They're moving production abroad.
Poo.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6062084.stm
Hell in a hand cart etc.
Neil.
bugger
Yet another slice of British manufacturing gone forever.
Another UK based automotive supplier I worked for years ago recently announced closure at the end of 2007. 250 decent paid jobs going to Eastern
Europe
Yippee, we'll all be working in call centers and supermarkets soon................................................. 
250 jobs?
Directly yes... what about the sub-contractors, suppliers and associated related workers who will also loose their jobs as a result. An increase in
unemployemnt announced today to 1.7 million? Pull the other one!!! It's about time the (fake) registered disabled and claimants on the Social had
to work to earn/keep their handouts. Oh hang on - what jobs, the immigrants got them all!
Not a racist at all but I think this country is properly shi tting it...
Steve
Just heard the news on the radio
I have to agree with Steve from Hellfire re the wasters in this country.
We have some Poles with us working at the moment as, do many local companies. They are keen reliable and good workers (80 percent of them at least)
and even they can't work out how the skivers in britain get away with it.
Soon we will be a third world country and all the business's will be back here for the cheap labour. What goes around comes around.
at least we still make london taxis !
quote:
Originally posted by ch1ll1
at least we still make london taxis !
i agree too
there are too many people allowed in here !
you never see them with poo trainers on or crap clothes!
cause we pay for them !
and give them our jobs!
i spend alot of time in africa,
where, if i could afford to work i would earn around £7 a month !
but as im english the bribes you have to pay and english prices means i carnt afford to do so !
they look at us as kings ( in there eyes we are ) and i never get anything for free over there !
not that i want too !
[Edited on 18/10/06 by ch1ll1]
[Edited on 18/10/06 by ch1ll1]
quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
250 jobs?
Directly yes... what about the sub-contractors, suppliers and associated related workers who will also loose their jobs as a result. An increase in unemployemnt announced today to 1.7 million? Pull the other one!!! It's about time the (fake) registered disabled and claimants on the Social had to work to earn/keep their handouts. Oh hang on - what jobs, the immigrants got them all!
Not a racist at all but I think this country is properly shi tting it...
Steve
eh? before the Daily Mail brigade get their knickers in a twist, TVR going away is nowt to do with immigration
its to do with inefficient british manufacturinig techniques, companies run on victorian values, lack of investment in new technology
but more importantly - not enough people buying the cars.
that simple.
how many people here own a tvr?
the leather is most likely to come from italy, eastern europe or brazil so that wont help our economy.
Aren't TVR's Sierra based? might impact our parts supply.
[Edited on 18/10/06 by Hammerhead]
if britain still had victorian values we would still Rule the world
can you show us what Labours values have done
I cant see anything apart from looking out my window now 6 scum bags sitting on a bench drinking SKOL
and wow wee "2 Community we'll work for free cause were Saft Officers"
and guess what there doing booking parked Cars
"if britain still had victorian values we would still rule the world"
not true at all. We only ruled the world during victorias reign by systematic barbarity, ethnic cleansing, and generally being horrible to everyone we
met.
not acceptable then, and even less so now.
I ask the question again- how many people on this site actually walked the walk with TVR?
how many people parted with hard earned cash?
We are all petrolheads, we should be pretty much the target audience for a new or used TVR...
Very few people bought them.
nowt to do with any layabout outside your house. If you wanted to protect British industry, then you should have bought a TVR, and you should have
bought a Rover if you couldnt afford the TVR.....
Me? never owned a Rover, never owned a TVR. Just like the majority of folk who then moan when the companies go bust.
None of the ones I've seen are, they are mostly bespoke parts. The welding on the ones I've seen was nothing to shout about though and the body design has never appealed to me. There were some nice Polish lads living down the road from us a while back working in a local boiler factory whie the lads who live round here are happier drawing their dole, chasing skirt and playing footy on the street instead of working, wasters who will probably have 2 or 3 kids by different teenage mothers and not pay a penny into the system while relying on the state to support them and their offspring. Fair play to the immigrant workforce who do their bit before going back with their bit of cash.
we ruled the world because we had geniuses like Brunel
We had a rail Network that got things there ON TIME carrying multiple Cargo
and yes the scum bags have everything to do with it because this is ENGLAND today!!!!
