Board logo

Alfa Romeo twin cam injection install.
zetec - 30/10/15 at 08:46 AM

My son has just got his first car, he has a year to go before he is 17, and as it will be used daily we were looking to make it a little more user friendly.
It's a Alfa Romeo Giulia Ti 1300 made in 1970. Normally fitted with twin Weber dcoe, all very nice but not to easy to live with in modern traffic compared to injection.

When I built my zetec with Jenvey bodies there was almost a limitless supply of parts for either twin body or bike body conversions. I'm struggling to find anything on converting the older Alfa twin cam engine...anyone done a conversion? The main thing to find is an intake manifold which places the injectors in the correct position with relation to the inlet valves.

mark chandler - 30/10/15 at 08:52 AM

No need to place the injectors pointing at the back of the valves, just get some bike TB's and use the injectors fitted to them, albeit before the inlet manifold.

Close to the valves is for emissions, further back gives slightly more power.

Ivan - 30/10/15 at 08:55 AM

I would use bike tb's on the weber manifold - in reality you want the injectors close to the throttle plates to ensure good fuel evaporation in the turbulence from the throttle plates at low throttle settings so don't worry about putting the injectors too close to the valves.

A very simple adapter would get them fitted.

Paul Turner - 30/10/15 at 08:58 AM

Injecting the Alfa engine will be no more difficult than injecting any other engine.

I one respect it will be easy, Jenvey TB's will bolt strait on where the Webers currently bolt. They make short ones for use where under-bonnet space is limited. The injectors fit into the TB's so nothing to worry about.

You will then need new fuel pipes (braided steel from Think Automotive unless you want a fireball), a HP pump, LP pump, regulator, swirl pot, throttle linkage, coil pack and crank sensor/chopper. Finally you will need an ECU to provide spark and injector signal. Many ways from the DIY Megajolt to professional kit like MBE. One things for sure, you will need a full mapping session, doubt any off the shelf maps close enough exist for a 1970 Alfa.

[Edited on 30/10/15 by Paul Turner]

Ugg10 - 30/10/15 at 09:00 AM

Easy fix is to convert it to bike carbs, have a chat to danst for a manifold, not sure what carbs but don't go too big. Much smoother and consistent delivery to webers and probably be more economical. £3-400 and you could be up and running, may need a new fuel regulator to drop the pressure low enough for the bike carbs. If you want to add to that, delete the distributor and go nodiz ecu and coil pack for another £300.

There is also a company out there that does an injection system from converted dcoes, iirc expensive but keeps the looks. Sorry can't find a link to then at the moment.

edit - found the link - http://www.totalkitcar.com/2015/06/25/jewel-from-northampton/

Changing to injection will be a fairly big job, new manifold, bike or jenvey bodies, filter, fuel pump, return line to tank, and an ecu, I am guessing best part of £1000 plus time to fit and then a mapping session on top of that.

[Edited on 30/10/15 by Ugg10]

[Edited on 30/10/15 by Ugg10]

Ben_Copeland - 30/10/15 at 09:55 AM

Have you also thought about the insurance cost implications of 'modifying' the engine. I would imagine a new driver driving an Alfa the insurance wouldn't be cheap To start with but then telling them you've modified the engine with throttle bodies etc may cause the price to rocket

computid - 30/10/15 at 10:25 AM

Why bother? The car's survived for 45~ years on a carbs. Yes it may be a little interesting to start in the mornings but that's the fun of an old Alfa!

If you wanted a modern, reliable car then you could have bought an Aygo or a Fiesta. Don't try to make it something it's not and just enjoy it for what it is!

IMO anyway...

SJ - 30/10/15 at 10:50 AM

As long as the Webbers are in good shape they should be very reliable. The only reason to change is if they are knackered.

Great 1st car by the way! What's the insurance like for a 17yr old? My lad isn't that far off and I'd love to get him a classic.


Stu

Fatgadget - 30/10/15 at 10:57 AM

quote:
Originally posted by zetec
My son has just got his first car, he has a year to go before he is 17, and as it will be used daily we were looking to make it a little more user friendly.
It's a Alfa Romeo Giulia Ti 1300 made in 1970. Normally fitted with twin Weber dcoe, all very nice but not to easy to live with in modern traffic compared to injection.

When I built my zetec with Jenvey bodies there was almost a limitless supply of parts for either twin body or bike body conversions. I'm struggling to find anything on converting the older Alfa twin cam engine...anyone done a conversion? The main thing to find is an intake manifold which places the injectors in the correct position with relation to the inlet valves.

Are you sure you are not trying to re - live your youth through your to be 17 year old son?

How the hell can a 17 year old afford insurance for anything called Alfa Romeo and has a twin cam engine with twin choke webbers on it?...I remember when I was 18 and so wanted this Lotus Cortina...but insurance man said no!

SJ - 30/10/15 at 11:08 AM

I was 18 when I got my first Alfa . I thought classic policies normally were only for 21 or 25+ though.

zetec - 30/10/15 at 12:24 PM

Adrian flux £2200, classic policy £1200... All depending on price not changing next year! They don't get driven by teenagers and semi valuable car so lower risk that Fiesta style stuff.

Also they only go up in price and zero road tax...spares plentiful and cheap...what is not to like???

http://www.petrolicious.com/he-built-this-alfa-romeo-berlina-it-built-his-career

cliftyhanger - 30/10/15 at 01:45 PM

Do watch out for the classic policies. A few years ago things really changed, and many now require the insured to have a main vehicle so the classic is just a weekend car. And yes, you can get away with it until it goes belly up and then they check. Carefully.

BTW my kids share our classic mini, but we couldn't get them insured on it under a classic policy for under 3K so it is on a mainstream policy, now £600.

sebastiaan - 30/10/15 at 02:29 PM

quote:
Originally posted by zetecanyone done a conversion?


I have... R6 throttle bodies on the original manifold using carb rubbers from a snowmobile (part# Mikuni VM40-200K, cheapest place to get them was in Finland: http://www.emc24.fi/product_info.php?cPath=421_422_142&products_id=2701). Bolts right up, just re-spacing of the bodies and fuel rail is a bit of a hassle. O, and I used 40mm inlet stacks from FastDan on here. Works pretty well and starts first time, every time!

Some more info (in dutch... use google translate) in this thread from page 2 onwards:

http://www.alfaspeed.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=119&start=15

MikeRJ - 30/10/15 at 02:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Fatgadget
How the hell can a 17 year old afford insurance for anything called Alfa Romeo and has a twin cam engine with twin choke webbers on it?...I remember when I was 18 and so wanted this Lotus Cortina...but insurance man said no!


Because it's a classic car that's probably slower than a Fiesta Ecoboost?

rf900rush - 30/10/15 at 03:13 PM

My first car was a Alfasud, and at that age I should of not been let any where near one, and that was a budget car at £300.
Even if he is an good young driver there are a lot of muppets to dodge.

Would it not be better to save such a car for later. May be swap it for my crappy golf

Nickp - 30/10/15 at 05:23 PM

Personally, I'd stick with the webers if they're in good nick but add a decent ignition system. I added a Canems ignition ECU and coilpack to the Twin Cam in my Lancia Montecarlo and it was a real benefit to starting, reliability and general driveability. That big fat spark in the right place can really mask the deficiencies / limitations of the old webers. You'll improve the running and retain the character of the carbs