tomorrow......or maybe the day after because we've got something on tomorrow.......
I'm not really convinced that living longer is a good thing. Overpopulation, later retirement, unemployment, stress on health services, increased poverty caused by pension issues etc. are all major issues caused by our increased lifespan.
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
I'm not really convinced that living longer is a good thing. Overpopulation, later retirement, unemployment, stress on health services, increased poverty caused by pension issues etc. are all major issues caused by our increased lifespan.
Personally I don't smoke, I drink on average less than 1 unit per month, I have kids that keep me in exercise...but I love food, doesn't
have to be fancy, I enjoy eating simple as that
I'm 5'11" 15 Stone (and a little bit) BMI is 29. And if I followed the diet given to me by the Dr. I won't live for ever but will
be misserable. My choice and I accept any consequences.
quote:
Originally posted by steve m
It would be interesting for others to try this NHS site, as ALL of us will be OBESE!!!
http://www.nhs.uk/Tools/Pages/Healthyweightcalculator.aspx
As the guy said. This isn't necessarily about living longer. This is about enjoying being healthy for longer.
The reason there is a problem with an ageing population is because of conditions such as dementia, cancer, heart problems etc. If these were less
prevalent, then there would be no reason why there couldn't be a larger, older but more healthy populous.
Surely being healthy on your short time here is better than a few extra ginsters sausage rolls?
I'm 24 and I plan to do the 2 day a week fasting after watching this. I'm overweight according to the link, however that doesn't take
into account muscle mass (i go to the gym).
Still, the health benefits seem unquestionable, but each to their own!
quote:
Originally posted by twybrow
quote:
Originally posted by steve m
It would be interesting for others to try this NHS site, as ALL of us will be OBESE!!!
http://www.nhs.uk/Tools/Pages/Healthyweightcalculator.aspx
22.22 for me...
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
I'm not really convinced that living longer is a good thing. Overpopulation, later retirement, unemployment, stress on health services, increased poverty caused by pension issues etc. are all major issues caused by our increased lifespan.
Yup!
Anyone got a link to this prog?
its on bbc iplayer
quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
Anyone got a link to this prog?
Yeah, a lot of people are getting this confused with either living longer or loosing weight. The emphasis with this regime is about living healthier
for longer and not getting various diseases.
Well, first day for me yesterday and I have to say it was quite easy except when I got home from work for about 2 hours. But as he said in the
programme the hunger pangs do subside, and by 7pm last night I was not thinking of food at all. I expected to wake up hungry this morning but
didn't, in fact I was less hungry than usual. So just on the basis of a single fast day I would say that was easily maintainable.
The great thing with this is you're not thinking about food all the time and calorie counting every day to loose weight or be fitter, just two
days a week you eat much less and I'm sure I'll get used to knowing what makes up a 500 calorie meal.
So it's a big thumbs up here from me, gonna make tomorrow my second day this week and see how that goes
And for me I'd rather watch the programme than read some flippant review about it.
my wife works away during the week and im a lazy git when it comes to cooking so from tuesday to friday i have a meal at work then live off fruit and
tea plus every evening im in the garage for 4-5 hrs building . lost a stone over a month and feel better plus the next project car is coming along
nicely . i did think that i would be on a food bender at the weekend but getting used to less food makes it easier to feel full and the food bill has
come down by half too
There are so many stupid food fads though, and Horizon are renown for making programs that sensationalise otherwise mundane facts and gloss over
missing data. They make the odd interesting program, but if you have some reasonable knowledge of the subject you will almost certainly spot some
gaping chasms in the claims and arguments put forward.
Moderation in the things you eat and drink, and regular exercise will always be better than following fads.
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
Moderation in the things you eat and drink, and regular exercise will always be better than following fads.
There was a documentary some time ago where they put a group of people in an ape house in a zoo, and fed them the same food as they gave to apes -
mostly raw fruit and veg. The participants didn't find it easy to eat the quantity of food necessary to meet their needs - we've talking
about many hours eating every day, and quite a large volume - and they were very happy to get out at the end of the trial (maybe a week or two -
can't remember).
The relatively healthy people didn't gain much benefit, but the impressive result was with the overweight people, the ones with high blood
pressure, high cholesterol, etc. They showed some weight loss, but a huge improvement in all of those health factors. Most of them went straight out
and ate some fried chicken or a burger afterwards though!
Guys, your talking about something quite different to what was on the programme.
As I've said before, you really need to see the programme before commenting. It's NOT about dieting, or eating healthily, or exercise, or
moderation in all things, or eating raw foods, or any kind of dieting fad.
It's about a very specific thing, fasting, or near fasting, or substantial calorie restriction, and how it actually changes the way the body
behaves in a number of very significant ways, one of the main being that it switches the cells from the usually divide, divide, divide to repair
instead. It also slows down the degradation of DNA as it divides.