Peteff has just added to my point about modern britain..
I own a Rover
a lot of people own owned rovers
its got nothing to do with whos owned one because they are most likely second hand anyway
Its more to do with the fact hard working people havent got a job
NO JOB no paying the bills
I've got 2 Rovers and owned 5 in total.
Didn't save Rover though
Mark
quote:
Originally posted by Jumpy Guy
"if britain still had victorian values we would still rule the world"
not true at all. We only ruled the world during victorias reign by systematic barbarity, ethnic cleansing, and generally being horrible to everyone we met.
I said it would happen when a foreign bloke bought the business...
I will also back up the fact that a lot of immigrant workers work damn hard for their money. We have a lot around at home working on farms picking veg
and stuff and they are all on miniumum wage which the agencies then take a chunk of. All the people who employ them all say they are very hard
workers, and never complain. Some of them have recently been complaining about eachother, which is amusing, saying they cant get work!
Britain is a consumerist society, we all want everything as cheap, fast and easy as possible. Who shops in tescos for their veg? - which has probably
been grown in Egypt! Why not shop at a local farm shop/green grocer whose produce is far nicer? Because we cant be bothered and would rather buy
everything in one place, no matter how crap it may be. This results in price battles between all businesses, which forces products to be sourced from
lower income countries, which in turn results in jobs being lost over here - this is evident in all industries be it food or auto. We demand the
highest standard of living for the lowest cost, which makes us a very rich country. However it wrecks the internal 'economy' of the place.
You buy the cheapest car, its most likely to be malaysian or something 'better' from france - the quality is shite, but its cheap so you
dont care, right?
British industry is very stuck in its ways, you try to talk to managers about better techniques and they dont listen, or half heartedly attempt to
implement the technique, while also trying to mix it with their old way of doing things. No one is willing to stand up and make a drastic change to
the way british inductry functions. The fact is, we have the knowledge (look who built up the Japanese industry after WW2 - UK and US engineers) the
thing is people dont listen.
We are stuck producing very specialist items, based on high technology and innovation. Companies that produce these itmes tend to be small and
specialised themselves and so employ a very small proportion of the population.
David
[Edited on 18/10/06 by flak monkey]
quote:
Originally posted by Jumpy Guy
eh? before the Daily Mail brigade get their knickers in a twist, TVR going away is nowt to do with immigration
its to do with inefficient british manufacturinig techniques, companies run on victorian values, lack of investment in new technology
but more importantly - not enough people buying the cars.
that simple.
how many people here own a tvr?
does that mean we will get cheaper TVR's? doubt it!!
By the way, the Griffith had Sierra bits.
[Edited on 18/10/06 by Hammerhead]
quote:
Originally posted by Jumpy Guy
"if britain still had victorian values we would still rule the world"
not true at all. We only ruled the world during victorias reign by systematic barbarity, ethnic cleansing, and generally being horrible to everyone we met.
not acceptable then, and even less so now.
I ask the question again- how many people on this site actually walked the walk with TVR?
how many people parted with hard earned cash?
We are all petrolheads, we should be pretty much the target audience for a new or used TVR...
Very few people bought them.
nowt to do with any layabout outside your house. If you wanted to protect British industry, then you should have bought a TVR, and you should have bought a Rover if you couldnt afford the TVR.....
Me? never owned a Rover, never owned a TVR. Just like the majority of folk who then moan when the companies go bust.
[img][/img]
quote:
Originally posted by Jumpy Guy
its to do with inefficient british manufacturinig techniques, companies run on victorian values, lack of investment in new technology
but more importantly - not enough people buying the cars.
that simple.
how many people here own a tvr?
quote:
Originally posted by spaximus
quote:
Originally posted by Jumpy Guy
Foregot to add I also have a new Jaguar X type on order as well whilst they are still built in Britain.
