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Pinto out - Duratec in
simonrh - 4/1/15 at 09:27 PM

I have been reading a few of the threads about doing this conversion and how much it costs.

I am trying to ascertain if a relatively basic, reliable install could be done as follows:
Complete ST150 Engine (low miles inc alternator and single mass flywheel). £500 (flog un-needed bits and recoup some of costs).
Service kit for above. £50-£100.
Bellhousing – cable clutch. £200 RWD motorsport.
Duratec DCOE manifold. £130 Turbosport
Duratec Exhaust flange. £26 DanST.
Modify pinto exhaust manifold and refinish. £200 (guess)
Plumbing. Silicone hoses and fittings. £150 (guess)
Fabricate engine mounts. £100 (guess).
Miscellaneous. £100.
Dyno set-up. £215 (lynx AE).

My pinto has a set of twin 40s and Nodiz already and I was intending to swap these over and reset them to suit. The twin 40s aren't perfect but they would provide a basic upgrade path for the future.

Is there anything key missing from the above?

RWD motorsport say that the stock ST150 flywheel can be used but the pivot pin for the clutch needs shimming. What is this and what is involved?

Tots up to £1600-1700 on top of which I guess I would get a few quid back for a pinto with 205 block, injection head and fast cam

[Edited on 4/1/15 by simonrh]

big-vee-twin - 4/1/15 at 09:51 PM

Low height sump.

ali f27 - 4/1/15 at 10:24 PM

Can re space pinto pipe onto manifold plate if you can weld very little expensce would sell 40s and buy bike carbs bigger chokes i love webbers but will cost you quite a bit to re choke tubes and jet etc and you will probs need short sump
mine goes like f*** now so keep going you will love it

davidimurray - 4/1/15 at 11:03 PM

If you haven't seen my thread already have a look for some ideas. As a thought

Sump
New thermostat
Some form of water rail at the back of the head
possible relocation of coil pack and new ign leads
starter motor
belt tensioner - will depend on belt and getting rid of power steering pump.
Alternator - will it run without the ECU?
Clutch?
RS2000 clutch arm and release bearing.
Oil filter adaptor/relocation
Fuel rail or fuel Injector hole plugs

Just a few that jump to mind.

snapper - 5/1/15 at 04:59 AM

Clutch pivot pin is the peg inside the Bellhousing that the clutch arm pushes on when the clutch cable pulls the other end
There are longer pins available from GBS, there are thicker release bearings or you could go concentric hydraulic

Nickp - 5/1/15 at 06:42 AM

I can't see twin 40's been big enough for a 2.0 Duratec either.

Paul Turner - 5/1/15 at 09:29 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Nickp
I can't see twin 40's been big enough for a 2.0 Duratec either.


With 36mm chokes 40's will be fine on a standard Duratec. Start tuning it and you will need bigger carbs to get the best out of it.

If the 40's you have are good and reliable they worth trying to start with.

Fcck2000 - 5/1/15 at 02:24 PM

quote:
Originally posted by simonrh
I have been reading a few of the threads about doing this conversion and how much it costs.

I am trying to ascertain if a relatively basic, reliable install could be done as follows:
Complete ST150 Engine (low miles inc alternator and single mass flywheel). £500 (flog un-needed bits and recoup some of costs).
Service kit for above. £50-£100.
Bellhousing – cable clutch. £200 RWD motorsport.
Duratec DCOE manifold. £130 Turbosport
Duratec Exhaust flange. £26 DanST.
Modify pinto exhaust manifold and refinish. £200 (guess)
Plumbing. Silicone hoses and fittings. £150 (guess)
Fabricate engine mounts. £100 (guess).
Miscellaneous. £100.
Dyno set-up. £215 (lynx AE).

My pinto has a set of twin 40s and Nodiz already and I was intending to swap these over and reset them to suit. The twin 40s aren't perfect but they would provide a basic upgrade path for the future.

Is there anything key missing from the above?

RWD motorsport say that the stock ST150 flywheel can be used but the pivot pin for the clutch needs shimming. What is this and what is involved?

Tots up to £1600-1700 on top of which I guess I would get a few quid back for a pinto with 205 block, injection head and fast cam

[Edited on 4/1/15 by simonrh]



Why not look at the Mazda version of the Duratec engine. Example on ebay, nothing to do with me.
MAZDA 6 2.0 PETROL ENGINE, CODE LF RUNS A1 39K MILES 2005-2010â™ â—˜
This is what we have in our Tiger, with a set of throttle bodies you can be looking at 195bhp which is around 20bhp more than a ST150 engine on throttle bodies. We run a standard internals engine with the mildest cam upgrade purchased from Omex with throttle bodies giving us 220bhp
http://omextechnology.co.uk/Omex%20Duratec%20VVC%20MZR%20Engine%20v1_0.pdf
I believe the differences are better pistons, better crank and alloy block along with other Mazda improvements.

You'll need an ECU that can control the VCT, not sure if the one you have can do that? Omex can and we have used the Specialist Components ECU which also has mappable VCT.

Paul

Paul Turner - 5/1/15 at 02:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Fcck2000

I believe the differences are ..... alloy block.



The Ford Duratec engines also have Alloy blocks. They are the same engine.

simonrh - 5/1/15 at 02:37 PM

Thanks for all the input, the basic conclusion is that it isn't a cheap swap, the engine prices are getting very affordable by there is still a lot more to spend over and above that. Obviously everyone's definition of budget varies but I wated to sanity check that setting aside a couple of grand was about ball park.