So I would suggest you watch the programme before making up your mind about it.
And for those not sure if the 2 days fast need to be consecutive, they don't, I checked it with the presenter on his Twitter feed.
Correct.
I survived my day 1 yesterday on less than 200cal and I feel better already.
Next will be Monday, then wed/thur
As I DO need to lose weight I will combine with a genearl calorie (read beer) reduction as well!
Yeah, same here, done two days this week and already noticed I'm eating less on the non-fast days and generally feeling very alert and full of
energy. Going to start the High Intensity Training next week too, just got to get hold of a second hand exercise bike of GumTree this weekend.
Two things that are easy to do and maintain, yet should improve my health beyond recognition
quote:
Originally posted by steve m
We as a family have had conversations, over similar issues, and even our Doctor confirmed that the BMI is heavly flawed
I am 5'3 and weigh 11.5 stone, and funnyly enough today, was told that my weight was fine , at Drs
yet the BMI chart has me in the obese area, and obese, i am NOT
(i have lung issues, that require 3 monthly check ups)
Another example of this ridiculous chart, was my Father, who was on deaths door 16 months ago, and in east surrey hospital
for several months, he is now 5'0 tall (was about 5'3) and weighed 6 stone, yet the hospital said he was overweight
what a bleeping joke!! he looked like a corpse, and due their negligence was days away from being one
It was only when we got him eating and drinking, did he survive, and he is now around 9 stone, and only last week was told that another half a stone on, would be ideal, again by his DR
It would be interesting for others to try this NHS site, as ALL of us will be OBESE!!!
http://www.nhs.uk/Tools/Pages/Healthyweightcalculator.aspx
quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
So I would suggest you watch the programme before making up your mind about it.
Exactly Mike, the Waitrose sandwich and fruit jelly did not help me to take the original post seriously. I'd like to see some results in 6 months time from whoever does follow it through as I cannot manage to go without food all day without becoming light headed and breaking out in shakes even though I am right in the middle of the ideal BMI on the scale.
So what part of 100 years of research into calorie reduction and fasting do you see as 'bad science'? This is BBC documentary after all,
it's meant to be entertaining as well as informative - otherwise it would be 'Open University'. What would be have had to have done to
give you enough 'real science' for you to want to do it? It seemed to me he spent most of the programme talking to recognised experts in the
field in well known US universities. And you say you want to see some evidence 6 months down the line - who from? You certainly won't believe it
from me or anybody else on Locostbuilders as that would be just circumstantial, not proper research.
I think it's more about the fact that you don't like the idea of sticking to something like this as it takes a little bit of effort. Or the
basic dislike of anything new and 'weird', 'new age' or 'hippy'.
I must say I'd rather find out in 5 years time that this has not helped my long term health at all except for being slimmer (which is a great
result in itself) than find out in 5 years time that this has loads of peer reviewed research behind it and now I'm 5 years older, fatter and
less healthy and other people are 5 years down the line to better long term physical and mental health.
And who said anything about going all day without food - read the posts people - 600 cals a day is two light meals, so no reason to get
light-headed.
Each to their own of course - that's why the country is full of overweight and unhealthy people.
[Edited on 10/8/12 by Jasper]
the 'big numbers' studies into life expectancy increases around the great depression years ought to help convince most non-believers.
Phil.
Well, first week over and lost 3lb, 1.7 kg - not bad since it didn't even feel like I was trying and have done no more exercise than usual
quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
Well, first week over and lost 3lb, 1.7 kg - not bad since it didn't even feel like I was trying and have done no more exercise than usual
Top tip - drink plenty of fluids as you won't be getting as much water from food.
Massive quantities of salad stuff can be had for few calories!
Anybody still on the 5/2 regime?
Nearing the end of the second week now and have lost 6lbs and the increase in energy level is amazing.
just to stick my oar in. I haven't watched the programme but something tells me he you stuck to a traditional calorie controlled diet you'd get the same weight loss over the first couple of weeks. at the start all your doing is a different way to reduce calories. I'm curious how a scientist would prove you have more energy than before as I'm tempted to get the misses on this if its true.
Jasper
Just seeing if your still alive !
Or have the energy to type, due to this ridiculas starve and go diet
hahahaha
steve
yes i'm still at it
FWIW I've lost 4-5 lbs but as the believers know this is the bonus and not the goal
I do feel better, less bloated, a biyt sharper and less inclined to pig out on he feed days
Just saw this on one of my facebook feeds:
http://www.science20.com/cool-links/longevity_caloric_restric
tion_doesnt_hold-93478
Not having a dig at anyone on this diet, just thought it was interesting that a study on the subject on primates has just finished.