[Edited on 18/10/06 by spaximus]
Not in three years they're not! Oh how the sands of time change! Oh and the gearboxs' - GETRAG... English, British or UK? Gmbh...
I work for a Japanese company, drive a German owned Czech car, made in Hungary! Go figure....
& whilst we're on the subject of exploitation.. . entrepreners in China are subcontracting their work out to Africa 'cos it's even cheaper!!!!
(OH MY GOD!!) Calm down!!!
<Chill pill taken!
[Edited on 18-10-06 by Hellfire]
stevebubs - 18/10/06 at 04:20 PMquote:
Originally posted by ch1ll1
at least we still make london taxis !
Actually - they're also about to start making them under license in China.
Wonder how long it will be before they stop making them here....
macspeedy - 18/10/06 at 04:31 PMTHEY TOOK R JOBS
I have had it with the common market, for example the spanish, nice people and all that, they can 'fish out' our waters for nothing they are suposedly poor, they get huge funding from the eu! they come over here and take over our companies, i know this.. they build huge enigineering projects with european funding. Then they allow all these imigrants into our country, why we already have the fourth or fifth highest population density in the world!
They took our jobs !!!!!!!
StevieB - 18/10/06 at 05:14 PMBut getting back to the point - it's a great shame that TVR are moving away, but not suprise.
When I was at 6th Form, we got a trip round the factory (as it was just down the road) and visited every department.
What I saw was a bunch of entusiastuic people making fast cars in a very large, but poor state, hanger(s).
It had the appearance of something that could be achieved if the poeple of this forum found a big shed and knocked a few cars together.
It certainly took a bit of the stigma away from the cars, and didn't look to be as efficient as it could have been. Now that they have a new owner, more funding and a drive on quality, the plant was always going to move - and it was always going to move abroad because it's cheaper.
We can all moan about things moving oversees etc. etc all we want. The simple fact is, if it was my company, and I'd tried everything and still failed to get results, I'd have done the same thing. After all, it's not a hobby, it's a business, and that requires cold and calculated decisions.
omega 24 v6 - 18/10/06 at 05:22 PMquote:
They took our jobs !!!!!!!
I disagree. We cannot fill enough posts at times with local labour (we've tried and they are either not interested or less than f*cking useless). These people are willing to relocate, with a young familly sometimes, from an area 1000kms away. It's all about money they can earn in 1 week here what it takes 1 month to earn at home. While british people find it less lucrative to relocate (property prices etc etc).
Jumpy Guy - 18/10/06 at 07:49 PMwhere do i get my views on global manufacturing?
I work for a German company. I work 30% of the year in Dubai.
in my last job, i worked for Philips, one of the worlds largest multinationals. I moved two scottish production lines to Polish factories. Spent six months in Pila and Pabenitsa (sorry for the spelling ;-) )
I lived in China for extensive period (2 years) , Taiwan for a year, Malaysia for six months.
But you're correct, I probably have no idea about what happens in the world....
Immigration in itself doesnt affect the 'host' nation unless the lazy b*stards in the host nation let it happen.
Dubai has one of the most ferocious economies on the planet. Only 20% of residents in Dubai are UAE nationals. The rest are immigrant workers (UK, Poland, India)
In all the time I've been in Dubai, I have never had any hassle as an immigrant taking jobs...
Germany is the largest exporter in the world. It may not have the best labour market at the moment, but it punches way above its weight .The latest OECD report reckons china will catch up in 6 years or so....
But, as someone else said- my point is not solely about cheap labour rates. Its very obvious that is a large part of it. My original point is that the only way to compete with cheap foreign labour rates is to alter the british view on labour-
i.e. invest in automation, invest in multiskill training, get UK nationals actually working.
The picture above sums it up to me- ten UK 'professionals' looking down a hole and moaning about the immigrants, while the immigrant does the actual work.
