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Crossflow 1300cc vs 1100cc ?
goodguydrew - 31/1/07 at 12:18 AM

How can you tell a 1300cc Crossflow from an 1100cc? I have the engine casting marks 711M-6015-AA and 8F19 and T17.
Is there any other markings I should look for?
Thanks

SixedUp - 31/1/07 at 12:51 AM

According to Burton Power 1.3 is 711M 6015 AA, 1.6 is 711M 6015 BA. By a process of elimination I would imagine anything else to be an 1100 :-)
Cheers
Richard

Fatgadget - 31/1/07 at 01:49 AM

I.6s have a taller block than 1300s and 1100s. On the smaller lumps,the water pump is almost flush with the deck of the block...The difference between the 1000 and the 1300 is the bore. The stroke is the same.

DavidM - 31/1/07 at 02:02 AM

Both the 1100 and 1300 are 711M 6015 AA. One way to tell the difference between them is to measure the stroke.
1100 = 53.29mm
1300 = 62.99mm

If you have the donor Mk2 Escort VIN plate
G2 indicates 1100cc HC
J2 indicates 1300cc HC
J3 is 1300cc with twin choke

Mk1 Escort
B is 1100cc HC
S is 1300cc HC
R is 1300cc GT

There are other differences if you take the head off.

Valve sizes:
1100cc inlet 35.94 to 36.19mm dia
1300cc inlet 38.02 to 38.28mm dia

Exhaust valves are the same.

I'm not sure what the 8F19 and T17 denote.

David

Fatgadget - 31/1/07 at 02:31 AM

quote:
Originally posted by DavidM
Both the 1100 and 1300 are 711M 6015 AA. One way to tell the difference between them is to measure the stroke.
1100 = 53.29mm
1300 = 62.99mm

If you have the donor Mk2 Escort VIN plate
G2 indicates 1100cc HC
J2 indicates 1300cc HC
J3 is 1300cc with twin choke

Mk1 Escort
B is 1100cc HC
S is 1300cc HC
R is 1300cc GT

There are other differences if you take the head off.

Valve sizes:
1100cc inlet 35.94 to 36.19mm dia
1300cc inlet 38.02 to 38.28mm dia

Exhaust valves are the same.

I'm not sure what the 8F19 and T17 denote.

David


Yes you are correct. The Bore is the same on 1100s, 1300s and 1600s..It's the stroke thats different,.....I think I will look for a dark corner so I can hide in embarrassment now..

ned - 31/1/07 at 07:20 AM

Forgive me if I am totally wrong (no nout about xflows) but is the 711 block meant to be better or something to do with the lotus engines? Sure I heard something like this once.

Ned.

02GF74 - 31/1/07 at 08:41 AM

quote:
Originally posted by ned
Forgive me if I am totally wrong (no nout about xflows) but is the 711 block meant to be better or something to do with the lotus engines?
Ned.


yes and no. the xflow went through several incarnations, the 711 M block is one of the last ones, introduced in '70-71 with a meatier casting and stroing main caps. Also the crank and rods will withstand high rpm. There is only one block that is better, the number I foget but that was only avaialble in South Africa.

A veriety, 8 in fact, of blocks are suitable for use with the lotus crank.

Syd Bridge - 31/1/07 at 08:53 AM

The last of the '711' series blocks was the 'AX' series. Yes, cast in South Africa, but aimed at keeping the Formula Ford cars fed with parts. It was also used in some SA delivered cars.

The metal had a few additions, notably chromium, and a little manganese(? I think, not sure, it's been a lot of years!) to toughen them up and preserve bore hardness and strength.

The AX is acknowledged as the motorsport block, and is not legal to run in the 750mc series, so must have some advantages.

Cheers,
Syd.

MikeR - 31/1/07 at 09:31 AM

I believe the AX was originally designed to be used as a diesel block - hence the modifications. That fell through but ford maintained production in SA for other engines. People soon found out about this and it became the basis of motorsport engines - generally accepted that it will bore up to around 1800cc.
(this is all internet fact i've picked up, could be complete tosh)

Caterham imported these blocks for there cars for a long time. Guess who's got one sat on an engine stand above his spare engine (which means the poor thing will never get used - so any silly offers of lots of beer tokens and its yours )

Memphis Twin - 31/1/07 at 10:37 AM

quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
I believe the AX was originally designed to be used as a diesel block - hence the modifications. That fell through but ford maintained production in SA for other engines. People soon found out about this and it became the basis of motorsport engines - generally accepted that it will bore up to around 1800cc.
(this is all internet fact i've picked up, could be complete tosh)

Caterham imported these blocks for there cars for a long time. Guess who's got one sat on an engine stand above his spare engine (which means the poor thing will never get used - so any silly offers of lots of beer tokens and its yours )


Dave Brooks (engine builder of repute) has measured the bore walls of many AX blocks and found them to be exactly the same as the 711m block

So I'm afraid it's a bit of a myth that the AX block is better....

ned - 31/1/07 at 12:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Syd Bridge
The AX is acknowledged as the motorsport block, and is not legal to run in the 750mc series, so must have some advantages.

Cheers,
Syd.

Maybe to keep costs down?

Marcus - 31/1/07 at 01:13 PM

quote:

Dave Brooks (engine builder of repute) has measured the bore walls of many AX blocks and found them to be exactly the same as the 711m block


I don't think it's the size that's different, but the material it's made of.
Being harder and so stiffer, you can bore out to 1850cc without compromising strength too much. You can bore a 711M out to that, but it won't last long.

Syd Bridge - 2/2/07 at 10:24 AM

quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
I believe the AX was originally designed to be used as a diesel block - hence the modifications. That fell through but ford maintained production in SA for other engines. People soon found out about this and it became the basis of motorsport engines - generally accepted that it will bore up to around 1800cc.
(this is all internet fact i've picked up, could be complete tosh)

Caterham imported these blocks for there cars for a long time. Guess who's got one sat on an engine stand above his spare engine (which means the poor thing will never get used - so any silly offers of lots of beer tokens and its yours )


On of you Mikes can always be relied on to contradict me, can't remember which one though.

I think you'll find that Ford were making diesels out of 1600 crossflows a long time before the AX block was concieved, and long after as well. Still do for industrial use.

A popular misconception is that diesels stress the block more than petrol. Not so when high performance is taken into account. A high revving race engine will put more stress into a block than a diesel at full song. the diesel is a 'softer' burn, while the petrol is more of a 'bang', just short of detonation.(Only half the revs, at most.) The crossflow diesels ran a relatively low CR as well, high teens, where modern diesels are in the low 20's.

The blocks were only available through the Power Products and motorsport dealers, and I think they still are. (Not sure??)

TriMoCo in Bedfordshire sold them here, some 20 years ago, and I believe that Sky Ford are doing the crossflow bits here again.

Cheers,
Syd.

MikeR - 2/2/07 at 05:56 PM

I think i'm the one who occasionally contradicts you out of (my) ignorance. Its the other one you seem to argue with ......

honest


(anyway, i was half right, they made a diesel out of it....... i did say it was gleened from the internet and therefore bound to be (almost) right)