Yup, still here, still doing it, on day two of this weeks fast days, 4 weeks in now, and lost around 3kg's - my belt is back to the first hole,
I'm feeling lighter and healthier for sure.
I'm still trying to balance what I eat on my fast days so that I don't get too hungry as this leads to the grumps rather quickly! I tend to
not have breakfast which is fine, have a light salad for lunch and save 400cals for when I get home from work, then have ham/eggs/toast which sees me
through till sleep time.
Even if there are no massive health benefits in the long run, if I can use this method to keep my weight down (45 now) it means I can eat more of what
I like on the other days without feeling guilty.
I've also been doing the 3 minutes a week HIT on an exercise bike for the last 3 weeks and again have noticed a difference, especially in my
recovery time and heart rate. First two times I did it for 1 minute I felt really buggered afterwards, very out of breath, high heart rate and achy
legs for a while after. Now I can do it and I recover much quicker so it must be doing something.
As people have said there will always be new fads and new research to say fasting does of doesn't work, but still the overwhelming evidence from
100 years of research shows it does have many benefits.
I saw it and thought, I'll go Wednesdays because that won't affect my life too much.
So, I managed until tea time and my wife and daughter had cooked cakes, it smelled so good I just had to give in.
Will try next Wednesday, here's hoping that the weather is better so I can walk the dog.
Well I've just lost 4 kilos in 3 days on the Nora virus diet.
btw, dad is doing the 5/2 fasting and is quiet enjoying it.
I just watched the show with the Mrs (we had recorded it)... Fascinating stuff. How some of the people in this thread can critique it for being light
on science is a surprise.... As already said, the show/presenter talked to a number of universities, all approaching the subject/research in slightly
different ways. The evidence was quite compelling that the techniques could have a profound affect on the way our bodies behave - as Jasper has said,
it was not about some fad diet to lose weight - the weight loss was an added bonus. The evidence on brain cell development in particular was very
interesting indeed.
I would not expect everyone to suddenly adopt this lifestyle - I am still pondering whether short term misery is worth the potential for long term
gains! But to be honest, it doesn't seem that hard a concept to try out for a year and see how I get on. I am already on the good side of my BMI
range, so it is not about losing the pounds for me - I just don't want the early onset of dementia, pancreatic cancer, prostate cancer,
Alzheimers etc...
Thanks for making me aware of the show Jasper - very interesting.
You're welcome!
After doing it for 4 weeks I have come to a decision - my wife is unwell at the moment (long term ill but not too seriously luckily) and is rather
pissed off a lot of the time, understandably - and when I do fast it does certainly make me a bit grumpy. At the moment we don't need the extra
stress or grumpiness, life is just too hard at the moment (other family members not well etc) so I'm going to stop fasting until things settle
out at home again.
I'm really glad I've done what I've done, I've proved to myself I can do it and stick to it, even if it's just for a few
weeks, I've lost nearly 7lbs and am back to a 32inch waist.
So once by wife is feeling better and things at home and with the family become more easy I will definitely be starting it again. At the moment I need
to be doing as many 'nice' things as possible and not giving myself a tougher time than is necessary. I will also continue to do the HIT on
the exercise bike 3 times a week as that's nice and easy.
One thing though, I will certainly be eating healthier than I did before and watching out for some of the higher calorie foods.
Hope you all do well on it
quote:
Originally posted by liam.mccaffrey
Well I've just lost 4 kilos in 3 days on the Nora virus diet.
btw, dad is doing the 5/2 fasting and is quiet enjoying it.
Just by way of an update and perhaps to offer encouragement, I have been following the Horizon 5/2 regime since the beginning of August and I have
never felt better in my life. As a bi-product, I have lost over 20lbs in weight and like Jasper, now back to a 32" waist.
I have found the 5/2 regime very easy to live with and in fact it is a way of life now.
John
You know what? When I was a kid we didn't have a car, mam worked at the school at the end of the road and dad just pedaled EVERYWHERE!
Pedaled to work, pedaled to the cycling club, and came home and pedaled his guts out on rollers in the bedroom..
He then promptly dropped dead when he was 52, fit as a lop and skinny to boot..
Then theres me, I see eating as a function and if the wife is out I dont bother much, take a box full of salad to work, have a yogurt or banana for
breakfast, cornflakes for supper.
According to that calculator I'm 26.9 and a fat fella.. I'm lethargic, can easy sleep 12 hours a day, have no motivation and drink far too
much. And, thats the way its staying..
Im eating over 2,000 calories a day and struggling to put any weight on bmi comes out at 19.6 btw.
Good to hear John, I've had to come off it as my wife has been really unwell the last few months and I need to be cooking every night for the
family which makes it VERY hard.
She's on the mend now so planning to do it again from January. I did put a bit of the weight back on but not most of it was is great.
quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
Good to hear John, I've had to come off it as my wife has been really unwell the last few months and I need to be cooking every night for the family which makes it VERY hard.