[Edited on 18/10/06 by Jumpy Guy]
[Edited on 18/10/06 by Jumpy Guy]
[Edited on 18/10/06 by Jumpy Guy]
Hellfire - 18/10/06 at 08:26 PMJumpy - I conceed to your knowledge of foreign companies. However, you decline from offering up the role you played in those companies. I work for one of the largest automotive suppliers in the world - in manufacturing, so I see first hand what is happening to our economy as a result, not that I know anything at all, but...
The reason why UK business does not invest in new machinery is purely because (mostly foreign) financial intitutions cannot and will not resource a failing UK economy and risk the losses resulting from a failing company.
Toyota - for instance doesn't even use UK workforce for the brand new extension and facility they are currently building. They employ a Japanese company to do that.... why? You tell me...
For far too long the UK manufacturing has sat on its hands and rested on the fact that we were once the most successful and innovative manufacturing base in the world. Trouble is, we sat on our hands for far too long whilst our sompetitors caught up and susequently overtook us at what we do best. Our Government does little to give us a competitive edge as almost all of Europe and Asia do in the way of subsidies etc.
It's sad about TVR, but inevitable. As a private company trying to make a large profit for the greedy (?) owners... I rest my case. (It's heavy now!)
Steve
Jumpy Guy - 18/10/06 at 09:50 PMHellfire,
we're kinda saying the same thing here!!
you're right; we have 'sat on our hands'
that was my original point; its our fault, not immigrant workers....
as for what i do -Design Engineer- i design industrial automation- robot cells, CNC machines, data log and telemetry....
if you have any crank grinding machines sold by Landis Lunde, then we designed em...
[Edited on 18/10/06 by Jumpy Guy]
smart51 - 19/10/06 at 07:45 AMWe in Britain have sold off all our companies. In the modern age, "thats what we do". The American, Japanese, Chinese etc owners of once british companies use their british plants almost as contractors - to be disposed of when no longer needed. We can hardly complain what happens in foreign owned factories - we sold them and took the cash years ago. They're not our factories to whinge about, except that we work in them.
I too work for a large multinational company. We have plants in numerous countries. It is the eastern europeans who are getting all the new work. When I was in Detroit last, they were really put out as a factory a week is closing there.
We're all doomed unless we can thing of a solution. 10 years from now, China and other eastern countries will take over the manufacturing world and the economic world will soon follow. We'll find that the world changes quite a bit then.
spaximus - 19/10/06 at 08:16 AMThe thing is we can still do all the things we used to do, however the costs kill british business. Speaking in genral now , we have a workforce who want much more for much less work than ever before, we have unions who cannot see past the end of their nose so push for unacheivable aims. An example of that is the Peugoet factory, the company says it is closing the union calls for a strike. So the company could have then sacked them all without redundancy, instead of being proactive with the company like the nissan plant. Dyson is a great example, he built a factory in Malmesbury which is excellant, he wanted to hugly extend it, the council refused permission so given a choice of building a new factory from scratch here or in the far east the far east won. Now to his credit he still kept the old one going as well, but it is an example of a council run by halfwits not working with the towns biggest employer to secure extra jobs. Bristol City is trying to buy the M32 to turn into a bus lane and single road complete with congestion charging, several finacial institutions have already moved over the Bridge to wales where they have no such intentions. These are the type of crackpot ideas that have led to British business going abroad in their droves. Lucas, evryone knows was as British as John Bull now nothing Lucas is made here at all. And the list goes on. When we only have service industries then we will have to rely on the city type to generate money buying and selling forgien companies to keep all the chavs in benefit.
Syd Bridge - 19/10/06 at 08:40 AMDidn't the Thatcher government decree that the UK would become a 'service industry' nation?
Then set about systematically to rip the heart out of, and dismantle all of the industries associated with manufacturing.
First coal mining, then steel, shipbuilding, heavy industry, light industry.........
But for the little man with a lathe and a few tools in his garage or shed, there would be nothing made in this country of any significance.
But who was the 'expert' who advised Thatchers mob to do this? Find him and his committee and string 'em up by the proverbials, if you find they have any.
