l0rd
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| posted on 24/1/09 at 03:01 PM |
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Lowering tin top question
I am looking on lowering my tintop. It's a renault clio 1994.
I have the struts and the springs. I am worried that if i lower it, i will have problems with bump steer effect.
I was wondering, that it might be possible to remove the track rod end which attaches to the hub from the lower side and swap it to attach to the hub
from the upper side. This way, the angle of the steering arm won't change a lot hence not F******g up the handling.
Is there a rule or something that says that the track rod end needs to be attached to the hub from the lower side? Am i being silly for thinking about
it?
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Danozeman
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| posted on 24/1/09 at 03:06 PM |
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If you change the track rod end to the top youl have to change the taper of the upright to take the TRE the other way. On Cast uprights its not
really doable.
Youl only get bad bump steer if your going ridiculously low. Over 60mm kinda thing. Even then i reckon 60 would be fine but would bottom out on
standard shocks.
I have fitted 40mm springs to a clio in the past for a mate and it handled well. No bump steer.
Id fit them and see. How low u going?
[Edited on 24/1/09 by Danozeman]
Dan
Built the purple peril!! Let the modifications begin!!
http://www.eastangliankitcars.co.uk
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Jasper
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| posted on 24/1/09 at 03:13 PM |
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Apart from all the great knowledgable people on here, I would have thought there would be specialist clio forums that would answer this definitively
for you....
If you're not living life on the edge you're taking up too much room.
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l0rd
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| posted on 24/1/09 at 03:25 PM |
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I am on the renault forum as well. Most of the time though, ppl start nagging when you want to mod your car.
In this forum, as kit cars are already modified cars, ppl don't complain hence it is a much nicer forum to talk too.
I am going 40mm down by the way.
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zilspeed
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| posted on 24/1/09 at 03:46 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by l0rd
I am on the renault forum as well. Most of the time though, ppl start nagging when you want to mod your car.
In this forum, as kit cars are already modified cars, ppl don't complain hence it is a much nicer forum to talk too.
I am going 40mm down by the way.
#
That's a fair drop.
Remember though, that not only are you changing the position of the track rods at static ride height and the resultant range of effective travel, you
are also doing the same to your bottom wishbone / track control arm - whatever it has.
By doing this, you are altering how camber change is going to occur as it will now be quite different to how it was from the factory.
On any given corner, the offside front wheel is the one that gets you into the corner as it has the most work to do in getting the turn in
initiated.
Your car, being dropped 40mm, will very probably be in a state that as this offisde front wheel becomes loaded and leans into the corner, the wheel
will go into a state of positive camber - rolling off the tread and onto the sidewall.
The only real way to avoid this is to alter the inner pickup points and lift them by the amount that you are lwoering the car- or to prevent roll
happening by having mega stiff springs thereby prevent this unwanted camber change from occuring. Only the first solution is the correct one - the
second is a bodge and will end up in a car that is horrible and unresponsive to drive.
Just to add - all of those radically lowered touring car have the inner mounting points moved to the optimum points that they are allowed within the
rules.
This isn't a moaning reply, this is just pointing out some of the ptifalls you may encounter, so maybe that 40mm drop is a tad ambitious.
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l0rd
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| posted on 24/1/09 at 04:55 PM |
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That's what i mean about much nicer forum to talk to.
You get valuable feedback and suggestions.
Reason for making this post was to share my problem and idea, and get feedback and ideas from other members.
I have heard of these downfalls and that's the reason i am still considering it and haven't done it so far.
I am driving my car about 30K a year, I do get tired due to the mileage and i wouldn't like my car to get me more tired from driving it.
Ideally, i would like to have it dropped by 20-30mm maximum. 40mm i too believe is too much. Plus I will have to go back to my original alloys as the
wider ones will be touching the arches a lot more.
[Edited on 24/1/09 by l0rd]
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l0rd
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| posted on 24/1/09 at 04:58 PM |
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Might be a little more of information
Struts will be AVO 40mm lower
springs are APEX 40mm lower
Torsion rear bar to be adjusted as well. Not sure as yet of shocks for it. No springs required.
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mark chandler
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| posted on 24/1/09 at 05:27 PM |
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Sounds like you will end up being 80mm lower ?
The springs will provide a lower ride height based upn the struts platform hieght, as it standard.
The struts will have the platform hieght lowered by 40mm compared to standard, so a double whammy!
For 30k miles you will probally also end up with a harse ride.
I suggest you drop the springs on the standard stuff and see how it feels before buying the struts.
Regards Mark
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l0rd
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| posted on 24/1/09 at 06:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
Sounds like you will end up being 80mm lower ?
The springs will provide a lower ride height based upn the struts platform hieght, as it standard.
The struts will have the platform hieght lowered by 40mm compared to standard, so a double whammy!
For 30k miles you will probally also end up with a harse ride.
I suggest you drop the springs on the standard stuff and see how it feels before buying the struts.
Regards Mark
I allready have the parts. They were cheap enough to buy both struts and springs. £60 quid in total. Both new.
You have me worried.
aren't you supposed to get shocks and springs that match the ride height? Meaning, you can't fit lowering springs with standard shocks,
you need to have shocks that will match the springs.
My bad?
[Edited on 24/1/09 by l0rd]
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dead sierra
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| posted on 24/1/09 at 06:55 PM |
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I lowered my fiesta by 40mm (G-Max springs and shocks). Its a zetec-s which ford had already lowered by 20mm so it ended up being 60mm over a standard
fiesta.
The car handles fantastically on the road and made complete sense on the track.
The ride is very hard and on a long trip can feel like you've just gone 10 rounds with Tyson. ts cool if your driving but not if your a
passenger. You have to constantly look out for pot holes and approach speed bumps with great care.
I didn't make any other changes to the suspension geometery and a problem you will have is quite a lot of negative camber as I doubt
you'll be able to compensate for that on the standard uprights so as a result you'll get a lot of tyre wear on the inside of the tyre.
Plus you have to really hack into coners to get the real grip.
I had the standard 15's on and even they caught on the inner arches.
I don't want to put you off because I managed to drive it like that for about three years as a daily driver before i got annoyed with the ride.
Also It does look really cool though and grips better than just about any other car on the road.
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l0rd
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| posted on 24/1/09 at 07:32 PM |
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I have aftermarket 15" alloys on mine. They are on 195/50/15 and they were supposed to be on 195/45/15.
The don't touch the inner arches now, but the front ones touch on my standard side skirts when i push the car when cornering just because of the
tyres size.
Now if i lower it, it might touch the arches, specially the front ones which means i might have to get a pair of front wings of a clio 16v or williams
as these had wider front arches.
[Edited on 24/1/09 by l0rd]
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l0rd
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| posted on 24/1/09 at 07:35 PM |
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I found a pair of camber adjuster bolts on K-Tec racing, a modified renault specialist but 2 bolts is 51 quid and i assume i need 4 for the wishbones.
100+ quid!!!
F**K sake the bolts are more expensive that the shocks and springs.
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dead sierra
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| posted on 24/1/09 at 08:10 PM |
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You can live with the large camber. When you steer into a fast corner, there is a breif period where you don't have a lot of grip and then all
of a suddern it grips. I got used to it but to cure it you probably need those bolts.
Another thing i found is the brake bias adjuster thinks you have loads of people in the back, so when I disabled the abs, the rear tended to lock but
with the abs on you couldn't tell.
I only use it for fun now a kind of miss the drive to work in it cos, although you may have double vision and a headache, you've had more fun on
your trip to work than anyone else!!
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