She's on the mend now so planning to do it again from January. I did put a bit of the weight back on but not most of it was is great.
Well, as promised I'm back on the fasting now from today, and as my wife is on the mend she's doing it to. Just as well as I think I've
put a stone back on since stopping it before which I really don't like.
So it's back to the fruit teas and Boots Shapers salads!
I'm really glad your wife is on the mend Jasper, good news indeed.
For me, the 5/2 is a way of life now and I can honestly say that I've never felt better and I have found it an effortless way to control my
weight.
John
Thanks John
Having quite a high metabolism (if I don't eat for about 4 hours I start getting a bit weird!) I don't find it that easy, BUT it's
certainly a much better than the other options so I'm going to stick to it for sure.
quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
Thanks John
Having quite a high metabolism (if I don't eat for about 4 hours I start getting a bit weird!) I don't find it that easy, BUT it's certainly a much better than the other options so I'm going to stick to it for sure.
Update time for anyone interested:
I've been fasting for 2 months now and lost 5.5kg (I'm 6'2" and was 87.5kg), gone from a 34" to easy 32" waist, feel
more alert, more energy and the fasting has got really easy now. I'm even wearing skinny trousers now!
I'm no longer 'scared' of being hungry, in the past if I got hungry I had to eat straight away or risk irritability, light-headedness
and lack of concentration. Now I get hungry and know it will pass and if I get hungry again later it will not be any worse, I don't get more
hungry as the day goes on. I'm not grumpy or light-headed any more. Fast days feel good, I know I'm improving my health and I know it's
for the long term. And when I have a big blow out meal at the weekend, or drink lots of beers it will have no effect on my weight or health. So I can
pig out guilt free if I want.
What's really interesting is I find I'm now eating better on my normal days, I'm eating less crap food generally as I just don't
fancy it as much. And the more people I talk to about it the more I discover just how many other people are either doing it or thinking of doing
it.
We bought the book a couple of weeks ago (£4 on Amazon) and it has helped explain the whole process much better than the TV programme did:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fast-Diet-Intermittent-Fasting-Healthy/dp/1780721676/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1362567127&sr=1-1
So for anybody thinking about it I would totally recommend it, it's very very easy.
Almost impossible to do a realistic scientific assessment of this, at any level. You can't have a control group of fasters who cruicially
don't know they're fasting, and their involvement in a study will have effects on their wellbeing (well proven placebo effect). You'd
need to have two totally separate, identical populations where the only difference was the fasting, which is borderline impossible. Anyone you ask
about it who is doing it is already convinced of the benefits enough to change their life routine, which makes them a very poor judge of the real
result.
As far as I was aware (which clearly won't be up to date as it's not my research field) this had only been /proven/ in animal models and
no-one knew if it translated to humans effectively. That was only a year or so ago. I'd be wary, Horizon has a habit of taking the latest
murmurings of science and converting it into the next big thing, which never happens.
I personally get massive headaches, visual disturbances and massive mood swings when I miss a meal. Can't see fasting for 2 days helping my
quality of life.
[Edited on 6/3/13 by coyoteboy]
I hadnt heard from Jasper for so long, i thought he had died
But at least when i next see him he will be thinner,
Steve
I wonder if the same thing works for alcohol. Drink for five days and the fast for two. I think that I might try it... in fact, I seem to recall
doing this when I was a student and I was a lot thinner then, so it must work
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
Almost impossible to do a realistic scientific assessment of this, at any level. You can't have a control group of fasters who cruicially don't know they're fasting, and their involvement in a study will have effects on their wellbeing (well proven placebo effect). You'd need to have two totally separate, identical populations where the only difference was the fasting, which is borderline impossible. Anyone you ask about it who is doing it is already convinced of the benefits enough to change their life routine, which makes them a very poor judge of the real result.
As far as I was aware (which clearly won't be up to date as it's not my research field) this had only been /proven/ in animal models and no-one knew if it translated to humans effectively. That was only a year or so ago. I'd be wary, Horizon has a habit of taking the latest murmurings of science and converting it into the next big thing, which never happens.
I personally get massive headaches, visual disturbances and massive mood swings when I miss a meal. Can't see fasting for 2 days helping my quality of life.
[Edited on 6/3/13 by coyoteboy]
Randomly the misses decided to lose the baby weight and wanted to keep motivated so she roped me in. We're on a competitive diet. Every month
whoever has lost the most percentage body weight wins. We've been at it two months and i've won both times. Total weight loss is approx 8kg
(5 week month and 4 week month) and is now usually around 1%.