Same thing happened in Aus. Now they have woken up to the stupidity, and are trying to reverse the situation. That's why UK tradesmen with manufacturing trades are being actively recruited into Aus.
And the 'multiculturalism' has been tossed out as well.
Time for the 'Mother Country' to take some lessons from the offspring!
Cheers,
Syd
Ian Pearson - 19/10/06 at 09:08 AMI couldn’t agree more Syd. Thatcherism resulted in all of our heavy industry being closed down. Subsidies that were available from the EU to support these industries. I have always felt that it is better to have a subsidised workforce than an unemployed one. I believe (a bit shaky here!) that we now import subsidised German coal??
Perhaps keeping all those industries would’ve given them time to modernise, who knows?
NS Dev - 19/10/06 at 09:18 AMquote:
Originally posted by Jumpy Guy
eh? before the Daily Mail brigade get their knickers in a twist, TVR going away is nowt to do with immigration
its to do with inefficient british manufacturinig techniques, companies run on victorian values, lack of investment in new technology
but more importantly - not enough people buying the cars.
that simple.
how many people here own a tvr?
Eh up Jumpy! Have to say, normally we seem to agree on stuff, but here I disagree slightly.
Having also worked in fairly "core" industries (steel and automotive) for a good while now, I don't see that the companies I worked for could be much more efficient.
Sure there were things that could be improved, don't I know it as I am a CI Engineer!!!!
However, the phrase "you can't polish a turd" just always came to mind.
When I was working on scrap reduction at Timken Alloy Steel Europe Ltd (formerly Desford Tubes, part of TI) we calculated that even if we had 100% transformation of steel bar to tube, with no scrap anywhere in the plant, we still could not get our marginal COSTS below what eastern european plants were SELLING AT!!!!!!!
Like banging your head against a brick wall.
Now forget TVR, Timken has just pulled out, closing the only remaining seamless tube piercing mill left in the UK, now seamless tube is 100% imported at some stage in its processing (some is drawn ect in the UK but none is now pierced here)
400 jobs are going in Desford (nr leicester) in the next 6 months.
Timken closed its bearing plant in Duston, Northampton, 5 years ago, a plant which employed 1500....................
I am fed up with British Manufacturing, but I love engineering, its a shite situation. There are a LOT of very efficient plants in the UK, the media focus on a few very inneficient ones, Rover being a notable one.
Look at Toyota and Nissan UK.
Forget "inefficient british manufacturing" these two plants have repeatedly been crowned the two most efficient car plants in the WORLD!!!! (even beating their parent plants in Japan)
jono_misfit - 19/10/06 at 09:51 AMUnfortunately the UK is entirely money driven in all aspects of life.
I worked for a number of years in construction where the moto seems to be "we dont care if its built like crap as long as its cheap". And i think this applies to pretty much everything.
Where i can i by british, and if you look hard you find some excelent products etc, but its always at a premium.
The world revolves around money and if relocating means increased ££ then sooner or later it'll happen.
Its sad to see TVR go, i think they're amazing cars, however the 3 people ive know that have had one (and thats the operative word) says its hard to justify keeping them when their so expensive and so prone to failure. Where you can get something german that rarely breaks for a similar price...
I think the company needed a complete re-vamp. Has the order rate decreased since the ownership changed? Who is / was the biggest market for TVR?
Alez - 20/10/06 at 01:03 PMquote:
They'd have sold more cars if you couldn't go and get a Porsche/Merc/BMW for the same money, silimar performance, vastly more civilised (Booooooooooo! - I like the rawness of TVR's) and far better built.
TVRs have tube chassis, which is why Porsche/Merc/BMW cars are about a 50% heavier. We are talking about sports cars (even if they have leather trim, a stereo and things) and that is important, too. I don't think that the only "plus" of a TVR, compared to those, is its looks. Actually, I'd love to have a TVR and the others are not particularly appealing to me, to be honest.
Cheers,
Alex