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A case of 'Triggers Broom'?
jps - 10/12/15 at 09:45 AM

Interested to see the news item on the B-52, which will apparently see active service into it's 80's...

BBC news story

Without knowing anything about aircraft maintainence, but with an idea that pretty comprehensive rebuilds happen during a planes 'lifetime' is it a case of 'triggers broom' - i.e. none of the original aircraft is actually left?

As a relative youngster I probably do tend to the expectation that items made pre-1982 have all crumbled into dust by now... (Although I suppose the Flying Scotsman, etc are still trundling around from time to time...)

britishtrident - 10/12/15 at 10:37 AM

quote:
Originally posted by jps
Interested to see the news item on the B-52, which will apparently see active service into it's 80's...

BBC news story

Without knowing anything about aircraft maintainence, but with an idea that pretty comprehensive rebuilds happen during a planes 'lifetime' is it a case of 'triggers broom' - i.e. none of the original aircraft is actually left?

As a relative youngster I probably do tend to the expectation that items made pre-1982 have all crumbled into dust by now... (Although I suppose the Flying Scotsman, etc are still trundling around from time to time...)


The current government has just bought even older 1961 vintage RC-135 Rivet Joint aircraft off the USAF to replace the rebuilt Nimrod ELINT aircraft they had already bought and paid for.

The defense policy of the UK is in ruins yet they keep increasing the foreign aid budget.

Sam_68 - 10/12/15 at 11:29 AM

It was an interesting article, I thought.

Like you, I wondered how much of the aircraft would be original. Obviously, the engines will have had multiple replacements/rebuilds, avionics updated, and all moving parts replaced as they wear out, but they do give the impression that the basic airframes are as tough as old boots?

JC - 10/12/15 at 11:34 AM

With modern airliners, it is pressurisation cycles that determine airframe life - you can only inflate/deflate the cabin like a balloon so many times! On the B52, the crew sit in a much smaller pressurised 'capsule' that is pressurised to a lower pressure differential than an airliner cabin. This means these can last much longer. These aircraft have probably had new wing spars, but a lot will still be original - see one up close and you can see the wrinkles in the skin! There has also been talk of putting 4 modern turbofans on them in place of the 8 old turbojets in recent times...

JeffHs - 10/12/15 at 12:34 PM

[ items made pre-1982 have all crumbled into dust by now.



So not true! Stuff made then could be fixed by ordinary mortals and made to keep on going. We regularly fly a 50s designed, 66 built aircraft with no concerns about longevity at all. Admittedly some parts are getting very hard to find but nothing's stopped us yet.

snapper - 10/12/15 at 04:54 PM

My car is a 7 version of triggers broom
3 engines
2 gearbox's
3 diffs
2 sets of wheels
4 sets of carbs
3 manifolds
1 set of throttle bodies
3 mega jolts

And I keep buying stuff

sdh2903 - 10/12/15 at 05:05 PM

The aircraft have been re-engined, all the moving parts such as landing gear, flight control actuators etc will have all been overhauled. Avionics has been upgraded a few times. The fuselage as previously said isn't pressurised as modern airliners are hence the reason if you do see one at a show on the ground they are battered! So in answer to the question I would hazard a guess at the fuselage, wing, vertical stab would all be original. I can't see a wing spar replacement being feasible to be honest.

Sounds like they were built to take rough airfields and lots of active service hence why they are lasting well. Still wouldn't fancy a 40hr mission on one. Sod that!!

Talon Motorsport - 10/12/15 at 06:05 PM

I was made pre 1982 and yes I am indeed slowly falling to bits.....

David Jenkins - 10/12/15 at 06:29 PM

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
Sounds like they were built to take rough airfields and lots of active service hence why they are lasting well. Still wouldn't fancy a 40hr mission on one. Sod that!!


It's the bit that says that you can't stand up straight unless you stand on the ladder - that would finish me off.

sdh2903 - 10/12/15 at 06:56 PM

Either that or the honey bucket would!

mcerd1 - 10/12/15 at 10:25 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jps
As a relative youngster I probably do tend to the expectation that items made pre-1982 have all crumbled into dust by now... (Although I suppose the Flying Scotsman, etc are still trundling around from time to time...)


actually the Flying Scotsman itself is just finishing a extremely big overhaul and has had all kinds of replacement parts over the years (and not always the correct parts, including the boiler) and is due back on the rails next year for the first time in quite a while. Its a big old lump of iron and copper, but you'd be amazed how much of an engineering challenge it is to repair and maintain cutting edge 1920's tech today....

as above the B52 is a bit of a special case as aircraft go - also the way they were used in there early life didn't stress them as much as we stressed our V force bombers.
When you look at an operational B52 up close and see just how wrinkled and battered it actually is you'll believe that its 60+ years old



One of the design engineers working on the st Pancras rebuild summed it up nicely:
the new fancy steel and glass stuff they were building has a design life of 50 to 120 years, after that it could need all kinds of fancy new bits or rebuilding (50 years is typical for all new buildings btw)
but the old Victorian bits they restored only needed a wire brush and a coat of paint every few years and could be expected to last for hundreds of years !


my pinto engine has suffered all kinds of abuse, but a clean up and a rebore later its as good as new. I don't think many modern engines would survive the same way as the 70's designed lump of iron.... however the 1989 Granada it was in basically dissolved around it

quote:
Originally posted by Talon Motorsport
I was made pre 1982 and yes I am indeed slowly falling to bits.....

I'm an early 82 model - I'm also slowly falling apart....

[Edited on 10/12/2015 by mcerd1]

Canada EH! - 11/12/15 at 01:28 AM

There are 4 DC3 (Dakota) aircraft which are maintained locally and are used for Arctic and Antarctic exploration. They are Basler Conversions (totally rebuilt and turboprop engines).

There are locally made sensor booms which hang from the bottom of the fuselage which are deployed in flight.

The planes are equipped with wheel skies all year around.

I believe the last one of these was built in 1946.

One is named POLAR 5.

ste - 11/12/15 at 06:15 AM

You can compare them to cars in a way that the B52 is like a truck, high mileage, slow and over engineered. A fighter, like Typhoon is like an F1 car, built to be as light and fast as possible; a compromise between weight and durability. Obviously this limits the life span of the fighter but mean that the bomber can afford to be built stronger and as such enjoys greater airframe reliability.

thefreak - 11/12/15 at 01:28 PM

If you like a good book, Dale Brown is an ex navigator-bombardier who flew B52s in the 80s and has written many military-action-aviation adventure novels featuring the BUFF.

Some of his stories are actually quite scary in future predictions! Also has some great ideas on how the plane should be updated with carbon skins, stealth capabilities and frikkin laser beams