This has been done by having 2 weetabix, semi skimmed milk and fake sugar for breakfast. Sandwich (one of the lower calorie ones with either green or
amber colours) and crisps for lunch. Then usually having a healthish dinner but making sure what ever I eat I don't have a massive plate full
and the food is nearly always home cooked with some sensibility about content (i don't do salad before someone wonders).
I occasionally eat chocolate biscuits. For pancake day we ate 1litre of mix between us and I had butter and mapple syrupe on lots of mine. Had
chocolate dessert, melted cheese starter, steak & chips for valentines. Takeaway usually once a week. I also drink lots of tea or water.
I feel hungry some times but remind myself I've eaten a decent amount and will win. I do feel better but i'm carrying nearly 10% less body
weight.
Perhaps the reality is we just need to eat less and what we do eat needs to be less processed crap with lots of added bad sugar / fat / salt /
don't ask.
I've ordered the book and am gonna give it a try. I didn't watch the programme on TV and I haven't heard much about it but I find
myself intrigued by some of the posts on this thread. I have a sedentary office job and travel 60 miles a day to/from home, eat healthily through the
week and play squash at least once a week. Weekends are my downfall, I'll have a few beers on a Friday night and usually a takeaway on Saturday.
I don't eat much during the day on weekdays, so reckon I could quite easily do two fasting days per week. This diet seems to fit with my
lifestyle, so I figure I've got nothing to lose (other than £4 for the book) and everything to gain if it does indeed work.
Phil
quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
Randomly the misses decided to lose the baby weight and wanted to keep motivated so she roped me in. We're on a competitive diet. Every month whoever has lost the most percentage body weight wins. We've been at it two months and i've won both times. Total weight loss is approx 8kg (5 week month and 4 week month) and is now usually around 1%.
This has been done by having 2 weetabix, semi skimmed milk and fake sugar for breakfast. Sandwich (one of the lower calorie ones with either green or amber colours) and crisps for lunch. Then usually having a healthish dinner but making sure what ever I eat I don't have a massive plate full and the food is nearly always home cooked with some sensibility about content (i don't do salad before someone wonders).
I occasionally eat chocolate biscuits. For pancake day we ate 1litre of mix between us and I had butter and mapple syrupe on lots of mine. Had chocolate dessert, melted cheese starter, steak & chips for valentines. Takeaway usually once a week. I also drink lots of tea or water.
I feel hungry some times but remind myself I've eaten a decent amount and will win. I do feel better but i'm carrying nearly 10% less body weight.
Perhaps the reality is we just need to eat less and what we do eat needs to be less processed crap with lots of added bad sugar / fat / salt / don't ask.
At seventy years old with most of my future behind as you might say, me the possibility of buying time for one last project was too good to miss.
I've been following the Eat, Fast, Live Longer regime now for six months and the benefits to me are incredible. Prior to adopting the diet, I was
on medication for high blood pressure and after one month of following the diet, I stopped the tablets and my blood pressure has remained normal ever
since. Energy levels have never been higher and I have a feeling of wellbeing and that all is very well in the world.
Now, the last benefits that I really didn't expect are that my asthma has cleared up as well as the arthritis. So, I am medication free and feel
twenty years younger.
The regime may not suit everyone but by Jove it has worked for me
You're an inspiration John!
As I was completely healthy to start with it's been harder for me to see any health benefits, though I know they're there
quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
You're an inspiration John!
As I was completely healthy to start with it's been harder for me to see any health benefits, though I know they're there
It's too hard to say and be subjective I think. I do feel generally better though, more alert, more energy etc.
Today I'm try a new way of doing it they talk about in the book, 24hr fast, dinner time to dinner time. So last night I had a big curry with
mates, and have not eaten since then. I'm no more hungry today than if I'd had breakfast this morning, and it means that tonight I can eat
normally from 7pm, so don't have to have a low calorie dinner. However I have noticed that I can't eat a big meal after a days fasting, so
I'll have a small meal about 7pm, then have some toast/cheese etc later on once that has gone down. I don't know if this will be a regular
thing, but I had noticed that when I had a small breakfast I was still getting hungry a couple of hours later anyway, so this way I'm no more
hungry but can eat normally tonight.
That's the great thing with this system, you can adapt it to what suits you at any given time/week.
Me and the Mrs have been on this for about 8 weeks and have to say it's working well.
it was only by chance i heard about this as missed the original programe, it was on BBC breafast i saw somthing about it.
i've gone from 12.5 stone to almost 11.5, plus we had a week away snowboarding so didn't do it that week.
we do mondays and thursdays, and only have one 500 calorie meal during the evening and just drink water during the day.
this is fascinating. normally id put comments like these down to promotional lies. as I 'know' you lot I'm not of that view. love to see the results after 10 years. having said that, really thinking about taking this on now, why wait 10 years?
quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
this is fascinating. normally id put comments like these down to promotional lies. as I 'know' you lot I'm not of that view. love to see the results after 10 years. having said that, really thinking about taking this on now, why wait 10 years?
