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Author: Subject: Air Rifles and the neighbour
ash_hammond

posted on 20/5/10 at 07:38 AM Reply With Quote
Air Rifles and the neighbour

Hi All.
Slightly off topic, but I understand there are some air gunners on this forum.
Recently my neighbour has started to give me grief about using my air rifle in my garden and it starting to get on my wick a little. He will insist on taking video evidence from his window every time I go out.
I far as I understand the law I am doing nothing wrong:

Itís a sub 12/LB gun with a silencer (its ultra quiet).

The pellets are going into a proper pellet catcher so they wonít ricochet.

Iím 15 meter from the centre of a public highway.

I have public liability insurance as a responsible air gunner should.

He is bothered about his children getting hit by a pellet ricocheting, fully understand his point Ė I donít go out when the children are playing and there is a 7 to 8ft fence between us. Iím not outside every 10 mins, just when I need to i.e. zero the scope.

A few questions I suppose:

Am I doing anything illegal? Iím going to make a phone to SYP to double check.

Is he allowed to just film me with a camera without my consent?

Should I keep the piece and not use the gun in the garden even though Iím not doing anything wrong?

Am I being unreasonable?

Open to views on this one Ė as I know the world has lots of different opinions on guns.

Ash

[Edited on 20/5/10 by ash_hammond]





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carpmart

posted on 20/5/10 at 07:48 AM Reply With Quote
Your not being unreasonable and you are doing nothing either 'wrong' or illegal.

He also is doing nothing wrong and is allowed to film you.

My only advice is don't fall out with the neighbors! It could detrimentally affect the value of your property as you have a duty to disclose to any prospective purchaser that you are 'in dispute' with a neighbor. It puts people off buying the house!





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karlak

posted on 20/5/10 at 07:51 AM Reply With Quote
No, it is not illegal.

I would make a pellet "backstop" behind the pellet catcher. Few bags of sand, bank of soil etc .. That type of thing.

If the Police come round you just need to show that you have taken as many precautions as possible. I would also make a double check on the power of the rifle - Really dont want it being checked and going slightly over.

If you are happy the gun is legal and you have done as much as possible to stop stray Pellets. Then I would simply invite him to ask the Police to come round. The other thing you could do is Shoot towards your own house - seems less intimidating to some.





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skinned knuckles

posted on 20/5/10 at 08:01 AM Reply With Quote
you are perfectly within your rights to do what you are doing. if you are concerned about him using his video camera on you then you are within you rights to video him videoing you. it would be a good idea to have him in camera on a few seperate occasions so that if anything where to go wrong during his filming and he presented his film to the police you could ask him to produce all the footage he has taken of safe gun usage. the fact that you have him filming you on several occasions would show he was withholding evidence. also people dont like being filmed so he may stop.......





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tony-devon

posted on 20/5/10 at 08:13 AM Reply With Quote
perfectly legal, best backstop I can suggest just for safety would be a concrete paving slab, upright, and angled downwards, thus directing any lead splash down, this is quiet, effective and will leave you with a small pile of lead that shold it be required, you can show to anyone that needs to see it, to proove containment of the pellets within your boundary

guns are my hobby and also play a part in my earnign a crust, so Im perfectly happy with them, however joe public arent so understanding.





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speedyxjs

posted on 20/5/10 at 08:27 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by karlak
If you are happy the gun is legal and you have done as much as possible to stop stray Pellets. Then I would simply invite him to ask the Police to come round. The other thing you could do is Shoot towards your own house - seems less intimidating to some.


Thats exactly what i wsa going to say





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tony-devon

posted on 20/5/10 at 08:40 AM Reply With Quote
have you chrono'd the rifle recently?

just to cover yourself





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blakep82

posted on 20/5/10 at 08:50 AM Reply With Quote
i'm pretty sure he's not supposed to film you without your consent





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woodster

posted on 20/5/10 at 09:14 AM Reply With Quote
just invite him to come round show him the gun and explain how you fire it and show him all your safety measures ..... and listen to his concerns you should be able to sort this out as adults ....... i used to have an air rifle as a kid people panic when they see something they don't understand
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UncleFista

posted on 20/5/10 at 09:56 AM Reply With Quote
It doesn't help that the police report any incident with air-rifles as a "firearms" incident. You now have to read the small print in the papers to find out what type of "firearm" has been used. It usually turns out to be a BB gun or air-weapon





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ash_hammond

posted on 20/5/10 at 10:18 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
i'm pretty sure he's not supposed to film you without your consent


Hi, Yes the gun was chrono'd 5 weeks ago at a constant 11.3 ft/lbs with a few acurpels.

Its an air arms s400 out of interest.

-- Ash





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MK9R

posted on 20/5/10 at 10:26 AM Reply With Quote
Have you got kids?? If so report him for filming your kids, that will get him off your case for a few years :p





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flak monkey

posted on 20/5/10 at 10:28 AM Reply With Quote
Yes you are well within your rights to do what you are doing. And it sounds like you are taking the necessary precautions.

You do need a good pellet trap as it is illegal for pellets to leave your land. But it sounds like you have this sorted anyway. I have always used a 2' paving slab, usually use 4, 1 back, 2 sides and a top then fill with sand at 45deg in the bottom and up the back.

I believe you can request he stops filming you as you are on provate land. I am no expert but I believe it is only legal to film without consent in a public place. If you are on private land then you can request that they stop filming on privacy terms.

Like woodster says I would try talking to him if you can. My neighbors are aware of my airgunning and dont have any problems with it.






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balidey

posted on 20/5/10 at 10:30 AM Reply With Quote
1: Maybe its his kids that want one, so they have been on and on at him, so he wants you to stop? Maybe invite his kids to come and have a little go?