Fcck2000 - 5/1/15 at 02:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paul Turner
quote:
Originally posted by Fcck2000

I believe the differences are ..... alloy block.



The Ford Duratec engines also have Alloy blocks. They are the same engine.


I don't believe they are the same internally as the Mazda version has a different CR. You are right in that the ST150 also has an alloy block.

simonrh - 5/1/15 at 03:08 PM

I thought they were all the same but for a few minor differences to suit the given installation?

All of them are alloy block and head?

Fcck2000 - 5/1/15 at 03:13 PM

quote:
Originally posted by simonrh
I thought they were all the same but for a few minor differences to suit the given installation?

All of them are alloy block and head?


http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=14753

This might be of interest if you are thinking about going MZR

davidimurray - 5/1/15 at 03:23 PM

Can't mention the difference between the Duaretc and MZR, but they have the same build manuals from Ford/mazda.

ST150/Post 08 Focus Duratecs have a slightly better flowing head - good for about +10bhp. Otherwise the duratecs are the same.

Paul Turner - 5/1/15 at 03:54 PM

quote:
Originally posted by simonrh
Thanks for all the input, the basic conclusion is that it isn't a cheap swap, the engine prices are getting very affordable by there is still a lot more to spend over and above that. Obviously everyone's definition of budget varies but I wated to sanity check that setting aside a couple of grand was about ball park.


I swapped from a X-Flow to a Zetec 13 years ago and that was not a cheap swap. But at least I did not need a special bellhousing to use my existing type 9 box.

It all adds up. I paid approx £150 for the engine, £250 for a sump, £400 for an exhaust, £100 for mounts, £100 for hoses, £100 for an inlet, £350 for an ECU, £300 for a steel flywheel and clutch, that adds up to £1750 but with odds and sods plus a RR session to set up the carbs I spent about £2000.

But it was well worth it. It started 1st touch of the key and idled better than a tuned x-flow ever did with no setting up. No regrets here.

But I know at least 2 people who have bought Zetecs thinking its a cheap x-flow out/Zetec in and have given up once they found out what else they needed.

flak monkey - 5/1/15 at 04:21 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Fcck2000
quote:
Originally posted by simonrh
I thought they were all the same but for a few minor differences to suit the given installation?

All of them are alloy block and head?


http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=14753

This might be of interest if you are thinking about going MZR


Careful with this - it relates to the USA engines which are a different specification, including a lower compression ratio to the UK variants.

The UK 2.0 duratec fitted to Fords and Mazdas are identical in every respect internally. They are both 10.8:1 compression and use the same rods, cams, pistons, block etc. The sumps are different for FWD/RWD variant. The difference in power is as a result of minor intake manifold changes and ECU mapping.

ali f27 - 5/1/15 at 05:12 PM

They are the same i used a mondeo engine as it was cheaper than an st we also have a tuned 2.3 from an usa focus in the race car paul gardnier says he cannot get any more power with the high port head so i dont see the point in spending more money on the later head . Get the mondeo engine hone the bores put new rings on it maby arp bolts remember your carbs are going to be your power limiter i went for bodies and injection + dta that is were your £ go you should be able to buy and refresh for £400 get rmd bellhousing and fly wheel and you can use pinto clutch mine takes the power.

Kerrsco22 - 9/1/18 at 11:28 AM

Did you ever do the conversion

tomduffield13 - 9/1/18 at 12:44 PM

I can't comment on whether the OP completed the switch, but many have, including me, if you have any specific questions?

Kerrsco22 - 9/1/18 at 02:01 PM

Just that am in The process of doing it and to see what the results were I have a full DAN-st inlet with r1 carbs sitting which is what I was gonna use with my megajolt ignition then someone bought the megajolt so was gonna run it with it’s own injectors with the carbs but have now bought throttle body’s so that’s the way am going now full ecu and body’s also now have carbs snd inlet for sale

[Edited on 9/1/18 by Kerrsco22]

tomduffield13 - 10/1/18 at 10:40 AM

The result for me was a much lighter wallet and a much faster car. Win some, lose some!

I ended up with the ST150, CBR ITBs and Megasquirt, but it's all the little bits that add up, as per the list at the top of this thread.

Good Luck and let us know how you get on!

[Edited on 10/1/18 by tomduffield13]

Kerrsco22 - 10/1/18 at 12:34 PM

Yeah all the 30-50£ all ad up lol I am gonna use an ems em70 ecu and a set of 45dcoe throttle body’s running the standard injectors I also have my donor engine a low Miles duratec in a mondeo ghia owened by a pensioner with full service here story at ford lol so got bellhousing and clutch fork to get along with dcoe inlet manafold then bolt together and get all the fettling done before rolling road and set up

neilp1 - 11/1/18 at 08:01 PM

I was advised by omex not to use the standard duratec injectors. I used ST170 injectors and have had no problems.

Kerrsco22 - 11/1/18 at 09:13 PM

Cheers bud was looking at others I know one guy that’s using astra vxr ones as well

Hornet - 11/1/18 at 09:56 PM

VXR Turbo.. that'll be me

Kerrsco22 - 11/1/18 at 10:05 PM

Could be lol