I think something here needs clarifying:
Horizon and Dr Moseley did not come up with the research on the value of fasting to the human body. This research has been ongoing for over 100 years
now, it is VERY well known that fasting has all sorts of superb long term health benefits that have been talked about in this thread. Many of these
show up in standard blood tests that can be gone by your GP - ones for Diabetes, cholesterol, etc etc. And yes, it is a good idea to have them done
before starting to fast then 6 months later. He advocates this in his book.
What Mike Moseley did was to find out how little you actually need to fast to get these benefits. In the past it was thought you at least needed to
fast every other day. He showed through blood testing and other medical tests that these benefits can be got through Intermittent Fasting, 2 days a
week, 500-600 calories a day. In other words he came up with a system that is doable for most people and yet you get most if not all the already well
known benefits from more serious fasting.
So please people, stop claiming that Horizon and the BBC came up with the idea that fasting is great, they didn't, only a way of doing it that we
can manage in our daily lives.
I'm 60.
I do not make any lifestyle allowances, I do what I enjoy.
According to the 'experts' I drink too much (beer, and now wine), eat too much, don't get enough exercise and had, I am told, a
'stressful' job!
I have lived a few more years than Richard Burton, who drank the same volume as I do, but he had Vodka/Whisky, and had a few women while he was
playing hard. He died at 53.
I have also lived longer than 'Jim' Fixx, who invented 'jogging' with his Complete book of Running. He lived a healthy lifestyle
and dropped dead after a run, at 53 years old!
It's all down to genetics, and living the healthy lifestyle is no guarantee of having a healthy life, or longevity.
quote:
Originally posted by designer
It's all down to genetics, and living the healthy lifestyle is no guarantee of having a healthy life, or longevity.
I have gone from a 46 " waist to a size 32"
I changed my diet and cut out all foods that I can not ascertain their origin.
All processed crap got the boot and I cook everything from scratch.
The health benefits have been huge , I used to have serious issues with asthma .....now gone.
Its done wonders for my mental health as well as well as my joints ect
Last night I was out and had fried fish for a treat ...... Dam heartburn was back like hell
As for this nonsenses of starving for two days ....all you will do is put the body starvation response mode.
When the food does return it gets retained as fat.
Was married to a YoYo dieter seen it first hand..
quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
quote:
Originally posted by designer
It's all down to genetics, and living the healthy lifestyle is no guarantee of having a healthy life, or longevity.
Do carry on believing this if it makes you feel better about the way you live your life, but it's frankly just not true - like so much else espoused by people on this thread who have no interest in improving the quality and quantity of their lives. If it were all down to genetics we would all be living the same lives as our ancestors were, which is very clearly not the case. Of course there are no guarantees in this world, nobody is saying there is.
i have crohns disease , surely god wont strike me down twice......
I don't know why I bother posting information on this site, to be called 'very suggestible' is just f*cking rude and you can go f*ck
yourself. I take an interest in my life and my health, and when something comes along that is clearly very beneficial I thought it would be good to
share it on here. Obviously I was clearly wrong, the vast majority of you just seem happy to stay stuck where you are.
The amount of people who have expressed an opinion without actually understanding what we are talking about is amazing.
I have not posted my opinion on it, just what I have heard and read and experienced myself. If you aren't interested then fine, I really
don't give a sh*t. I really don't want to read loads of sad blokes limited views on their lives, you're all welcome to them.
I'm glad a few people have taken the time like I have to look into this properly, not just assumed it was something they already know everything
there is to know about. I like to think I'm open-minded, and is just as well, in the 13 years I have been married to my wife she has had two rare
and chronic illnesses, both times I went out and found the latest cutting edge treatments, both times this has proved to be a life saver, literally.
quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
Almost impossible to do a realistic scientific assessment of this, at any level. You can't have a control group of fasters who cruicially don't know they're fasting, and their involvement in a study will have effects on their wellbeing (well proven placebo effect). You'd need to have two totally separate, identical populations where the only difference was the fasting, which is borderline impossible. Anyone you ask about it who is doing it is already convinced of the benefits enough to change their life routine, which makes them a very poor judge of the real result.
As far as I was aware (which clearly won't be up to date as it's not my research field) this had only been /proven/ in animal models and no-one knew if it translated to humans effectively. That was only a year or so ago. I'd be wary, Horizon has a habit of taking the latest murmurings of science and converting it into the next big thing, which never happens.
I personally get massive headaches, visual disturbances and massive mood swings when I miss a meal. Can't see fasting for 2 days helping my quality of life.