2: If he's worried about ricochets and you are worried about him being nosey. The simple answer is..... BLOODY MASSIVE leylandii





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BenB

posted on 20/5/10 at 11:05 AM Reply With Quote
Otherwise just show him the squashies that have hit the trap. That'll soon reassure him. A wafer thin shred of lead isn't going to ricochet very far.

But yes, otherwise try putting the target in the middle of a concrete slab hut (or old fridge) as described. It would be a strange ricochet that went round corners....

You will struggle to get him on the photography. Unless there are special court orders you can film or photograph any private land from another bit of private land or public land. Persistant photography could be considered harrassment. And under the 'uman rights act 1998 the right to privacy is protected by Article 8 so you could try that one on for size....

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minitici

posted on 20/5/10 at 11:23 AM Reply With Quote
"Firing pellets beyond your boundary

It is an offence to fire an air guns pellet beyond the land where you have permission to shoot, unless the occupier of the neighbouring land has also given you permission. Where someone under 14 is shooting, both the young person and the supervising adult can be prosecuted.

It is also against the law, in England and Wales, to fire airguns within 50 feet of the centre of a highway if this results in someone being injured, interrupted or endangered. These offences could be committed, for example, when someone is shooting in their garden close to a road and the pellets ricochet onto the highway.

It is an offence in Scotland to discharge any gun in a culpable or reckless manner. This means shooting without caring about the safety of others.

If you want to practise on your own premises make sure that you have an effective backstop. Soft earth or chipboard is ideal, but donít use any hard, polished surface because it is likely to cause a dangerous ricochet or could cause the pellet to rebound and hit the shooter.

Remember that you can be prosecuted if any pellet goes beyond your land, whether it is directly fired or an accidental ricochet."

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skinned knuckles

posted on 20/5/10 at 11:27 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BenB
Otherwise just show him the squashies that have hit the trap. That'll soon reassure him. A wafer thin shred of lead isn't going to ricochet very far.

But yes, otherwise try putting the target in the middle of a concrete slab hut (or old fridge) as described. It would be a strange ricochet that went round corners....

You will struggle to get him on the photography. Unless there are special court orders you can film or photograph any private land from another bit of private land or public land. Persistant photography could be considered harrassment. And under the 'uman rights act 1998 the right to privacy is protected by Article 8 so you could try that one on for size....


from what i am aware, article 8 is a bit of a sticky one. by filming what he can see from his own property he is only documenting what he can see without having to take extreem measures to capture the video in a covert way. unless he plans to use this video in a way that invades your privacy (public display etc,) it is classed in law as no differently to keeping a diary of the activity in your garden, which he is entitled to do. he is also entitled to keep a photographic record of what he believes to be criminal activity if he intends to hand it to the police to be evidence against you. (i did however drop out of law school after 5 months because i was crap at retaining facts accurately) if you wish to use the human rights act in this one you would be better of quoting part II, The First Protocol, article 1 (the protection of property) which states that "Every natural or legal person is entitled to the peaceful enjoyment of his possessions. No one shall be deprived of his possessions except in the public interest and subject to the conditions provided for by law and by the general principles of international law."



HOWEVER continued filming in an overt fasion in an attempt to make you feel uncomfortable to get you to change your bevavoiur, when no laws are being broken can be seen as harassment and or antisocial behaviour and in extreem cases, intimadation.

it is my belief that the authorities will have no interest in this case so long as no-one actually points the weapon at the neighbour in question or at his property and you will just have to sort it out amongst yourselves like adults.

[Edited on 20/5/10 by skinned knuckles]





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MikeFellows

posted on 20/5/10 at 01:02 PM Reply With Quote
shoot him!






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carpmart

posted on 20/5/10 at 01:12 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MikeFellows
shoot him!


A little extreme?????





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morcus

posted on 20/5/10 at 01:54 PM Reply With Quote
Why is shooting towards your own house less threatening? I saw it twice and was curious.

Talk to him and explain to him that its all safe and legal and that your not going to stop just because he told you to. If the filming is bothering you ask him to stop, that way you can take it futher as harrasment as he is willfully and knowingly causing you distress.





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fesycresy

posted on 20/5/10 at 02:09 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MK9R
Have you got kids?? If so report him for filming your kids, that will get him off your case for a few years :p


Twisted and sick

But a good idea none the less, I'll have to remember this one





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karlak

posted on 20/5/10 at 02:57 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by morcus
Why is shooting towards your own house less threatening? I saw it twice and was curious.
.


It is always something that is recommended on the shooting forums. I guess that any stray pellets that miss a backstop will remain in your property and not cross boundaries. It is very difficult to advise as everyones gardens/boundaries are different.

I shoot in my Backgarden, 300ft long and so no bother, but would not do it if the neighbour was out adjacent. Just dont want the hassle really. I think the other option is to get some sound deadening material and place in the metal Pellet stopper, this will stop the "Plink Plink" which is what alerts most people to the shooting in the first place.

I would get very upset at being filmed though, if anyone did that and my children were in the Garden, there would be a call to the authorities sharpish. You cant even film your kids playing football anymore, for fear of upsetting someone else.





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britishtrident

posted on 20/5/10 at 03:26 PM Reply With Quote
I'm with the neighbour





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Jed

posted on 20/5/10 at 05:18 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by karlak
I think the other option is to get some sound deadening material and place in the metal Pellet stopper, this will stop the "Plink Plink" which is what alerts most people to the shooting in the first place.


I've used Plumbers Mait for this purpose in metal target holders and it has worked well. Quite cheap as well from the DIY stores.

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tomprescott

posted on 20/5/10 at 05:21 PM Reply With Quote
I'm with BritishTrident, there's a time and a place for shooting, and thats somewhere safe and secluded, not in a residential area.





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