[Edited on 6/3/13 by coyoteboy]
Wrong on so many levels. Of course you can do studies on the effects of fasting on humans if they know they are fasting. You can do a whole raft of medical tests on the body to see the effects on fasting, both in the short and long term.
Fasting is one of the most studies area's of medical research, with many many studies both in humans and animals. It's interesting how many people on here have an opinion without even trying it, reading the book or even watching the TV programme!
quote:
Originally posted by JasperHe found out that reducing calories just 2 days a week gives you nearly all the huge benefits of doing it everyday. So any two days a week you eat just 500 calories, about equal to a regular sandwich and a piece of fruit.
So this morning I have started - went to Waitrose and got a sandwich a fruit jelly for lunch- total of 500 calories and that will be it for the day.
Wasn't the other option to the 5:2 being every other day?
Has anyone tried that?
Also is there anything about it having to be the same two days each week? My major eating problem is through work-related boredom (was 14 stone when I
started security 4 years ago, now just under 19)
Your looking at it all wrong. The obvious solution to our western fatness is to get taller, not thinner.
The idea of fasting is big part of the Primal Blueprint lifestyle iam following. The Mark Sisson books are well worth a read.
I find the PB lifestyle easier than Paleo as its not quite as strict. The fasting doesn't need to be full days or a regimented same time each
week. Think what it would have Been like to live before the agricultural era. Some days there would be loads to eat off the trees and bushes, others
an animal would be caught. Some days very little. On every day - no grains or processed foods. The theory is that as humans our dietary requirements
haven't evolved that much and we are causing our own problems by over producing foods that we were never designed to eat in the first place.
How long would an average family car last if run on ethanol and driven flat out every day compared to its design life?
If you go even deeper into the exercise part of these lifestyles, it all gets a whole lot more interesting, and far easier than you will
think...............
[Edited on 11/3/13 by DarrenW]
quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
Just a quick update if anyone is interested:
A mate of mine who has a chronic pancreatic condition (lives on a very reduced fat diet) started the 5:2 plan at Christmas and had a blood test at the
time (which he has to have regularly). In April he had another blood test and the results were his Cholesterol went from 4.9 to 3.5 and his Hdl went
up 0.2, and he's lost 1.5 stone. He's understandably very happy as he has not had good health for many years and looks and apparently feels
great now.
My weight has stabilised at about 80kg - 12.6 stone which is perfect for me as I'm about 6'2". My waste has gone from a 35" to a
32" and I can fit in my skinny trousers again. Fasting has now become a part of my week and really easy most of the time. I'm now enjoying
cooking and eating much more as I cook and eat what I really want to the rest of the time guilt free.
Great news. Glad it's working out for you... I suspect the fasting idea is probably a good one as we evolved with what would have been a limited
and sporadic supply of food before we all became farmers, then couch potatoes, evolution can't keep up!
Good luck with it!
Dan
Suspect we didn't live with sporadic food as we were hunter gatherers.
^^ that is sporadic by definition??? Dependent on seasons, weather and if you can catch something to eat, by definition random, some days you win
someday you don't and you go hungry???
[Edited on 14/5/13 by Bluemoon]
Yeah - maybe they had Tesco's and MacDonalds back then
I think you'll finding hunting with a spear would have been VERY sporadic!
Hunting maybe, but most indigenous tribes that still hunt/gather rarely go hungry for days on end from what I've read unless there's an
unusual event (drought etc) - they collect enough of their staple forms to eat regularly in minimal quantities and protein comes in bursts as a kill
is made. You wouldn't live somewhere where the food sources were that scarce that you couldn't guarantee at least SOME form of food,
you'd move to a different location. Generally humans set up a spot where they have a good selection.
Unless, of course, this diet is a meat only with periods of starvation and I missed the original point?
[Edited on 14/5/13 by coyoteboy]
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
Hunting maybe, but most indigenous tribes that still hunt/gather rarely go hungry for days on end from what I've read unless there's an unusual event (drought etc) - they collect enough of their staple forms to eat regularly in minimal quantities and protein comes in bursts as a kill is made. You wouldn't live somewhere where the food sources were that scarce that you couldn't guarantee at least SOME form of food, you'd move to a different location. Generally humans set up a spot where they have a good selection.
Unless, of course, this diet is a meat only with periods of starvation and I missed the original point?
[Edited on 14/5/13 by coyoteboy]
I'm not sure it's utopia for someone used to a western world, but if it helps your point, sure
We only moved to farming when our populations outgrew what could be gathered locally, not because we were starving? Back in the days when this diet is
based on (pre farming) plenty could be gathered locally.
Why on earth would it be difficult in forested UK, you are aware of how much food can be gathered for a small clan in a sparsely populated forest area
(especially a historic one where most of the mammals haven't been hunted to oblivion by excessive human numbers).
If you don't think it's true, why are there still thousands of tribes across the world who are not starving or living in hardship and still
working on a hunter-gatherer basis, not farming or eating at Tesco? Just because it's alien to us doesn't mean it's difficult or rife
with starvation.
In any case, not going to post any more it's getting off the OP's point; and I can tell this will just get boring will agree to
disagree...
Dan
Bump
Just watched it now... wondering if anyone's kept up with it for the past 10 months now and how they're doing from it?
They have probably died, through malnutrition,
Sad really, as i liked old Jasper
[Edited on 30/6/13 by steve m]
Yeah - hahaha
I've been doing it for 6 months solid now, and three months last autumn. My weight has settled at about 81.kg which is fine as I'm
6'1", and I do almost no exercise at all. On a fast day today actually after my first week not fasting last week (had a death in the
family).
I feel great, got a 32 inch waist, fit in my old Mod clothes again and I'm enjoying food on my non-fast days far more than any other time over
the last few years as I had put on 2 stone and felt the guilty when over eating.
Fast days are relatively easy, fruit smoothie for breakfast (150kcal) then nothing till a M&S Fuller for Longer dinner at about 7pm. Interesting
thing is I still get grumpy when hungry on non-fast days and I know I can eat, on fast days I don't get the grumps. And the hunger doesn't
increase during the day when fasting, it comes in waves which pass just as quick as they come, and I always know I can eat as much as I like tomorrow.
For me the bit of hunger I feel twice a week is as small price to pay for the weight and health benefits.
A mate of mine who has a knackered pancreas and has to be super careful about his diet has also been on it since the New Year. His doctor has been
stunned at his blood test results as he gets checked regularly - and he's lost 2 stone.
I had my blood levels checked just before starting this plan a month ago and am having them done again in a few months, so should be able to compare
before and after. I've lost about 6lbs in weight since starting this plan but then I didn't start it primarily for the weight loss. I find
the fasting days quite easy and also play squash on one of those days. My game seems to be much sharper and my energy levels higher when I
haven't eaten much that day
I have noticed that I over-compensate by having something to eat at supper time on the days before my fasting days, which might explain why my weight
loss hasn't been great Just need to kick that before it becomes a regular thing.....
Phil
Glad to here it's going well! I wouldn't worry about the slight over-compensation, they reckon most people eat about 10% more on non-fast
days either side of fasting ones, and this still leads to good weight loss.
I often have a piece of toast about 9pm before a fast day 'just in case' - but rarely wake up starving the day after a fast day. I've
lost about 2 stone and that's with a bit of over-eating on other days. That's the nice thing about fasting, you can have a guilt free pig
out!
So, how did this work out in the end?
Well Jasper hasn't been on here since Feb. So ....
Maybe he wasted away
Maybe he's inundated with gorgeous women
Maybe he's just found something else to do
Shame as I'd love to hear how he's got on (esp as misses started a new diet two weeks ago)
I've not heard from Jasper either but having followed the 5/2 regime now for over two years I am pleased to report that for me it has proved a
terrific success. I've found it very easy to sustain and and it has become a way of life. Weight loss is a useful by-product but the main benefit
is improved health and an amazing increase in energy; just like running on rocket fuel.
John
I've been on it now for about 17 months. My cholesterol levels have reduced significantly and last time I checked, they were back within normal
limits. It's becoming a way of life and although I haven't had any significant weight loss, I don't really need to watch what I eat on
the 5 days I eat normal. I still tend to overcompensate on the day before though.....
My energy levels are much better on restricted calories days, so I arrange my squash games on those days.
Phil
I'm quite interested in this actually - although I haven't read the whole thing.
What do you guys eat on the restricted days?
G
quote:
Originally posted by Northy
I'm quite interested in this actually - although I haven't read the whole thing.
What do you guys eat on the restricted days?
G
Eat, dump, and be happy!
It's pretty interesting to see the correlation between fad diets and their advocate's financial gains, and the total variation from the academic-study-driven advice of public health professionals.
quote:
Originally posted by Johneturbo
Me and the Mrs have been on this for about 8 weeks and have to say it's working well.
it was only by chance i heard about this as missed the original programe, it was on BBC breafast i saw somthing about it.
i've gone from 12.5 stone to almost 11.5, plus we had a week away snowboarding so didn't do it that week.
we do mondays and thursdays, and only have one 500 calorie meal during the evening and just drink water during the day.
I´m OFF THE SCALE!!!
Went to the site and ran the numbers...
http://www.nhs.uk/Tools/Pages/Healthyweightcalculator.aspx
On the other side it lists my "Ideal Bodyweight" @ 53 to 72 kg.
Even as 72 may be possible, whenever I Reach 84 I look like I´m Sick and on the verge of dying...
I´d love to see some day 80 kg, but age related lazyness has prevented me from reaching that goal...